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CAP_TURTLE
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Making Mushroom Compost
#18884112 - 09/24/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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When people refer to using mushroom compost for their gardens are they talking about using composted mushroom substrate or a special compost normally used for mushrooms but used for gardens instead? I bought 2 composters with the goal of composting all my waste substrate and I would like to find a good method/recipe to make it good so eventually maybe I can sell it or at least use it for my own gardens. I'm interested to hear what anyone knows on this........
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omegafaust
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
#18884133 - 09/24/13 09:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Most mushroom compost for sale has already been leached and used by mushrooms I beleive, so its not good for growing mushrooms.
However it is good for plants.
if you're looking for recipes utsf
search compost by user Agar. you should find everything you need.
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CAP_TURTLE
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: omegafaust]
#18884164 - 09/24/13 10:05 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah i'm not trying to make compost to grow on but rather for gardening. It would be interesting to learn both though and maybe grow some different strains in the future! Thanks for the tip though. Most of what i've been finding is 8 years old plus.
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liamtheloser
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
#18884381 - 09/24/13 10:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mushroom compost is the leftovers from manufacturing button and portobello mushrooms. The substrate they use to make button and portobello is composted manure and straw, so it is a good source of nitrates already. The mycelium breaks it down even further so it's great for plants.
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forrest



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composting is quite the art, it you want to do it aerobic without much loss of nitrogen. if it happens anaerobic, you get N2O and methane, and it gets sour. but aerobic it goes faster and environmentally friendly-er. by having the right C to N ratio you limit the loss of N to the air. if you also want to know how to compost your own feaces: the humanure handbook (downloadable on the internet). but why don;'t you just bury your used mushroomblocks in the garden for additional flushes? BTW, urine is perfect ferilizer, diluted 1-3 to 1-10
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CAP_TURTLE
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: forrest]
#18884675 - 09/24/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't have a garden yet lol I would like to start one but i have tons of spent blocks i have been throwing out back and i've had ppl ask me if I can get it so I figured I'd try to make some. I will post any good reads I find for other readers of this thread.
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cynical bastad
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
#18884749 - 09/24/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I tried to bury some out by the garden and these guy's were on it within hours. I'm guessing that'll be a nice place to plant next spring
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liamtheloser
Advanced Idiot

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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
#18884751 - 09/24/13 12:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't know if sawdust blocks would be the same as mushroom compost as far as being good for plants, maybe after being well composted in a compost pile, but not right away like a precomposted manure.
I bury all my spent substrates in my veggie garden, but it's more to get the extra flushes.
It's amazing, I get Cubensis popping up, 5 years later.
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FernandoCastro
Deus Impeditio Esuritori Nullus


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Quote:
liamtheloser said: I bury all my spent substrates in my veggie garden, but it's more to get the extra flushes.
I also bury mine (coffee+cardboard substrate) mainly for extra flushes:

A friend of mine also buries his blocks in his greenhouse garden.
He says that the plants from the inoc'ed beds have a more vigorous growth and don't have to be watered so often. He also claims that in the summer (30-35ÂșC), the mushrooms also benefit from the plants shade and it's the only way for him to grow oysters without additional hassle:

Last year's spring (2012), I made some experiments adding crumbled spent blocks to my asparagus sub:
Tray 1: seed + compost Tray 2: seed + compost + ~30% oyster crumbled sub
Results:
Tray 1 sprouted a week later than tray 2.
I went out during a weekend for a workshop and nobody watered the seedlings. When I returned, the soil from the trays without myc. were dried and plants were dead.
The ones with myc:

Some peppers:

They were transplanted and they got well until the summer "burnt" everything.
Since then, I've been adding oyster compost to every plant: whole block or crumbled. Never seemed to harm them and sometimes some extra mushrooms come along
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cynical bastad
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Very cool, i had buried them w/ the intentions of another flush, then the rolly pollies/sew bug's jumped on and it was a lost battle before i could flush them out and kill them. So it's been added to the compost.
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omegafaust
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All that 8 year old info is still valid. do not think it is outdated or useless.
we, humans, have been composting for thousands of years. the mechanisms behind the process are well documented.
Making compost, whether for your garden or mushrooms, is still the same process. however garden compost can have any organic matter in it and have little negative effect on the plants, where as a compost made of rotten veggies and manure may not be the best for cubensis.
there are literally thousands of ways to go about it. don't be afraid to give it a show.
you can't really mess it up that badly, and if you do, you cab use what you habe to restart a different pile.
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cynical bastad
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: omegafaust]
#18888401 - 09/25/13 09:08 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes sir, Thanks Omega! It's saved into my favorites! I have been experimenting w/ a compost pile this year, sunflower's are great to turn my area. Fixing to throw all my vines and plant's to the mix. A bit of ash and some fresh manure. I'll figure it out eventually.
Thanks
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



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If its possible run your vines over with a pushmower. the smaller the pieces the faster they compost. it is possible to achieve a fully composted pile in 14 days with this method.
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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forrest



