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Burke Dennings
baby merchant

Registered: 11/29/04
Posts: 81,641
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
#18872190 - 09/21/13 01:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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You use butane (or hexane or pentane) because it's a non-polar solvent that doesn't pull out chlorophyll and lipids from plant matter. Or at least not nearly as much as isopropanol.
Also, if you do it right, I very highly doubt that "90%" of it evaporates before extraction. Only a small amount will, and then you purge the rest.
I don't know what's so hard to understand about this.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,406
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 11 minutes, 28 seconds
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No, I'm not suggesting it doesn't work. I am suggesting it would probably work equally well, or better, with a less ridiculous solvent. I mean, you are doing a liquid solvent extraction with a solvent that isn't a liquid at room temperature and 1 atm. Maybe I misunderstood the procedure. Is this being done in a pressurized container or at very low temperatures? Well, obviously at low temperatures since your liquid is going to max out at about 3°, but is that the point to do a very cold extraction? If so, you could always put some naphtha in the freezer.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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ganjfather
uncle randy



Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 6,342
Loc:
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It matters, but to a degree.
I have and always will use 5x. I've paid the extra price many a times for the 7x and it makes NO DIFFERENCE. But then there are people that swear by 7x. The only difference is that you can use SLIGHTLY less 7x than 5x. It doesn't make a better product. Don't go any lower than 5x, though.
Don't use ronson, go out and buy some clean butane, most people like to use vector and they sell good butane.
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iloveweed
Baked


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 33
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
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Re: BHO question [Re: psi]
#18872677 - 09/21/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
psi said: I don't know why you would say it has no scientific basis, obviously it really does work.
Yes it does. A couple good dabs and I'm happily stoned. Since I sold my volcano I've been waking up every other morning with a soar throat from smoking 10 bongs in a day. So what's worse, three grams of plant material in and out your lungs everyday or a few dabs?
Doesn't a cigarette lighter contain butane? Don't you inhale a minuscule amount of it when using them? How would that be any different?
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Herbologist
Grrratata



Registered: 05/09/10
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Loc: Casa Bonita
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Instead of being a twat and challenging people why dont you do the research yourself?
It will clearly explain to you why you SHOULD be using butane with no impurities
-------------------- Shroomery Law: Don't piss off the leftist mods & their friends!
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ganjfather
uncle randy



Registered: 08/06/09
Posts: 6,342
Loc:
Last seen: 3 years, 7 months
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Quote:
iloveweed said: Doesn't a cigarette lighter contain butane?
Yes.
Quote:
Don't you inhale a minuscule amount of it when using them? How would that be any different?
No, when it hits a flame it is no longer butane.
The byproducts of butane combustion are h20 & co2.
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iloveweed
Baked


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 33
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
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Quote:
Herbologist said: Instead of being a twat and challenging people why dont you do the research yourself?
It will clearly explain to you why you SHOULD be using butane with no impurities
Every brand of butane contains impurities you arrogant fucking idiot I've done plenty of research. Get you're facts straight before you assume things. Where's your research then?
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iloveweed
Baked


Registered: 09/16/13
Posts: 33
Last seen: 10 years, 28 days
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Thank you ganjfather for a more insightful response.
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trippinballs420
Samall Johnson



