Home | Community | Message Board


This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
Offlinejunkyardgod
A psychedelic mess.
Male

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 443
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion*
    #18879219 - 09/23/13 04:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.relevantmagazine.com/god/church/why-aren%E2%80%99t-more-intellectuals-believers?fb_action_ids=10201939741519899&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210201939741519899%22%3A570554479670139%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210201939741519899%22%3A%22og.recommends%22%7D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D

I’ve recently been conducting some recreational research into the history of modern Europe and the unique conditions which gave rise to the Christian faith. Geographically speaking, the position of Europe nestled snugly between Africa and Asia played a pivotal role in its secularization. The continent’s survival and success depended on innovation and this, coupled with the less centralized control of monarchies vs. vast dynasties (think Han Dynasty of China), naturally led to an appreciation and fostering of the inquisitive mind. What puzzles me is that Christianity was at the forefront of this movement; to be Christian in Medieval Europe was to be literate and learned, of a polite and gentleman-like persuasion. This philosophy was most highly exemplified by the nobility and religious scholastic thinkers of the time, of which many are still greatly revered today for their faith and simultaneous thirst for knowledge of the natural world. So what happened? The rise of the University institution was just the beginning, but even then religion benefited perhaps the most from the printing press and dissemination of knowledge.

That being said, I don’t think it’s fair to blame the intellectual institutions for the current bias in the scientific community (as this article partly does, but also graciously accepts the fact that open-mindedness should be embraced by all). There were innumerable persecutions by the Church in the early days, unchecked zealotry, the hunger for power rampant everywhere; this is a reflection of the vulnerability of the human condition, the ‘fear of the unknown’, the need to ‘control the environment’, and ‘greed’ (while these themes have their place in religion, I feel they are firmly rooted in psychological and behavioral philosophy). The leaders had a vision, a divine mandate in their eyes, to share the Holy Scripture with the rest of the world. Yet while their teachings were well-intended, they were but mere mortal men and just as susceptible to sin as the rest of us. Upon securing the new Holy Roman Empire as their ship, the rudder of Catholicism assumed nearly full reign. And look what happened. The despairing schism of The Reformation is but a single piece of evidence that illustrates how unyielding and frustrating ancient philosophy can be. I personally believe that our contemporary dichotomy is a symptomatic offshoot of our tumultuous historical founding.

Hailing from a theistic family, I was really able to connect to this article. Shedding the confines of the religious institution has allowed me to retain my spirituality and yet gain a universe of insight by my studies of the sciences. But what is tragic is that even my own family falls prey to the savage and archaic rhetoric of intolerance. When my own flesh and blood ostracize me from my dying father’s bedside on the grounds of religious morality, I am hard pressed to accept that things will ever improve. Furthermore, working in an Emergency Department for the last four years has also shed valuable light on the disconnection between spirituality and science. It is my humble opinion that both are equally lacking the strengths of the other.

But I still have faith in humanity. I have faith that our hearts are bigger than our swollen, hurting and angry egos. There is always hope for change – and in fact adaptability is arguably our most important trait as human beings. That, and our ability to love.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetarzan92
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 290
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: junkyardgod]
    #18879224 - 09/23/13 04:29 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe you should read my post's with all modesty


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejunkyardgod
A psychedelic mess.
Male

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 443
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: tarzan92]
    #18879274 - 09/23/13 05:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

While I appreciate the power of your mind and heart, I can no longer endorse preaching of any kind. It's simply the wrong way. To divide one's entire moral being into the simplicity of "good and evil, right and wrong" is by the far the most limiting of the Christian ideals. It's divisive and destructive. Small-minded and archaic. Dropping the staple of sermonizing behaviour would prove of utmost benefit to you and your ilk. Instead, adopting and embracing a culture of mutual respect and understanding would be far more beneficial to mankind.

