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OfflineApJunkie
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Re: How much would it cost to get a functional homebrew setup up and running? [Re: barong]
    #18880306 - 09/23/13 12:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

barong said:
Chiller ? Sorry, there's a reputable no-chill method that has also been pioneered by Australian brewers using an oxygen-free cube.

Enjoy your 'instant beer' approach, and I'll stick to actually brewing.

All the best, MasterChef.






Chilling the beer after the boil is a very important part of the brewing process for many reasons. It's weird that you're so up in arms about extract brewing but then you're totally in favor of cutting corners and taking weird routes for the rest of the brew day.


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InvisibleOeric McKenna
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Registered: 06/15/12
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Re: How much would it cost to get a functional homebrew setup up and running? [Re: ApJunkie] * 2
    #18880705 - 09/23/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Omfg with the Prego jar!.
  See, Prego isn't the only sauce you can buy, you can still purchace quality sauce from Italy made by people who do care. 
  If this is your first time making pizza, I'd also suggest ready made sauce while you learn how to BAKE.
  What's your problem exacltly?
You think pizza crust isn't "properly" baked unless you mill your own flour?

Are you malting your own grains? Growing your own hops??
Oh hey, do you use priming sugar at bottling?
Guess that's not "proper" ? 

  Brewing is definitely a hobby where you find snobs regularly.
The snob act doesn't make your beer any better tasting one bit. 

I'd honestly love to challenge you to a brew off where you use all grain and I use only "Improper" extracts.
        Personally, I usually only take it as far as partial mash these days because I work a lot and don't always have 6 hours to kill with a full grain mash.
  I don't see the problem, and the term "improper" never crossed my mind.

You wanna mash your own grains? good for you, I'm all for it
Wanna use pre made malts?  who gives a shit really

Hey, tell me you're culturing your own yeasts and you can have a pat on the back!

All you're doing is soaking grains someone else malted!
You've literally done NOTHING else from scratch.
    Climb oln down off that high horse


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Registered: 10/31/04
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Re: How much would it cost to get a functional homebrew setup up and running? [Re: Oeric McKenna]
    #18881152 - 09/23/13 03:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Oeric McKenna said:
Yeah but if you're brand new you might get overwhelmed and quit. Fermenting anything is brewing, be it white sugar or whatever else. The extract is made by professional maltsters and available in a million styles. Knocking it is a bit snobbish too.

When someone is asking "how do I get started" I think its kind of a lot to throw all grain brewing at them.  Sure, diving in to the advanced brewing is an option, but so is starting basic. 
  I gave the advice I wouldve wanted personally if I were him. Lets not argue about it ehh?




With all due respect, and I know I have been a "bit snobbish" on here, all grain isn't hard at all.  And, it can be anything from a little, to a lot cheaper than extract.  Extract is the skim milk powder approach.  Hard to dissolve, expensive, and frankly tastes bad.

DME is hard to get into solution, and expensive. I am not sure I understand the attraction, although I use it routinely for a priming sugar.  Boil water, add with DME in mason jar, shake, cool, and add to batch for carbonation.


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Invisiblebarong
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Re: How much would it cost to get a functional homebrew setup up and running? [Re: Oeric McKenna]
    #18881282 - 09/23/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What a load of crap. You're just trying to show some oneupmanship because youre balls deep in this stupid justification that extract beer making = the quality of all grain brewing


Quote:

Oeric McKenna said:
  See, Prego isn't the only sauce you can buy, you can still purchace quality sauce from Italy made by people who do care.





Quote:

Oeric McKenna said:
Are you malting your own grains? Growing your own hops??
Oh hey, do you use priming sugar at bottling?
Guess that's not "proper" ?




What a stupid response. Let's look at how the commercial craft breweries operate. For the most part, they do not malt their grain, nor grow their hops. The did not create the sunshine, nor do they only brew in winter snow, to avoid using glycol chillers. Do they have metalworkers to bang out their breweries. I don't prine with sugar, but keg, so in your defensive rhetoric, you could say that I'm not using oak barrels and natural fermentation,old English style, that this compares to extract vs all grain also, right.
Your hyperbole is laughable.

Quote:

Oeric McKenna said:
  Brewing is definitely a hobby where you find snobs regularly.
The snob act doesn't make your beer any better tasting one bit.


 

Well, there's brewing, and there's making beer. You seem to be ignoring the fundamental difference.