Registered: 09/17/12
Posts: 11,903
Loc: CO
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Butane & Health:
It has been talked about a lot lately, some brand of butane add a smell to their butane. This smell is usually added to the butane so that humans can detect leaks, you will find it in large amounts in cheap butane, or camping butane. It can also potentially be in ?Clean? butane such as Colibri.
These chemicals are usually Mercaptans or Sulfur Dioxide (Rotten Egg Smell), using cheap butane with high levels of these is harmful. Do not use cheap butane or camping butane. It can also be harmful to use ?Clean? butane, so do so at your own risk.
It is not known what the effects of residues in butane honey oil are; it?s not even known for sure what if any residues are left over in butane honey oil after the butane is purged.
Only a Gas Chromatography/Mass Spectrometer can give us the info on what?s exactly is in our BHO. The search is on to find somewhere to get a sample tested. Until then, be aware of the potential health risks and judge for yourself if it?s worth it.
Butane Brands
Not all butane is created equally; there are 2 different types of butane that make up the most common brands of butane. Isobutane and N-Butane.
Most cheap brands use Isobutane (2-METHYL PROPANE) and is more toxic and hazardous than N-Butane. For making Honey oil N-Butane is what we want, it extracts better and leaves very little to no residues in the oil.
Other brands use a mix of the different types, and some, like Colibri, use propane as well as Iso and n-butane
Boiling Points ISOBUTANE: -11.7 C N-BUTANE: -0.5 C
No source of pure N-Butane has been found available in stores, only through Gas Supply Companies.
The best brand of butane I have used is Colibri Butane. I highly recommend Colibri, and you should be able to find it at most Fine Cigar and Tobacco Shoppe?s. Below is a list of other brands that are good for making Honey oil with. If you cannot find Colibri try to find one of the butane brands listed. And by all means avoid Ronson, Bernz-o-matic or other butane not listed below, they add smell to their butane and this smell is left behind making the oil taste very bad.
Other Brands that are good to use:
COLIBRI, NEWPORT, CORA, CTC, COLTON, DUNHILL, DAVIDOFF, FACKELMAN, WIN, NIBO, SAROME, CALOR GAS MATCH, UNILIGHT, K2, SUPERGAS, VENTTI, VECTOR.
This is by no way a complete list, and there is no promise this info will always be correct, manufactures can change recipes at anytime. This list is the brands that carry the ?Near Zero? impurity label, which means they are not supposed to have more than 15ppm of impurities, what they are is not know.
When you purchase the butane make sure you find the largest size of can you can. I use the 300ml/167g (6oz) cans of Colibri. Most places only carry the little 2oz cans, these are not enough. You will need at least 8oz of butane for every 1oz of plant material.
do a little searching. i typed "most pure butane" into this crazy new fangled thing called "google"...this was in the second link that popped up who knew such a thing existed
-------------------- ModestMouse said: "Much love for all of the regs here that's all I got to say
"
Edited by trippinballs420 (09/22/13 02:20 AM)
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BIGS
Connoisseur

Registered: 01/29/12
Posts: 475
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Look dude, Your not getting N tane nor from the sound of it do you have a closed looped extraction system. (n tane isnt even that great it kills terps in your oils and give less flavor but does provide a more potent high)
Unless your running GOOD tane and a closed loop system you should be making BHO at all.
Butane has by products in it including mineral oils which are all bad. Newport, Vector, Colibri are all very good over the counter butanes. Roson has way to many by products, mineral oils, parfin and ect. You should be purging using a lab grade oven at low heat.
If you dont have the money or the resources to get Lab grade equipment all your going to be doing is making sub par oils with so much residual butane and by products you will be getting a "butane high", just because you think your oil is good doesnt mean shit.
Do what you want but when you get a collapsed lung from under purged oils, youll think twice about making BHO ever again. Collapsed lungs are no joke and have happened to people i know from smoking un purged oils.
If your going to make BHO use at least good material and spend the money to invest in some sort of method of purging and some form of glass or SS tube. Never use plastics! All info on how to make proper oils is all on tokecityDOTcom
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,406
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 11 minutes, 28 seconds
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Quote:
Burke Dennings said: You use butane (or hexane or pentane) because it's a non-polar solvent that doesn't pull out chlorophyll and lipids from plant matter. Or at least not nearly as much as isopropanol.
Also, if you do it right, I very highly doubt that "90%" of it evaporates before extraction. Only a small amount will, and then you purge the rest.
I don't know what's so hard to understand about this.
Yes. My point is this obsession with butane, when hexane would work perfectly well and it doesn't boil away at room temperature. People are so worried about fucking Impurities and they are using 3 cans of butane, concentrating the all the impurities in practically a liter of butane. You could use shit quality cyclohexane from lighter fluid and because the volume of solvent would be so much lower, you would end up with the same amont of impurity. And it wouldn't cost you $25 worth of solvent.
Is this done in a closed system? That would be different, but you wouldn't have to worry about a closed system if you just used an APPROPRIATE SOLVENT!
And this bullshit about the number of times it was refined is just a fucking marketing technique to get you to pay more money for their product. If they really had a consistently higher quality product, they would put an assay on the side of their bottle.
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(n tane isnt even that great it kills terps in your oils and give less flavor but does provide a more potent high
Woo. Pseudoscientifc BS. I guess this is why this is in the pub, and not the chem forum.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/22/13 09:43 AM)
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Heffy
BrauMeister



Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Quote:
iloveweed said:
Quote:
Heffy said: Maybe you think the oil you made is great, but it tastes like ass to people with more experience.
Not to mention the industrial by-products that will be present in your product, and not in a product that uses refined butane.
I bet your oil tastes like sulfurs.
I bet your wrong. I use a $300 dollar Liquidizer machine that was featured in the top products list of high times. My butane is the only thing in question not my extraction methods.
What bi products exactly are you referring to and why would they not be purged out of my final product? With the right extraction methods I still see no problem here.
Please have a little more supporting evidence before posting. You seem very arrogant.
I never questioned your extraction method. I questioned the quality of your butane.
Poor quality butane will contain residues of all kinds of stuff including methanes, ethanes, mercaptans, and sulfurs.
You haven't described your extraction or purging procedures, so you tell me. Why WOULD they be purged out of your final product? Since you are so comfortable with using a lower quality butane with more impurities, why don't you describe the steps you are taking to remove these compounds during your extraction and purging?
I'm skeptical that you've taken any though, since you don't seem to be aware of what it even is that you are trying to remove.
-------------------- I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
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Heffy
BrauMeister



Registered: 08/30/04
Posts: 3,262
Loc: International Traveller
Last seen: 5 years, 9 months
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
#18875234 - 09/22/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
Burke Dennings said: You use butane (or hexane or pentane) because it's a non-polar solvent that doesn't pull out chlorophyll and lipids from plant matter. Or at least not nearly as much as isopropanol.
Also, if you do it right, I very highly doubt that "90%" of it evaporates before extraction. Only a small amount will, and then you purge the rest.
I don't know what's so hard to understand about this.
Yes. My point is this obsession with butane, when hexane would work perfectly well and it doesn't boil away at room temperature. People are so worried about fucking Impurities and they are using 3 cans of butane, concentrating the all the impurities in practically a liter of butane. You could use shit quality cyclohexane from lighter fluid and because the volume of solvent would be so much lower, you would end up with the same amont of impurity. And it wouldn't cost you $25 worth of solvent.
Is this done in a closed system? That would be different, but you wouldn't have to worry about a closed system if you just used an APPROPRIATE SOLVENT!
And this bullshit about the number of times it was refined is just a fucking marketing technique to get you to pay more money for their product. If they really had a consistently higher quality product, they would put an assay on the side of their bottle.
Quote:
(n tane isnt even that great it kills terps in your oils and give less flavor but does provide a more potent high
Woo. Pseudoscientifc BS. I guess this is why this is in the pub, and not the chem forum.
You've gotten me interested in hexane extraction. Do you have any teks or reports of people doing this? Do you think it would be safer than using pressurized butane in a glass/metal/plastic chamber?
-------------------- I am the king of Rome, and above grammar! - Emperor Sigismund
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TwinEclipse
Psychedelic Alchemist


Registered: 07/06/13
Posts: 1,499
Loc: NGC1097
Last seen: 8 years, 6 months
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
#18875238 - 09/22/13 09:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Turpentines are used to efficiently detect gas leaks. Concentrated variants and be smelled 100s of miles away.
They also concentrate the smell of pine trees. Forests always smell piney lol
I highly doubt they are found in refined extracts of butane however.
If you are really concerned of additives, just get technical grade butane. Stuff is $$$$$ though lol
-------------------- My purpose: to love, to share, and to experience....all while conforming to my psychedelic experiences.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,406
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 11 minutes, 28 seconds
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Quote:
TwinEclipse said: Turpentines are used to efficiently detect gas leaks. Concentrated variants and be smelled 100s of miles away.
They also concentrate the smell of pine trees. Forests always smell piney lol
I highly doubt they are found in refined extracts of butane however.
If you are really concerned of additives, just get technical grade butane. Stuff is $$$$$ though lol
What? Turpentine is a terpene, but isn't germane to this topic. The stuff they put in butane and propane are mercaptans, and they can be smelled in very low concentrations
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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gzuf
٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶



