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Deviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
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And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him
#18874987 - 09/22/13 07:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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This is one of my favorite verses in the entire Bible. It's absolutely hilarious. Verses like this have me rolling on the floor laughing. I love how these sorts of verses just come completely out of left field and absolutely no further context, commentary or explanation is given. Do we know what Er did to be judged wicked in the sight of the Lord? No and apparently it's not important. All we need to know is that he was wicked in the sight of the Lord and so the Lord slew him.
This is another one of my favorite, this coming from the book of Numbers:
31 Now there went forth a wind from the Lord and it brought quail from the sea, and let them fall beside the camp, about a day’s journey on this side and a day’s journey on the other side, all around the camp and [s]about two [t]cubits deep on the surface of the ground. 32 The people spent all day and all night and all the next day, and gathered the quail (he who gathered least gathered ten [v]homers) and they spread them out for themselves all around the camp. 33 While the meat was still between their teeth, before it was chewed, the wrath of the Lord flared up against the people and he struck them with a very great plague. 34 So the name of that place was called [w]Kibroth-hattaavah, because there they buried the people who had been greedy. 35 From Kibroth-hattaavah the people set out for Hazeroth, and they [x]remained at Hazeroth.
Here the Lord strikes his people with a "very great" and apparently quite deadly plague because they appear greedy to them as they begin to chew the multitudes of quail that he himself gave to them. But it's not as if they had eaten 10 quails each or something, no, they hadn't even swallowed the first bite yet, but apparently the way they were chewing it made them appear greedy to the Lord, so as any just ruler would do, he gave them a punishment that fit the crime.
Anyway I am wondering if anyone else loves these verses as much as I do? You're probably thinking this guy is nuts. These verses should make any sane person renounce the faith. I understand that point of view, but to me I believe they illustrate God's sense of humor.
I mean can how you help but laugh? We are told that we must love the Lord with all our heart, all our mind, all our strengh and all our soul. The text takes the liberty of simply assuming that we will love the Lord. Never does it give the faintest hint of awareness of the fact that some people reading these verses are going to find it difficult to love a Lord who behaves in ways that seem so ridiculous, arbitrary and cruel. It never addresses the problem of why we should have complete faith in a God who is apt to make us a die a horrible death because we appeared greedy as we bit into a quail that he gave us. Then we are told how incredibly merciful, forgiving and slow to anger he is.
What makes the whole situation even more humorous is how seriously this book is taken. I mean atheists can you imagine what must go through the minds of atheists when they finally crack open a Bible to see what all the fuss is about and then they read things like that? Oh, just picturing the expression on their faces makes me double over with laughter.
So what do you'all think of them verses and this so called 'Lord" Ya like 'em or dislike 'em? I like 'em. I think they demonstrate God's absolute power and sovereignty. We see how if we transgress the Lord won't necessarily hesitate to put us in our place, even if it means smiting us to smithereens for seemingly very mino offenses. But perhaps more importantly, these verses also serve as reminders never to take ourselves or our religion too seriosly.
So ironically, while many people try to cite these verses as proof God does not exist, for me they provide further testament to his greatness as they highlight his wonderful sense of humor.
Edited by Deviate (09/22/13 07:59 AM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him [Re: Deviate]
#18875148 - 09/22/13 09:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm laughing.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