You're cool though. I like you. :smile:


Edited by junkyardgod (09/23/13 05:54 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: junkyardgod]
    #18879325 - 09/23/13 05:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

well said :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJamesSpawned
Fart smeller! Wait...
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/15/13
Posts: 773
Loc: Treasure Coast
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: Icelander]
    #18879383 - 09/23/13 06:32 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
well said :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:




I agree 100%. I am married to the granddaughter of a Southern Baptist Preacher (raised by him and his wife). I have never hinted or spoken to him of my lack of belief, for I would hate to shake up this great mans heart. I believe he knows but chooses to let it be unspoken between the two of us rather than involve the rest of the church and family. My wife and I regularly attend the services he preaches on Sunday mornings. Surely I seem a hypocrite In this but I do greatly enjoy listening to his sermons in a sincere and genuine way, I don't just sit there and sneer inwardly at the fallacies I perceive. Occasionally there are time when I cannot hold back a silent chuckle at something I find especially imaginative, I enjoy the teachings but I do so without buying into the singular faith. I try to look at the proverbs that seem too far out merely as a unique form of fiction and grasp for the morality and lessons lying within. What I'm really getting down to is that I really love the preacher and know the feeling is mutual, but our friendship would not be possible if he did not know when to pick his battles and leave the sermons meant for me in the fellowship hall of his church.


--------------------
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinejunkyardgod
A psychedelic mess.
Male

Registered: 08/12/08
Posts: 443
Last seen: 1 year, 11 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: JamesSpawned]
    #18879420 - 09/23/13 06:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

JamesSpawned said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
well said :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:




I agree 100%. I am married to the granddaughter of a Southern Baptist Preacher (raised by him and his wife). I have never hinted or spoken to him of my lack of belief, for I would hate to shake up this great mans heart. I believe he knows but chooses to let it be unspoken between the two of us rather than involve the rest of the church and family. My wife and I regularly attend the services he preaches on Sunday mornings. Surely I seem a hypocrite In this but I do greatly enjoy listening to his sermons in a sincere and genuine way, I don't just sit there and sneer inwardly at the fallacies I perceive. Occasionally there are time when I cannot hold back a silent chuckle at something I find especially imaginative, I enjoy the teachings but I do so without buying into the singular faith. I try to look at the proverbs that seem too far out merely as a unique form of fiction and grasp for the morality and lessons lying within. What I'm really getting down to is that I really love the preacher and know the feeling is mutual, but our friendship would not be possible if he did not know when to pick his battles and leave the sermons meant for me in the fellowship hall of his church.




It's so beautifully refreshing to hear a like-mind amidst the chaos. Your story is encouraging. My earlier comments about preaching and sermonizing may have been misconstrued - I too try to seek the underlying message whenever I engage in theology and have utmost respect for every form of teacher. I just feel the method is a tad out-dated. Anyway, I really like how you phrased your reply, thank you for taking the time!


Edited by junkyardgod (09/23/13 07:02 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJamesSpawned
Fart smeller! Wait...
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/15/13
Posts: 773
Loc: Treasure Coast
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: junkyardgod]
    #18879460 - 09/23/13 07:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I am similarly delighted to be a part of your thread, it's certainly my pleasure to add my own account to it. As for me I get equally tired of listening to the theology denouncers as I do the hellfire and brimstone spewing in-your-face Christians. It would be just too wonderful if the faithful could accept the knowledge found through science and also the non believers respect and embrace the moral guidance offered by religious groups.


--------------------
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetarzan92
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 290
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: JamesSpawned]
    #18879544 - 09/23/13 08:08 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I have to agree influencing others to believe is a better approach then preaching, this is something I recently discovered. In society people frequently preach at eachother and in most occasions its aimed to uplift and encourage. On the contarary people not believing in God is a direct result of refusal to hold one's self accountable for their possessed impact . The quickest way to lose your judgement is to become your own judge. Believing in death forever is a negative insignificant way to live and its dangerous when people adopt it as fact. These people are more likely to commit crimes if they know they cant get caught. That's what happens when a soul chooses to view life as an accident all sanity is lost.  And before i recieve feedback in relation to this following statement  "Thats not how all aitheists are!" I know that not all people become less moral after they give up the idea of an intelligent designer but truth is most of them do


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetarzan92
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 290
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: tarzan92]
    #18879556 - 09/23/13 08:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Oh yeah this message is for junkyardgod and whoever else wants to meditate on it