Registered: 07/13/09
Posts: 6,535
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
#18875410 - 09/22/13 10:38 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: Yes. My point is this obsession with butane, when hexane would work perfectly well and it doesn't boil away at room temperature. People are so worried about fucking Impurities and they are using 3 cans of butane, concentrating the all the impurities in practically a liter of butane. You could use shit quality cyclohexane from lighter fluid and because the volume of solvent would be so much lower, you would end up with the same amont of impurity. And it wouldn't cost you $25 worth of solvent.
Is this done in a closed system? That would be different, but you wouldn't have to worry about a closed system if you just used an APPROPRIATE SOLVENT!
And this bullshit about the number of times it was refined is just a fucking marketing technique to get you to pay more money for their product. If they really had a consistently higher quality product, they would put an assay on the side of their bottle.
Gonna go out on a limb here and say butane is just more readily available and well known (less expensive?). I googled it quick, there are plenty of articles and postings about using other solvents. I never heard of anything besides butane myself and I did a good amount of research on BHO before I tried it. Dunno man. Most of us average schlubs don't know about all these other solvents but when it comes to butane..
Quote:
Yes. My point is this obsession with butane, when hexane would work perfectly well and it doesn't boil away at room temperature. People are so worried about fucking Impurities and they are using 3 cans of butane, concentrating the all the impurities in practically a liter of butane
Don't you want it to boil at room temperature? People use #x filtered butane because they want less impurities.... So they would be concentrating less impurities in those three cans with a higher quality butane, right?
-------------------- +1 Post ٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,406
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 11 minutes, 28 seconds
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Re: BHO question [Re: gzuf]
#18875461 - 09/22/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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BTW, I happened to get a GC/MS profile of Ronsonol lighter fluid when I used it as a solvent for another compound I had tested. It was almost entirely 6 to 9 carbon straight, branched and cyclic alkanes, with the remainder being some 7-8 carbon alkenes. There was nothing "toxic" in it.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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gzuf
٩(̾๏̮̮̃̾๏̃̾)۶



Registered: 07/13/09
Posts: 6,535
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
#18875476 - 09/22/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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They put a smell in to it though don't they? That was one thing I think I remember that turned people off of it.
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,406
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 11 minutes, 28 seconds
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Re: BHO question [Re: gzuf]
#18875499 - 09/22/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm talking about the liquid product in the yellow bottle that is mostly cyclohexane. Not the butane. The butane has an added mercaptan because it is a liquified gas.
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
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NotTheDevil
Transhuman


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 5,436
Loc: US
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
#18875548 - 09/22/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said: No, I'm not suggesting it doesn't work. I am suggesting it would probably work equally well, or better, with a less ridiculous solvent. I mean, you are doing a liquid solvent extraction with a solvent that isn't a liquid at room temperature and 1 atm. Maybe I misunderstood the procedure. Is this being done in a pressurized container or at very low temperatures? Well, obviously at low temperatures since your liquid is going to max out at about 3�, but is that the point to do a very cold extraction? If so, you could always put some naphtha in the freezer.
Butane in the bottle is a liquid with a little compressed gas at the top, when you turn the bottle upside down for this process, the liquid is pushed out by the compressed air also the decompression of the gas, as well as the evaporation of some of the liquid cools it down immensely causing it to remain liquid for a relatively long time.
Quote:
koods said: I'm talking about the liquid product in the yellow bottle that is mostly cyclohexane. Not the butane. The butane has an added mercaptan because it is a liquified gas.
Certain brands don't that why everyones telling op to use a different brand.
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