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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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How Frank makes a 50/50+ casing layer (with jiffy mix) * 14
    #18880716 - 09/23/13 01:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I've been meaning to post this for a while but had no pictures. Now with a half-dozen PE tubs on the way, I have plenty of time for showing how I case a tub.



Quote:

Gretchenmeister said:
Casings do this:

1. Protect colonized substrate from drying out.
2. Provide a microclimate favorable for primordia formation.
3. Provide moisture for mushroom growth.
4. Promotes stimulation of pinning by signaling mycellium it is out of nutrition and time to reproduce.






Let's get this out of the way first...

This is about how to make and apply a casing layer. This casing layer can be used for most species but I will be discussing cubes in this thread. I don't want this thread to become a debate about whether or not cubensis benefits from a casing layer. Please stay on topic.

:thanx:



Now let's get started!

There are a lot of different types of casing layers, this is about 50/50+

This is roughly 50% peat moss, 50% verm, a little lime and a little gypsum.

For a great tek on how to make your 50/50+ casing layer from raw materials, look no further than RR's video on the topic.

This is a lazy-man's casing layer. I use organic jiffy mix seed starter, straight from the bag.



There are many different kinds of this seed starter and they are pretty poorly marked most of the time. 

Make sure to check the ingredients. You want it to only include peat moss, vermiculite, lime, and a wetting agent. Grab the organic kind and avoid anything that contains fertilizers, organic or not.


Preparing the casing material

I am using the entire 16 quart bag for this pictorial. This results in about 8-10 quarts of hydrated casing material.

When using less, measure out 1.5 - 2 quarts of dry jiffy mix for each quart of hydrated casing material you need.

Put it in a 5 gallon bucket and remove any large stems or chunks of debris.



Add water slowly until you reach your desired consistency. Remember to prep it on the dry side of field capacity- it will get muddy if it's too wet. As you add water, you will need to squeeze and "massage" the casing material. It will soak up the water very quickly with minimal work.



If you add too much water, just add some more verm to soak it up.

With my bags of jiffy mix, 4 quarts dry will be at field capacity with 1 quart of water. You will need to find your "sweet spot" as well, it varies from bag to bag and region to region.

Once hydrated to your liking, throw a bit of gypsum in. I use a small handful or two for every 16 quarts of dry jiffy mix. Mix it up again and check for field capacity one more time.



Load a bag or jars and pasteurize on the stove, following this link if you need instructions. 60-90min at 140-160F.

Let it cool overnight.

Here it is, ready to go.




Casing methods

First, figure out when you want to case the tub.

You can also apply a thin casing later (1/4"-1/2") and fruit the tub immediately.

Personally I prefer to apply a 1/2" casing layer to my PE tubs at 100% colonization, then let them colonize for 3-7 days. When the mycelium is poking through about 20% of the casing layer, I fruit the tub.

Some people have good luck with a "late casing" that is applied very thin (1/4") after pinning has begun.


How to apply the casing layer



Open the tub and start pouring your pasteurized casing material over the top. Gently spread it around, breaking it up so there are no big chunks.



Be gentle- try to disturb the substrate itself as little as possible.

Make it as deep as you feel you need to and even it out as best you can. Do not compress it, leave it fluffy.



Now either fruit it or return it to colonizing conditions until 20%.

Here is the casing layer above after 2 days:



And here it is after 4 days, ready to be fruited:



Notice how there is a lot of mycelium poking through along the edges of the casing?

I like to patch that with an additional, very thin (1/4") layer of casing material. I find that I get a more even pinset this way. If I leave it be, the edges tend to get a lot of pins first.



And here it is fruiting.





It has been my experience with cubes that a 50/50+ casing layer will be almost colonized (unless you late-cased) after the first flush. I don't re-case my cubes after harvest either.

Here are some penis envy tubs done with this casing layer, coir/verm with a 1/2" 50/50+. These are "limited" multispore, first flushes:


Here are p. galindoi fruits in a mini-GH with 1/4" of this casing material on top.


Discussion on how PE benefits from a casing layer can be found here.

:cheers:


--------------------

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Here is how I get things done.
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Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


Edited by FrankHorrigan (11/24/13 12:56 PM)


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OfflinePrinceShroom
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: FrankHorrigan] * 1
    #18880847 - 09/23/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Nice p. galindoi.
How much casing would you say a regular mono requires? 2 quarts?


--------------------
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: PrinceShroom] * 1
    #18880855 - 09/23/13 02:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

:thanx:

Did you see my log? I was keeping track of the progress a few months back.