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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: omegafaust]
#18888509 - 09/25/13 09:43 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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14 days? from start to finish? that doesn't sound realistic...
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: forrest]
#18888550 - 09/25/13 09:57 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The rodale institue was able to acheive 14. Day compost. and if you attempt it you sould know its possible. finely shredded material decomposes at an alarming rate.
but to satisy your non belief, here
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CDoQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fvric.ucdavis.edu%2Fpdf%2Fcompost_rapidcompost.pdf&ei=fwdDUoj-FsbF2AWNn4HADQ&usg=AFQjCNFhrMxpiYvIgdzLu3qzo6RuN6wvkw
Scientific document verifying that compost can be made in as little as 14 days. 18 being the average.
do some research next time.
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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forrest



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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: omegafaust]
#18888779 - 09/25/13 11:08 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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i said it doesn't sound realistic because usually they etimate one whole year for warm composting. and even when using a tumbler it would take probably 6 to 8 weeks. but you were right, it is possible, when you can control and monitor the C - N ratios, moisture content and heat. but in real-life for people that's not realistic. but it's nice to know a professor can.
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omegafaust
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: forrest]
#18888801 - 09/25/13 11:13 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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How is it not realistic.for average peopl. you can easily finr the c:n ratios of what your putting in, and anyone who makes compost properly does. as well as maintimg proper moisture and the like.
However most do not shred all materials and keep up with routine.
its very simple and anyone can do it. nothing special and no degree necessary. hell, people on here put more thought and effert into growing fungi than what is required to make 14 day compost.
your comments are spreading misinformation in the sense you make it sound unreasonable and difficult.
its quite the opposite.
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forrest



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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: omegafaust]
#18888898 - 09/25/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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how are you gonna regulate the C N ratios? i think it would be a coincidence if your waste would be in that composition, and how are you gonna measure it? every time you mow the lawn or have a spike in N waste, you have to have a lot of paper, sawdust or the like to keep the structure and composition right. maybe you are right, but people i speak to, who know a lot about composting tell me that it is quite the art to do it that well, conform the theory of ideal conditions, and even then they give longer composting times. i'm absolutely not trying to demotivate people from composting.
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: forrest]
#18888914 - 09/25/13 11:45 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Those people you speak of must not understand the science behind composting, which accoumts for their.assumption it takes longer
http://www.extsoilcrop.colostate.edu/Soils/powerpoint/compost/carbon_to_nitrogen_ratio.pdf
here is a list of the c:n ratios of.compostable materials.
all you need to do is calculate what amounts you need to arive at the proper c:n ratio.
Build your pile with those materials finely shredded and keep an eye on moisture, simple.
knowing when to gurn is based on heat and moisture.
i will say it again. its very simple and anyone can do it. of course the more you co it fhe better you get.
i no longer measure the carbom or.nitrogen, i know what i need and how much.
i have cold compost piles, hot compost piles, all from4x4x3-6x6x4.
And then I have my premade piles for quick composting.
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drake89
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: forrest]
#18889028 - 09/25/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
forrest said: how are you gonna regulate the C N ratios? i think it would be a coincidence if your waste would be in that composition, and how are you gonna measure it? every time you mow the lawn or have a spike in N waste, you have to have a lot of paper, sawdust or the like to keep the structure and composition right. maybe you are right, but people i speak to, who know a lot about composting tell me that it is quite the art to do it that well, conform the theory of ideal conditions, and even then they give longer composting times. i'm absolutely not trying to demotivate people from composting.
think outside the box my man. People have been studying this academically for decades now. There are tomes the size of the OED on compost science. I did a whole semester of independent study on the topic, and can tell you that I spoke with a company that manufactures an industrial sized composter that they claim will compost food waste in less than 72 hours. I think it's all about how you want to go about it. You don't have to do it so fast, and in 72 hours it still probably needs some 'curing', but there are button growers on here that make it for a living. Listen to them and open your mind, expel preconceived notions on how you think it has to work.
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cynical bastad
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: omegafaust]
#18889057 - 09/25/13 12:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
omegafaust said: If its possible run your vines over with a pushmower. the smaller the pieces the faster they compost. it is possible to achieve a fully composted pile in 14 days with this method.
Yes, i will throw them into the yard and fun them over a few times. This is too cool. I thought it was more of a year long process and that's why i just kind of threw thing's into the bin. I'm fixing to stir my cauldron and add a bit of this and that! Sounds like more fun that i was making it out to be. 
Is it possible to take my field clipping's that are pushed out of the way to dry, and mix in w/ my green fresh clipping's to get keep a big mix right? I do understand i can't just mow and put fresh clipping's in the bin every time by themselves.
Thanks man!
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omegafaust
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Adding to your pile will slow down its process.
dried grass still retains nitrogen, but yes it can be dried and added to fresh cut grass ro achieve a larfe pile.
however decomposition will be slow and the nitrogen will be used up quickly.
remember, the more stuff you put in, the better the compost. don't just use grass
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CAP_TURTLE
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: omegafaust]
#18889121 - 09/25/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm mainly looking to compost my spent substrate in the process but what to add is what I would like to know or what i can add and it still be good. Obviously extra yard wastes would be readily available. But what else? I'm also not under no time limit. I don't immediately need it but want to start making it and recycling my spent substrate rather than trashing it.
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
#18889137 - 09/25/13 12:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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SpeakSoftly
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: omegafaust]
#18889482 - 09/25/13 02:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Composting old mushroom subs makes some of the best crumbly forest floor compost around. I save 10 or more oyster straw logs that have already had 2-3 flushes to use as a base for my compost. Once I have a few spent subs ready to roll I start to layer my fresh pile with food scraps. Raw coffee grounds, fruit peels, veggie scraps, culled garden plants, farm animal manure if accessible, and shredded yard trimmings.
Large layer (4-6'') of dry material or old substrate which is the carbon, followed by a smaller layer (1-2'') of raw food scraps or manure (Nitrogen). I continue with this process until my pile is no less than 4x4x4'. You need to keep the pile moist after you've built a sizable amount, and turn the pile starting from the top to the bottom 1-2 times a week. You should notice a good amount of heat coming from the center of the pile when you turn it, if not your mix is wrong. I turn mine with a pitch fork and after about two piles, I'm spent.
I usually have nice compost after about 3 months, but know of a friend who makes his a lot more intensively that has crumbly compost after 28 days. There are a lot of different factors, like how often you turn the pile, size of the particles, moisture, C:N ratio, all of which determine the speed and nutrient profile of your compost. If you have too much N in the mix it will start to smell sour, so add some C.
I've just started to get the hang of composting and my last few batches have been killer. It took me about a year before I could make a good compost though. Just gotta practice.
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: SpeakSoftly]
#18889509 - 09/25/13 02:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Exactly, i love the idea if using logs as your carbon base. Genius!!
Everythung takes practice, but it isn't hard.
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drake89
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: omegafaust]
#18890756 - 09/25/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you want to get super heady with it, I'm going to be using my spent sub plus a dumptruck load of woodchips with about 500ft of 3/4" PEX in it, as a composting hot water heater. The hot water will feed radiators in my grow rooms.
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: drake89]
#18891099 - 09/25/13 08:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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That is cool as hell man!
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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SpeakSoftly
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: SpeakSoftly]
#18892743 - 09/26/13 05:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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That sounds great Drake, take the heating bill right out of the equation.
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CAP_TURTLE
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: SpeakSoftly]
#18893105 - 09/26/13 08:37 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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So spent substrate and wood chips will create compost?
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forrest



