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InvisibleJohn
ssdp.org

Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 7,026
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Christanity
    #1888114 - 09/06/03 11:31 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

This was one of my replies to a discussion in OTD. Sorry to drag OTD into this forum but I think I made fairly good points. The situation was a few members of the shroomery joined a christian forum and they banned everyone of us in under ten mins. BTW no mentions of drug use or direct blasphamny, harassment, or explicit language was used.

FROM OTD:

What I don't understand is why they completly terminate you, if you post any diffrence of opnion, just think if a christian came here and started to post how he thought drugs are bad and tried to help convert our souls, I don't think the mods. here would ban him in under ten minutes. Drug users have more open minds, and if someone dosn't agree so be, it's good to debate topics. This further proves that christianity is brainwashing bullshit. They are afraid I might make some of there members question there faith, and realize the how the bible contridicts itself in many ways, and no they can't have that, it's there way or the highway bitch, and if you don't like it they tell you to fuck off. If they truly had complete faith in god they would have no problem debating theroy with me, but instead they just ban me. I believe that is very cult like, to seperate yourself for everyone who disagrees with you, and label them as infidels that will be damned in hell for eternity. What a load of shit I think. Thats what I meant by weak minded B_O_9, my post were not directed at any group of followers as you stated earlier. We are not as close minded. I have friends that don't use drugs, and I don't pressure them to do drugs, actually thats cool that they do their own thing. But christian are directed not to associate themselves with non-believes and if they do it is there duty to make them follow there ways. Do you see my point now?

And here was an e-mail I sent to them asking why I was banned:

I mean sure everyone has there diffrence of opnions, thats what forums are for. As a fellow christian you should welcome others with open arms, even if there opnions differ from yours. I have been registered for less than ten minutes and you disable my account? The bible teachs to witness to all, not block everyone that has slightly diffrent opnions than others. I just want to be at a place with my fellow brothers and sisters in the lord and you closed the door in my face. I do not believe jesus would turn away anyone and I don't think your setting a good example for a christain site. Please respect my diffrent point of views and let me continue to be part of your wonderful community.
May the lord have mercy on your soul.

I am not a christian myself, but found it intersting to debate these topic, with the believer, but instad of debating they just ban me. I think this is rediculious, and would love to here your opnions on this matter. The point of this is not to start a religious flame war, I was just instred in other opnions on how they handled that situation.



--------------------
There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Christanity [Re: John]
    #1888123 - 09/06/03 11:36 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

So, what did they send back to you?

A few Christians really have their own beliefs and are not afraid of others beliefs, but most are completely close-minded and so forth.. this just goes to show..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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InvisibleJohn
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Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 7,026
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Re: Christanity [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1888136 - 09/06/03 11:45 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

They never replied and went so far as to block all of my e-mails too. I was actually in a good meaningfull conversation with one of them then a mod, killed my account. My post was on the etchics of masturbation, and was asking if god considered self gratification a sin. I didn't say "yeah I fucking jack my dick 2x a day is this wrong?" It was very easy going post, no immaturity was in it, it was a valid question. In the bible it says nowhere thou shall not flog the dolphin every now and again, and alot of christians say it's wrong. All I was asking for was refrence to a bible verse that said it was wrong, though I counld care less, I thought I'd give those bible thumpers some home work.


--------------------
There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.


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InvisibleJohn
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Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 7,026
Loc: Vancouver, B.C.
Re: Christanity [Re: John]
    #1888143 - 09/06/03 11:47 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't use the term 'flog the dolphin' either


--------------------
There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.


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Anonymous

Re: Christanity [Re: John]
    #1888145 - 09/06/03 11:48 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

well, don't speak for everyone because i was not banned. probably because i didn't insult them, i just engaged in respectful discourse about a meaningful topic. we are currently still debating it. its titled "War" in the Morality and Ethics section.


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InvisibleJohn
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Re: Christanity [Re: ]
    #1888150 - 09/06/03 11:49 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

How was my post insulting????


--------------------
There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christanity [Re: John]
    #1888191 - 09/06/03 12:12 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

How did you identify yourself - as Alchemist ? (I'm a Christian, and my car [which finally died yesterday] has a license plate that reads ALCHEMY, but it sounds heretical to lots of people, or magickal). Did you do a spelling/grammatical error check? Lots of very uptight, prissy people will simply ignore your post and think you're sloppy or stupid because they can't read the intention behind the surface imperfections. You told them you were not a Christian, and that you wanted to debate. In classical times, such debates were called 'apologias,' and engaged the greatest philosophical minds of the day like the pagan philosopher Plotinus whose work influenced much of Catholic Christianity. Today however, you'd just be an unlettered upstart that those mods don't have the patience to deal with. They probably just want to luxuriate in their own little bubble of smug like-believers, feeling superior to everyone and falsely believing that they are God's chosen people while everyone else is damned.