For a 66qt monotub (pictured), it takes about 2-2.5 quarts of material for a 1/2" casing layer. I have not measured precisely in quite some time, I just take from that bag however much I need :lol:


--------------------

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Invisiblej3rk0ff
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: FrankHorrigan] * 1
    #18880877 - 09/23/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

damn them P.E. look sweet frank


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InvisiblePestile

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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: FrankHorrigan] * 1
    #18880894 - 09/23/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, those PE's look amazing. I'm always impressed when I see one of your tubs, Frank. How far do you go when creating limited multi spore? Is one transfers enough or are several required?


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OfflinePrinceShroom
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: FrankHorrigan] * 2
    #18880913 - 09/23/13 02:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
:thanx:

Did you see my log? I was keeping track of the progress a few months back.




Hmmmm thats making me wish my ATL culture wasn't so old.  Id break it out.  Maybe ill try to get a print somewhere and try them again.  They are such a nice grow.


--------------------
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

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OfflineHazanko
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: Pestile] * 2
    #18880955 - 09/23/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I've been trying to research more about casings, but it seems like the information I've found seems relatively vague... What is the ACTUAL benefit of a casing layer... I understand it's supposed to increase yields/etc, but I'm curious to know as to how it directly affects growth. I'm assuming a casing layer has to be of a different material than your actual substrate, but does that mean there is only specific materials that make good casing layers?

I've read that a casing layer helps provide a deposit of moisture to help with the growth of the mushrooms, so that does that mean you want a casing material that holds more water at field capacity than what your substrate does? Does a casing serve any nutritional benefit in addition to your substrate? I would think that if your monotube or FC was made properly, you wouldn't have issues with keep proper humidity, which is what a casing layer is supposed to help with? I was sort of thinking that possibly a casing layer helps promote additional pin growth due to the mycelium reaching a different texture than the subtrate?

Hopefully you could help better explain more ''how'' the casing layer functions instead of ''what'' a casing layer supposedly does. I feel like being able to better understand the workings behind things, helps with the construction of better techniques(at least for me)


--------------------


Edited by Hazanko (09/23/13 03:02 PM)


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OfflinePrinceShroom
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: Hazanko] * 1
    #18880971 - 09/23/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

A casing creates a beneficial micro climate to induce pinning.  Some species require a casing, cubes do not.  There is no real benefit to casing cubes.  No increase in yield.  Its an extra unnecessary step.

A casing has to be made up of non nutritious material so that the mycellium cannot fully colonize it.


--------------------
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: Hazanko] * 1
    #18880992 - 09/23/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

First and foremost it provides 99% humidity at the surface of your substrate, allowing for much more FAE without worrying so much about the fruiting chamber's RH dipping a bit.

But there is a lot about it I don't understand and if anyone else does, I have not seen it nor have they stepped forward.

I can say that a proper casing layer is more than just a humidity tent.

If all it did was provide humidity at the surface of the substrate, you might be able to get similar results by using verm or wax paper.

However, some species will not fruit without a proper casing layer such as 50/50+. Why is this? I don't know.

But when it comes to species that require a casing layer, nothing else will get them to fruit. Some need specific additives in their casing layers, like sand.

Casing layers are mysterious things. They are more than worthwhile to experiment with in your own time.

Quote:

PrinceShroom said:
A casing has to be made up of non nutritious material so that the mycellium cannot fully colonize it.




Verm is nutritious to fungus, it has been discussed and proven again and again. RR recently reiterated this.

Casing layers are semi-nutritious. And as such they will fully colonize, as seen on my PE tubs pictured.

Quote:

PrinceShroom said:
A casing creates a beneficial micro climate to induce pinning.  Some species require a casing, cubes do not.  There is no real benefit to casing cubes.  No increase in yield.  Its an extra unnecessary step.





My casing layer on my PE tubs drastically increases the yield vs a blob first flush.

No more discussion on the benefit or lack of for cubes please. Not on this thread, thank you.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


Edited by FrankHorrigan (09/23/13 03:16 PM)


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InvisibleOeric McKenna
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: PrinceShroom] * 1
    #18880997 - 09/23/13 03:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Your penis gave ME a serious boner....
Holy crap
:chinaman:


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: Oeric McKenna] * 1
    #18881007 - 09/23/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

:smilingpuppy:

Thanks Oeric! Nice to see you around!


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflinePrinceShroom
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: Oeric McKenna] * 1
    #18881016 - 09/23/13 03:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yea and coir is nutritious also.  Potting soil is not.  All and any mix of these can be used.  I really dont think it matters whether it is or isnt


--------------------
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: PrinceShroom] * 1
    #18881023 - 09/23/13 03:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

:lolwut:

I don't follow.