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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
#18893110 - 09/26/13 08:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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that is a really nice idea! if you have info to share on how you are gonna set it up, i'm very interested.
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: forrest]
#18893144 - 09/26/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm curious if it will compost as well. wood takes a lot of nitrogen to decompose, and spent substrates will need nitrogen as well. what is your nitrogen source going to be?
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drake89
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: omegafaust]
#18893386 - 09/26/13 10:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I got the idea from this homesteading book
It's called a jean pain mound, look it up there's some good videos on youtube with hot tubs and greenhouse heaters.
Quote:
forrest said: that is a really nice idea! if you have info to share on how you are gonna set it up, i'm very interested.
Most people use lots of PEX (plastic pipe) in a coil inside the pile, like 400-1000ft. I've been looking at metal plate heat exchangers, like plate chillers used craft brewing. I don't have any experience with them so I'm going to have to talk with someone first. On the inside I've been looking at axial fans and hot water radiator coils.
Quote:
CAP_TURTLE said: So spent substrate and wood chips will create compost?
should make dank compost, but I'm really more concerned about getting heat out of the pile.
Quote:
omegafaust said: I'm curious if it will compost as well. wood takes a lot of nitrogen to decompose, and spent substrates will need nitrogen as well. what is your nitrogen source going to be?
Well this is maybe why it's not 'great' compost. Most of the recipes I've seen are about 80-90% wood chips with some manure thrown in the mix, I guess as N source.
Wood may take a lot of N to decompose quickly, but for this purpose we want it to last a year or so. So 'low and slow' as they say.
They were getting 140F water at 1GPM up in the freezing vermont weather. I'm hoping to get 140 at 2-4GPM since I'll be recirculating it in a closed loop system.
again, sorry for threadjacking. I'll make a thread as soon as I get the ball rolling.
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CAP_TURTLE
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: drake89]
#18893490 - 09/26/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's not a thread jack when its on topic I was starting to feel it would be near impossible to make viable compost with limited ingredients. My used substrate will contain grain, straw, and sawdust/woodchips. I'm thinking add some grass for N and I'll be headed the right direction. Anyone know a good N:C target for my compost? I'm guessing I will have to get something to test it along the way and amend as needed.
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drake89
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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: CAP_TURTLE]
#18893721 - 09/26/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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25:1 C:N i think.
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omegafaust
mycofarmer



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Re: Making Mushroom Compost [Re: drake89]
#18894801 - 09/26/13 04:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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25(30):1 Is the sweet spot for garden compost
compost for mushrooms is a bit different I believe.
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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