BTW - This is not what real Christians are like, no matter how well they attempt to identify themselves as Christians. The KKK call themselves a White Christian Fraternal Organization, and their insignia contains 'a drop of Christ's blood' inside a Maltese cross. Crosses are not burned, they are 'illuminated.' There is not anything Christian about KKK hatemongers. There is little that is Christian about lazy, selfish, self-proclaimed 'Christians' like the ones you were dissed by. Forgetaboutit.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Christanity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1888863 - 09/06/03 06:13 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

So, is there a biblical verse? :grin:

I no longer do it, in the interest of actually taking effort into finding a girl..

It was also basically a form of an addiction, I guess, and it is all about the strength of mind. So, like yeah, anyways... hehe
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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OfflineJhadAgainstReality
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Re: Christanity [Re: fireworks_god]
    #1888906 - 09/06/03 06:30 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

there are actually forums for 'apologetics', where people pose questions debating various things about christian beliefs, along with chatrooms and websites devoted to such debates. personally i think you'd be better off finding one of these than crashing a forum just to fuck with people. or maybe that wasnt you, maybe that was somebody else, but i remember somebody went out of their way to crash a christian forum and make an ass of themselves. either way, theres a place for questions about shit like that.


--------------------
"Listen Bush, i dont have any weapons. are you listening asshole? i dont have any fucking weapons! whats your problem, you fucking prick? Do you, like, WANT to go to war or something?! hey! whats all that laughter? whats so fucking funny?! Bush? BUSH! *click* Hello? HELLO?"


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Offlinetitan_shroomer
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Re: Christanity [Re: JhadAgainstReality]
    #1889283 - 09/06/03 09:18 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

love them any way


--------------------
fuk the police
-NWA

im not an anarcist im a FREEDOM fighter
-Me

God damn it i dont like this brain i want a new one.
-Me

nothing happens till it moves
-Eistien


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InvisibleJohn
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Registered: 08/08/03
Posts: 7,026
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Re: Christanity [Re: titan_shroomer]
    #1889592 - 09/06/03 11:17 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't go in there with 'alchemist' as a title or anything else drug related for that matter. I didn't say I do not belive in god or his teachings, I just wanted to slowly fit in then start questioning there beliefs, not attacking them, just showing them a diifrent side of things. I used proper grammar and everything, it seems they need to protect there impressionable minds, form hearing anything deamed slightly off the beaten path, like they are afraid I would show a diffrent side of things, and make them question the integerity of there relegion. I think if they were truly devoted and faithful to there beliefs they would have no problem debating with me.


--------------------
There's a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it.


Edited by jtryptamine (09/06/03 11:22 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christanity [Re: John]
    #1889672 - 09/06/03 11:53 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I wasn't there, but normalcy is never determined by mere numbers. Look at Nazi Germany. A vast majority either joined or supported the Third Reich. Relative to the rest of the world, Nazi Germany was as psychopathic as humanity can become, yet they were a statistical 'norm.'

Real Christians may not be as few as the Enlightened beings that Buddhism cynically affirms (when my '90 Miata's transmission seized yesterday in the right exit turn lane, and I couldn't even roll or push it onto the shoulder, a semi-literate Haitian man stopped and offered me his cell phone, which was great since I don't have one (yet). I offered to send him a check out of gratitude, but he said that his reward was a heavenly one from Jesus, and refused to accept payment. This kind of thing has happened before - non-acceptance of money and driving on to phone assistance to me from a pay phone, from a guy who pulled over at night by the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel with a joint and a beer - on All Saints Day!) People like this are a blessing when they appear, and their perfect altruism is the mark of God's Compassion in them, whether they know it or not. These are the kind of human beings through which Christ operates, and who are immediate answers to my own prayers, howsoever mundane this may sound. Superiority-loving people who call themselves Christians may not be Klansman or Nazis, but ontologically speaking, they are not Christians either. They are arrogant a**holes who think that being a Christian is cool, or perhaps 'The Way' [to be], which it is IMHO, but they affirm it for the wrong reasons. They only talk 'about' it, they do not embody and live it.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Christanity [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1889906 - 09/07/03 01:31 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Christianity has a good side. At one time it was a religion which promoted compassion and tolerance, love for our neighbours and such things. Over time, Christian mythology began to degrade. These days, many children have to stifle their chuckles when they're told of golden streets and pearly gates. Square peg, round hole. People change.