Nowhere in my write up do I say "use any potting soil you like."

A 50/50+ casing mix is what this tek is about. Did you read the whole OP? I clearly state the contents of the jiffy mix I use is 50% peat and 50% verm.

I'm beginning to think you did not read the OP.

:house:


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflineHazanko
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: FrankHorrigan] * 1
    #18881029 - 09/23/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not sure if you've tried anything like this, but I was reading this and found it interesting. Anyone have any takes on this ''stirring'' method?

https://mycotopia.net/forums/holding-tank/99304-uncle-gs-casing-canopy-tek.html

I can't wait to start experimenting on my own. Going off topic slightly, I'm curious to know what causes a pin to form where it decides to form, if it's at all possible to force pinning in a location. If it's possible to control where a pin appears, you could assume that you'd then be able to force a lot of condensed pinning thus increasing yields. It's kind of weird seeing pictures of some people that have like 1 HUGE shroom growing out of a cake in a weird place and nothing else, then other people with cakes that have fruiting in every direction and location.


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OfflinePrinceShroom
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: FrankHorrigan] * 2
    #18881032 - 09/23/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

No I read it.  Ive used jiffy mix many times before.  Ive also used potting soil straight from the bag.  Its a really old school method of casing but it is well established.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: PrinceShroom] * 1
    #18881040 - 09/23/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Hazanko said:
https://mycotopia.net/forums/holding-tank/99304-uncle-gs-casing-canopy-tek.html




You should disregard any tek and any member who recommends "scraping" or "scratching" the surface of the mycelium. This is bullshit misinformation that was disproven years ago.

Quote:

PrinceShroom said:
No I read it.  Ive used jiffy mix many times before.  Ive also used potting soil straight from the bag.  Its a really old school method of casing but it is well established.




So basically, you are not going to respond to anything I said to you except one little thing from each post.

This post is not about potting soil in general. And you are adding misinformation to the thread and contradicting yourself. Please stop.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
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You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
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OfflineHazanko
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: Hazanko] * 1
    #18881066 - 09/23/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You posted this tek just in time haha. I've ordered Orissa India spores and while there doesn't seem to be a ton of information on them, I've read from a place or two that they can sometimes have a mutated first flush. Hopefully if a casing layer helps PE, it may do the same for OI's?


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: Hazanko] * 1
    #18881125 - 09/23/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I don't get how that is misinformation. Straight potting soil does indeed work as a primitive casing layer, so will straight peat moss, so does straight verm.

Although "jiffy mix" is the preferred "out of the bag" casing.


--------------------
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InvisibleBilge
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: maddchef] * 1
    #18881185 - 09/23/13 04:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

"Straight potting soil" might need some clarification: when I was working for a greenhouse, our 'straight potting soil' was a combination of peat, vermiculite and perlite.


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InvisibleHypnotoadCroaked
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Re: How Frank makes casing layers with jiffy mix [Re: FrankHorrigan] * 1
    #18881338 - 09/23/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
First and foremost it provides 99% humidity at the surface of your substrate, allowing for much more FAE without worrying so much about the fruiting chamber's RH dipping a bit.

But there is a lot about it I don't understand and if anyone else does, I have not seen it nor have they stepped forward.

I can say that a proper casing layer is more than just a humidity tent.

If all it did was provide humidity at the surface of the substrate, you might be able to get similar results by using verm or wax paper.

However, some species will not fruit without a proper casing layer such as 50/50+. Why is this? I don't know.

But when it comes to species that require a casing layer, nothing else will get them to fruit. Some need specific additives in their casing layers, like sand.

Casing layers are mysterious things. They are more than worthwhile to experiment with in your own time.







My speculation based on using casing 100% of the time. 

It is all about evaporation control AS MUCH AS creating the proper conditions as the surface.  Different additives create a different evaporation amounts. A uniform thickness casing layer should promote more even evaporation.  As you said, there are plenty of worthwhile experiments that have yet to be done involving casing.

Mycelium rips through it, but it is non, nutritious.  This is part of why it can help.  It does not become a solid mass like bulk substrates.  It still manages to maintain a high total surface area, which promotes evaporation and pin formation. 

These are just hypothesis based on my time using casing layers. 

I always use peat and verm at 50% each.  I can see how adding sand could accelerate evaporation, much like perlite does in a sgfc.  Respected research shows that a casing layer is unnecessary in a perfect environment.  However, respected research has yet to show how it hurts to put one on anyway.


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