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: tarzan92]
    #18879756 - 09/23/13 09:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tarzan92 said:
I have to agree influencing others to believe is a better approach then preaching, this is something I recently discovered. In society people frequently preach at eachother and in most occasions its aimed to uplift and encourage. On the contarary people not believing in God is a direct result of refusal to hold one's self accountable for their possessed impact . The quickest way to lose your judgement is to become your own judge. Believing in death forever is a negative insignificant way to live and its dangerous when people adopt it as fact. These people are more likely to commit crimes if they know they cant get caught. That's what happens when a soul chooses to view life as an accident all sanity is lost.  And before i recieve feedback in relation to this following statement  "Thats not how all aitheists are!" I know that not all people become less moral after they give up the idea of an intelligent designer but truth is most of them do



Then how come you seem to do so much preaching here?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetarzan92
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 290
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: Icelander]
    #18879798 - 09/23/13 09:35 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Things are not always as they seem


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: tarzan92]
    #18879812 - 09/23/13 09:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

But they usually are.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetarzan92
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 290
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: Icelander]
    #18879839 - 09/23/13 09:46 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The quickest way to lose your judgement is to become your own judge


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineomegafaust
mycofarmer
Male User Gallery


Registered: 05/29/12
Posts: 1,227
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: tarzan92]
    #18879862 - 09/23/13 09:54 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The quickest way to avoid a conversation is to use rhetoric or some profound statement,
saying nothing but hoping to confuse.


--------------------
The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself.  All you are is a thought.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetarzan92
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 290
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: omegafaust]
    #18879873 - 09/23/13 09:57 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

When thou art confused thy knowledge isnt meek


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetarzan92
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 290
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: omegafaust]
    #18879874 - 09/23/13 09:58 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Most of the time


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJamesSpawned
Fart smeller! Wait...
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/15/13
Posts: 773
Loc: Treasure Coast
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: omegafaust]
    #18879878 - 09/23/13 10:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

luckily profoundity abounds on the shroomery and most members are not phased by it or most other cryptic and or obscure statements used as a retort in lieu of a more intellectual, practical, or logical response.


--------------------
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED?!



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: omegafaust]
    #18879889 - 09/23/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

omegafaust said:
The quickest way to avoid a conversation is to use rhetoric or some profound statement,
saying nothing but hoping to confuse.



:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinetarzan92
Stranger
 User Gallery


Registered: 04/21/13
Posts: 290
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: JamesSpawned]
    #18879899 - 09/23/13 10:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Nobody can make a skeptic believe but a skeptic can make himself believe anything is possible


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why Aren't More Intellectuals Believers? *Article and Opinion* [Re: tarzan92]
    #18879906 - 09/23/13 10:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

That's just nonsense. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* The Snakes are inside me...
( 1 2 3 all )
Adamist 13,268 44 02/05/21 10:58 PM
by makalis
* Alien/Human Relations v2.0
( 1 2 3 4 all )
Anonymous 23,691 65 12/23/22 02:19 AM
by doolhoofd
* Christ
( 1 2 3 4 5 all )
flickedbic 4,643 93 03/04/18 05:19 PM
by MarkostheGnostic
* public apology tryptonite 263 1 03/03/18 08:28 AM
by Buckthorn
* On your path to enlightenment...
( 1 2 all )
ShroomismM 12,355 34 10/15/22 10:25 PM
by Buster_Brown
* The 4th Density
( 1 2 3 all )
ShroomismM 16,387 49 10/19/08 12:07 PM
by ariark
* Surah Al- Haqqah - The Inevitable Hour - Nuclear War? Asante 456 7 03/03/18 05:12 PM
by Asante
* what it means to have dominion over the animals
( 1 2 all )
Deadfrancis 2,143 31 03/19/18 10:47 AM
by Bill_Oreilly

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, Shroomism, Rose, Kickle, yogabunny, DividedQuantum
1,610 topic views. 0 members, 7 guests and 1 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.028 seconds spending 0.009 seconds on 14 queries.