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Offlinetarzan92
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Who is jesus?
    #18877656 - 09/22/13 07:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Jesus is love and if you believe in love more then hate you condemn yourself to eternal paradise


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: tarzan92]
    #18877677 - 09/22/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

He's dead. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineJamesSpawned
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: tarzan92]
    #18877706 - 09/22/13 08:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tarzan92 said:
Jesus is love and if you believe in love more then hate you condemn yourself to eternal paradise




con·demn
transitive verb \kən-ˈdem\ 

: to say in a strong and definite way that someone or something is bad or wrong

: to give (someone) a usually severe punishment

: to cause (someone) to suffer or live in difficult or unpleasant conditions

Strange terminology there, are you an atheist attempting to use some sort of sarcasm?


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Offlinetarzan92
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: JamesSpawned]
    #18877716 - 09/22/13 08:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

No I'm a christian using sarcasm


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OfflineJamesSpawned
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: tarzan92]
    #18877753 - 09/22/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Ah, I don't mean to be a grammar stickler. I was genuinely interested, statements regarding theology /religion are often vaguely phrased and so misinterpreted by the reader.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: tarzan92]
    #18878101 - 09/22/13 09:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

tarzan92 said:
Jesus is love and if you believe in love more then hate you condemn yourself to eternal paradise




Well, Christ means anointed, as with chrism, oil. It is symbolic of enlightenment in the Christian idiom. The "mind of Christ" is the ostensibly Logos, with which the Bible writes Jesus was identified with, especially according to John in his "I AM" statements. But, if you want to believe that a man was transmogrified into a being of light, and that image comforts you, believe what you will. But know that that story is just as mythological as every other transmogrification in the Bible, on the 'Mount of Transfiguration' with Moses and Elijah, with Enoch who "walked with God and was not, because God took him," the term being "translated," or, with Elijah in a whirlwind. These are words of myth and midrash, not metaphysics and definitely not of history. Midrash uses colorful language to express a spiritual principle, transmutation - transfiguration, translation, or theosis being the theological terms. Jesus, if he indeed existed in history, died at the hands of the Romans at the request of the Jewish Sanhedrin. Crucified criminals were usually buried in mass graves where they'd be eaten by dogs and jackals. Knowing this, the Biblical gospel authors contrived a nice new tomb hewn out of sandstone. Then there was more transmogrification of Jesus into a gardner or some unrecognizable person, and later in 'the upper room,' where he appears behind shuttered door and windows. Midrash and mythos has a lot to teach about transformations of consciousness, about inner subjective conditions.

Why is it that religious literalists alway see the other guy's religion as myth, but his religion as history? Must be some level prevalent of human nature. In their zeal to remain convinced, they must convince everyone around them. Other people's doubts only make them question their own, and such people want certainty. They don't want to question their beliefs lest they see through them. But seeing through a literal interpretation is the very beginning of truth. Childhood's illusions die, and like the Phoenix, a whole new adult faith can rise from its own ashes.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinetarzan92
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18878143 - 09/22/13 09:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Our god is a loving jesus


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: tarzan92]
    #18878530 - 09/22/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tarzan92 said:
Our god is a loving jesus




You are speaking for yourself. Y'shua ben Miriam is not God. God may be in Christ, but Y'shua/Iesous/Isa is not God. That is not even Christian theology any way you want to cut it. That is some homespun fundamentalist idolatrous language. God is without form as God is typically defined. Moreover, Iesous belongs to the planet Earth. Undoubtedly there are planets with life-forms that also go through these primitive mytho-religious states of development that we are all subject to, and God only knows what the saviors say, do, and look like on other worlds. Since nobody knows for sure, I am speculating, but given the number of stars in our galaxy alone (like 100 billion), and multiply 100 billion times 100 billion estimated galaxies, it seems reasonable to assume that we are not alone. To abjectly deny this possibility is just like the refusal to believe in a heliocentric solar system - that the Earth is the center of God's universe. BTW, it's tough to take seriously anyone who doesn't capitalize proper names. Just saying. :shrug:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinetarzan92
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18879075 - 09/23/13 02:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Are you a gnostic? Do you believe the bible interpreted correctly is the true living word of God? I'm a strong believer, an optimistic creator of opinion. I love life and am thankful for every moment i have. I enjoy be around intelligent people who know how to apply their knowledge in a way that will benifit and build. I read the bible very often, its my manual to live correctly by, my nourishment and my solid ground. If you are interested in having a debate I'll try that but since your a different person that means we each have a unique perspective and that's what gives us our individuality which is truly exceptional.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: tarzan92]
    #18879512 - 09/23/13 07:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I've never seen you debate, that would be interesting. :whoa:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: tarzan92]
    #18880122 - 09/23/13 11:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not interested in debating a Gnostic perspective against an adherent of Sola Fide. Most people confuse faith with belief. I have faith in Ultimate Reality (a philosophical way of saying 'God' without the baggage), but I reject all doctrines and dogmas. Instead, I focus exclusively on the development of Agapé (a more precise way of saying 'disinterested compassion,' without using the degraded English word 'love'). If more people took this tack, the Christian-Muslim dialogue would move from debates about their respective mythologies (e.g., Christ WAS crucified, Christ WASN'T crucified, Christ was the Messiah, Christ was a prophet, etc.) to a focus on Agapé -
"God is Agapé" and "Allah the Compassionate, the Merciful," would be in agreement, not at loggerheads. This is my personal approach, and my hope for the world. The mind divides, Being unites. Debate is mental masturbation that results in naught. Meditation - dwelling in Being results in harmony which is agreement at THE most fundamental level. But alas, humanity remains retarded. Us and them, right and wrong, my God can beat up your God, love God MY way or as Achmed the Dead Terrorist says,"I kill you!" "I kill your family! Infidel!" And, by the same token, fundamentalist Christian are equally as bigoted as fundamentalist Muslims. No difference. And so, when I do discover a religious bigot a this forum, I summarily dispatch them to my Ignore List.