I believe that humans today are certainly more complex creatures than 2000 years ago when Christ walked. Christianity, which has had it's stranglehold on the civilized world now for hundreds of years, can no longer accomodate the weight of basic human awareness. Christian myths are becoming a bit more like fairy tales in the public eye. Even some clerics will tell you that it's not about heaven and hell, God and Satan or any such things, only about leading an ethically sound life.

If being a Christian to you means following the teachings of Christ, then you command from myself and others only the most utmost respect.

Many Christians, though, call themselves such because they have put stock in the concepts of angels and demons, dark spirts and trumpets. These are some of the most paranoid people around. You can see with your eyes how much they struggle to keep it together. Clearly, there is some deeper essence of themselves which refuses to accept these ideas. There are a few of these people in my life. They smoke a lot of cigarettes.

And so when it comes to our conduct with Christians, it's not fair to lump them into one category. Granted, Christianity as a whole has exerted what many would agree with to be a very negative influence on our growth and development as a race. This has nothing to do with Jesus or the Church, and everything to do with the self-serving sociopaths whom have seized control of both. Had it not been Christianity that became warped and convoluted as a means of confining population sects into habits motivated by fear, it would have been another faith. Thankfully, this one is losing a lot of ground every day.

My opinions.


--------------------


:poison: Dark Triangles - New Psychedelic Techno Single - Listen on Soundcloud :poison:
Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Christanity [Re: Ped]
    #1890717 - 09/07/03 12:57 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

You'll get no argument from me, BUT...the myths of Christianity are archetypal - they are rooted in the very warp and woof of the human psyche: the birth of consciousness from the unconscious maternal-material-matrix (Adam & Eve); Good and Evil; mortality/immortality; space-time/Infinity-Eternity; Transcendence; suffering; meaning; self-sacrifice/love, etc., etc.

I'll tell you this - you don't pull down a 19th century, turretted, Victorian mansion with stained glass windows and multiple carved mantlepieces in order to build a 7-11. The archetypal forms of Christianity are alive and well, but the moronic, multi-tasking-cell-phone-yapping-narcissistic-anti-intellectual people who have come to populate the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave refuse to find this treasure in themselves. They are like the adolescent idiots who do B&E's in Miami, stealing a VCR or a TV and leaving a 19th century Tibetan-Nepalese bronze sitting there. The "public eye" as you put it is corrupted with cataracts and astigmatisms - there are areas of darkness and areas of distortion. The masses gorge themselves on cheap, toxic excuses for food, making themselves ill in the process. Do they know or care about what they're doing to themselves? If you don't care about yourself ('Love thy neighbor as thyself') how the hell would anyone expect them to care about anyone else - society? If you can't feed your body or mind properly, how can spiritual food even come under consideration?

I want to refurbish Christianity, but I wish to do so humbly, only within the edifice of my own personhood. I have no grandiose dreams of reformation, or the formation of my own church (or cult). The world IS going to Hell just as it has been prophesied. It has gone to Hell before in days ancient (Roman Empire) and modern (Nazism, USSR). I am attempting to be 'in the world' without being 'of the world,' and when I have to identify myself to someone as a Christian, I do so with trepidation - not because I am ashamed, but because I really do not want to be immediately misunderstood and misidentified, and treated accordingly.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Invisibleenacid
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a [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #1892247 - 09/07/03 11:39 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

a


Edited by enacid (08/16/08 02:19 PM)


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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Christanity [Re: enacid]
    #1892613 - 09/08/03 01:38 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I think there are alot of politics and ego involved in all religious interpretations, and how they passdown beleifs etc...

there are quite a bit of variations of the bible, some contredicting each other...

"Ped" Said: "Christianity has a good side. At one time it was a religion which promoted compassion and tolerance, love for our neighbours and such things. Over time, Christian mythology began to degrade."

I totally agree... The christian "Crusades" where they went abroad to slaughter anyone non-christian is very far from Jesuses teaching of loving thy neighbor, not judging, compassion, wisdom, etc.