Quote:

Oeric McKenna said:
I'd honestly love to challenge you to a brew off where you use all grain and I use only "Improper" extracts.




We don't need to, it happens at every competition. Well, not the backwoods Rodeo, Knitting & Brewing Fairs that you might enter, where that drunkard, old Father Bill from the local church stands in as the honorary judge. I'm talking about BJCP sanctioned tournaments, with qualified judges. Of which incidentally I am one, so I can tell you first hand that countless instances that samples can be determined as extract brews without prior knowledge. Partials not so much.

Quote:

Oeric McKenna said:
        Personally, I usually only take it as far as partial mash these days because I work a lot and don't always have 6 hours to kill with a full grain mash.




And good for you, if that's what suits you. I'm not saying that you shouldn't make beer in this way. The discussion here is that you think new people to the hobby will find it too hard to get straight into all grain. I'm giving the OP and others the benefit of empowering them with the belief that it's really not necessary to start off making inferior beer.

Quote:

Oeric McKenna said:
All you're doing is soaking grains someone else malted!




A'ha, here lies the issue. You don't actually understand brewing science. If you did, you wouldn't make such a silly statement as if that's all there is to it.


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Invisiblebarong
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Re: How much would it cost to get a functional homebrew setup up and running? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #18881296 - 09/23/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
With all due respect, and I know I have been a "bit snobbish" on here, all grain isn't hard at all.  And, it can be anything from a little, to a lot cheaper than extract.  Extract is the skim milk powder approach.  Hard to dissolve, expensive, and frankly tastes bad.

DME is hard to get into solution, and expensive. I am not sure I understand the attraction, although I use it routinely for a priming sugar.  Boil water, add with DME in mason jar, shake, cool, and add to batch for carbonation.




In Oeric McKenna's defense, I think he is talking about high quality LME, not DME.

Dry extract is NASTY for making an entire beer out of. Liquid, or syrup, extract, is manufactured in a different manner, and there are a fairly good range of variables available.

Leave the DME for making petri dishes and yeast starters (and priming)


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OfflineMush4Brains
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Re: How much would it cost to get a functional homebrew setup up and running? [Re: barong]
    #18881436 - 09/23/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Ok guys, I get it.  This was more controversial than I thought it would be.

I'm looking to avoid kits, etc, as for the most part buying everything together for convenience is going to cost you more.  I want to get my own setup, for cheap, even second hand if necessary.


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Invisiblebarong
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Re: How much would it cost to get a functional homebrew setup up and running? [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18881579 - 09/23/13 05:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

hehe. We are getting a long way from helping you, so sorry about that.  I suppose most of this is a bit foreign to you. In a nutshell:

All Grain: Making beer similar to how the craft breweries do. Consider that this will take at least 4 hours per batch.

Extract: Making beer using cans of syrup, with a consistency of honey, you add some boiling water to dissolve, top up with hot water, maybe do a small boil of hops. Consider that this will take you about 1 hour per batch. 

IMO you should start looking out for a cheap fridge, because one of the most important keys to a great home made beer (AG or Ext, same rules apply) is controlling the temperature in which your batch ferments. Any crappy old fridge will do, combined with a thermostat switching controller - check out the STC-1000 link below. This acts as both a heating & cooling switch, so you can be covered all year round (ie it will switch on your fridge if it gets too warm, or switch on a heater belt of it gets too cold). You need some basic electrical knowledge to wire it up, or get a sparky mate to do it - this is a mains voltage device, so if you doubt your ability here, please get someone else to do it

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Digital-STC-1000-All-Purpose-Temperature-Controller-Thermostat-Aquarium-w-Sensor-/310438267361

Also as important is sanitisation. Cleanliness is essential, but as youre a shroomery member Im hoping you already think about these things. A Tub of unscented oxyclean type product (contains sodium percarbonate) and a bottle of iodofor (an iodine based sanitiser) is all you need.


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InvisibleOeric McKenna
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Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 5,318
Loc: Babylon Flag
Re: How much would it cost to get a functional homebrew setup up and running? [Re: barong]
    #18881662 - 09/23/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Balls deep in the defense. yes, you nailed it, that's what happened pretty much either way.  If someone believes in their words, they stand by them afterward.

I like bleach water, for soaking gear/bottles. cheap, easy, works great

Oh and I do understand brewing science.
  I'm gonna let this go either way man.  no sense regurgitating


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