If a fundamentalist Christian tries to hard to squeeze their understanding of Reality into the Procrustean bed of dogma, they become delusional, psychotic. I knew a man for years who insisted that Revelations was infallibly correct about stars falling to Earth at the end of the world. I tried to tell him that the Greek word aster, as in asteroid (or *asterisk*) DOES make sense as an end of the world possibility, but that stars can't 'fall' and the Earth is a grain of sand compared to a beach-ball sized star. His response was that "Maybe the Sun is the size of a basketball, but God puts some kind of force field around it to make it look much bigger." This is delusional thinking, and that guy epitomized fundamentalist Christianity for me. He also was jealous of me, coveted my then girlfriend (he was a married man), and he tried to pick a fist-fight with me at our school site.

I am going to length here to explicate where I'm coming from, so if you fit in with the mainstream indoctrinated multitudes of Christianity, please don't reach out to me. I've had more Bible study than you can imagine, and doubtless, more than you have, before I came to conclusions my faith AND my reason could agree with. I enjoy mythology immensely, and I derive much in the way of guidance from myth. But I will NOT debate or in any way engage delusional thinking, which, btw, I am pre-eminently qualified to assess by virtue of decades of being a mental health professional. My first criteria for making such an assessment is the adamant refusal of Christians, so-called, to even consider that they have been reading myth and midrash as history. Those who figuratively (or literally) put fingers in their ears, and refuse to listen to reason, are relegated to the Ignore List. You cannot reason with a psychotic, even a socially sanctioned psychotic, which is what literal believers qualify as IMO.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinetarzan92
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18880205 - 09/23/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I agree debating is pointless I have no interest to attention to trample your faith based system. I would like to ask you some questions though


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: tarzan92]
    #18882425 - 09/23/13 09:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tarzan92 said:
I agree debating is pointless I have no interest to attention to trample your faith based system. I would like to ask you some questions though




I'll always answer a question sincerely asked.


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Offlinetarzan92
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18882584 - 09/23/13 09:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Do you believe in life forever or death forever?


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: tarzan92]
    #18882845 - 09/23/13 10:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tarzan92 said:
Do you believe in life forever or death forever?




Eternal LIGHT.



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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinetarzan92
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18882854 - 09/23/13 10:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Is avoiding the question a must for you?


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OfflineJamesSpawned
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: tarzan92]
    #18882891 - 09/23/13 11:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Must your question be posed as an absolute? Obviously his beliefs cannot be confined to such a narrow channeling of ultimatums.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: tarzan92]
    #18882916 - 09/23/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tarzan92 said:
Is avoiding the question a must for you?




No. You set up a linguistic multiple choice game. Ultimate Reality utterly transcends your 0 or 1 categories. The individual dies, the eternal lives. Light symbolizes transcendental Reality which contains yet transcends both life and death. Christians would ask, 'if Jesus is the Logos, and the Logos dies, how come the universe does't cease to exist?' Because Jesus, like the rest of us, incorporates both life and death. The individual perishes, Being remains. My cells are living and dying even now. Catastrophic cellular death will occur and all my cells will die. I will be cremated. The Being that 'I' drew life and existence from continues eternally. I am temporal and eternal. The temporal dies in time, the Eternal in me is Eternal. The individuality is temporal, it perishes. Being remains.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinetarzan92
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18882970 - 09/23/13 11:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Thank you for sharing your insight, i have no more questions


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InvisibleCOOKED101
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Re: Who is jesus? [Re: tarzan92]
    #18883067 - 09/23/13 11:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tarzan92 said:
Jesus is love and if you believe in love more then hate you condemn yourself to eternal paradise




I've surrounded my life with love and I feel its all I need internally, but I have no connection with
Jesus but life does feel like paradise because its within me. Love the love:peace:


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