I beleive all religions and spiritual worship have the same intentions of compassion, love and wisdom... they say you become what you worship...so all of the deity's and saints represent truth to the people...

when you do alot of reading on Christianity, Hinduism, the koran, tibetan teachings and buddhism.... You see strikingly similar teachings, within all of them... I've found that decyphering out the B.S. is easy when you compare the teachings of saints and whatnot to words out of a bible... some people take snipits out of context, from the bible to twist it to better fit them... But you know that Jesus did not want anyone to lead "Crusades" when he talks only about selfless compassion towards all

so in conclusion I dance around the aboriginal holy fire and offer a sacred bundle to the yagna while bowing to the cross, om, star of david, and all religious symbols devized out of love & light.


--------------------
I&I


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OfflinePedM
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Re: Christanity [Re: enacid]
    #1893462 - 09/08/03 11:03 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I meant not to focus on the positive side of Christianity while ignoring what's negative, only to dissociate the positive from the negative. The only bridge between the two is the word "Christianity", a word which in itself has no connection to the perennial.

The objective of religious practice is most often to shed attached conditioning and therefore discover the underlying insights of Self and Universe (1). At the heart of all religious ideology is a common philosophy of love, acceptance, compassion, tolerance, and a certain spontaneous wisdom. This implies a transformation of our relationships, the way we relate to eachother, and the way we relate to ourselves. If there is a transformation within a person, that person is no longer swayed by the expectations of any form of conditioning. Therefore, any major religion is challenging the way our institutionalized society expects things to be. When an institutionalized society adopts a religious practice, it then becomes merely another form of conditioning (2).

Put simply, in as much a religious practice can become attached conditioning, then that religious practice can block personal transformation.

The word "person" comes from the ancient Greek word "persona". The Greeks originally used the word in the field of drama, when a mask was used by the actors. The mask itself was called the "persona", or "that through which the sound passes through." And so the word "persona" implies a mask, a character. Similarly, our personalities are only an expression of the conditioning bonded to us by the particular environment in which we were raised. There is a side to being human which is deeper than that expression. Just as an actor takes on a persona, a human being takes on a personality (3).

Compassion is the central component of spiritual transformation. When a personality is transcended, there comes with it a sense of oneness with all of humanity (4), and therefore a persistent sense of indiscriminate acceptance of everyone. Normally, no matter what our particular form of conditioning is, we are told that we are separate from others. "My family", "My country", "My religion", "My race", "My sex", whatever it is that we identify with is only an expression of "Me". To have a great sense of compassion indicates a break from that conditioning, and a leap toward profound other-centeredness. Whether it be called salvation, enlightenment, or awakening, every major religion has this objective at it's core.


(1) "How shall I grasp it? Do not grasp it. That which remains when there is no more grasping is the Self." - Panchadasi

(2) "Organized religion, with it's beliefs, dogmas and rituals, denies open access to the vastness of the human mind." - Krishnamurti

(3) "In pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired. In pursuit of Tao, every day something is dropped." - Lao Tsu

(4) "He makes the sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and the unjust." - Jesus



--------------------


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Gyroscope full album available SoundCloud or MySpace


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OfflineClover
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Re: Christanity [Re: Ped]
    #1893515 - 09/08/03 11:29 AM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I believe that today's Christianity (read: NOT CHRISTIANITY AS IT WAS ORIGINALLY INTENDED) is a way of shirking the responsibility of your own actions onto the shoulders of some mythic underworld devil. Ah, but it is so much easier on the will to say "the devil made me do it". What enlightenment is there in such a belief?


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



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OfflineRastafari
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Re: Christanity [Re: Clover]
    #1893850 - 09/08/03 01:05 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

I think that when you beleive in an eternal hellfire pitt... you get kind of weird...and some people have done that these days... you identify yourself with making mistakes, and therefor you figure your going to hell (ie. continue doing even worse deeds)


rather than all other religions (including original christianity) which teach that there is no "sin" there is only "obstacles we create for ourselfs" ie. we will be forgiven of our sins by reeping what we sew... all waves we send out must come back to the shore

so if we lose our identity as a mistake maker and wrong doer, we can learn from the mistakes and correct our actions and follow the footsteps of those who do right (saints etc) sitting on we ass and saying im going to hell anyways doesnt accomplish much


--------------------
I&I


Edited by Rastafari (09/08/03 01:08 PM)


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OfflineClover
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Re: Christanity [Re: Rastafari]
    #1894123 - 09/08/03 02:28 PM (13 years, 5 months ago)

Instilling guilt and fear are amazing tools to gain power over people....


--------------------
"Those sweet excesses I do adore."



Edited by Clover (09/08/03 02:29 PM)


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