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Re: And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him [Re: Icelander]
#18875312 - 09/22/13 10:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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What an amazing sense of humour this guy had. Jeez and I thought Hitler knew how to make a guy laugh.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Re: And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him [Re: Deviate] 1
#18875417 - 09/22/13 10:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
So what do you'all think of them verses and this so called 'Lord" Ya like 'em or dislike 'em? I like 'em. I think they demonstrate God's absolute power and sovereignty. We see how if we transgress the Lord won't necessarily hesitate to put us in our place, even if it means smiting us to smithereens for seemingly very mino offenses.
Sorry but I don't think the real "God" would smite anyone to smithereens. A loving God cannot possibly justify that.
It's interesting how the God of the Old Testament is so different to the God of the New Testament. They are almost like two completely different figures.
Personally I think taking the Bible literally is a very very big mistake. The stories are allegory. They are symbolic, like the parables of Jesus. The Bible is a parable.
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
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Re: And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him [Re: Deviate]
#18875780 - 09/22/13 12:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said: So what do you'all think of them verses and this so called 'Lord" Ya like 'em or dislike 'em? I like 'em. I think they demonstrate God's absolute power and sovereignty. We see how if we transgress the Lord won't necessarily hesitate to put us in our place, even if it means smiting us to smithereens for seemingly very mino offenses. But perhaps more importantly, these verses also serve as reminders never to take ourselves or our religion too seriosly.
So ironically, while many people try to cite these verses as proof God does not exist, for me they provide further testament to his greatness as they highlight his wonderful sense of humor.
I don't think about the writings of the Bible in this way. I consider the Bible a part of wisdom literature. I consider the Epic of Gilgamesh in the same category. And I don't devote time trying to convince myself or others of their truth or falseness in whole, their complete righteousness or complete malignancy. Those strike me as odd pursuits. I have not come across anything in my life that is all one way or another, so to try and convince another of that is quite strange IMO.
I suppose we all pick our battle grounds though and the tendency to polarize is strong in us
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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MarkostheGnostic
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Registered: 12/09/99
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Re: And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him [Re: PocketLady]
#18877289 - 09/22/13 06:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's interesting how the God of the Old Testament is so different to the God of the New Testament. They are almost like two completely different figures.
Exactly the point in Harold Bloom's book. YHWH and the Father are described in vastly different ways. No wonder the Gnostics came up with an evil Demiurge as well as the True God. This Gnostic notion was repeated in The Matrix trilogy. There was the True Creator of the sky and sun that Neo caught a vision of, and there is the machine world of the Architect, the Demiurge of The Matrix, enforced by the Agents, which are the Archons (powers) in Gnosticism.

Personally I think taking the Bible literally is a very very big mistake. The stories are allegory. They are symbolic
Yes, 4 or 5 levels of interpretation are noted by scholars of the Tenach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardes_(Jewish_exegesis)
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Grapefruit
Freak in the forest


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 5,744
Last seen: 3 years, 1 month
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Re: And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#18878722 - 09/23/13 12:16 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The thing I never got about the bible and many other books is why would I waste any time on something so difficult to interpret. Personally I'd rather read something straight than all this wishy washy occult nonesense. That's why for the most part I like quotes I've read of figures such as Jesus and Buddha yet think little of the religions behind them.
-------------------- Little left in the way of energy; or the way of love, yet happy to entertain myself playing mental games with the rest of you freaks until the rivers run backwards. "Chat your fraff Chat your fraff Just chat your fraff Chat your fraff"
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him [Re: Grapefruit]
#18879523 - 09/23/13 07:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Some like things very vague so they can read into it whatever they need at the moment.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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benjaminlong
Seeker

Registered: 08/31/13
Posts: 30
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
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Re: And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him [Re: Icelander]
#18879649 - 09/23/13 08:54 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have one verse for you. "The natural man recieveth not the things of the spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him. Neither can he know them, for they are spiritually discerned. "
God is a God of righteousness and judgement. He does not tolerate sin. Er was wicked. How wicked or what kind of wicked is irrelevant. All sin is equal in the eyes of God. As God slew Er, for being wicked, so will God destroy the wicked of this world.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him [Re: benjaminlong]
#18879723 - 09/23/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Good to know you are spiritually discerned.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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PocketLady



Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
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Re: And Er, Judah's firstborn, was wicked in the sight of the Lord; and the Lord slew him [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
#18883489 - 09/24/13 04:40 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarkostheGnostic said: It's interesting how the God of the Old Testament is so different to the God of the New Testament. They are almost like two completely different figures.
Exactly the point in Harold Bloom's book. YHWH and the Father are described in vastly different ways. No wonder the Gnostics came up with an evil Demiurge as well as the True God. This Gnostic notion was repeated in The Matrix trilogy. There was the True Creator of the sky and sun that Neo caught a vision of, and there is the machine world of the Architect, the Demiurge of The Matrix, enforced by the Agents, which are the Archons (powers) in Gnosticism.

Personally I think taking the Bible literally is a very very big mistake. The stories are allegory. They are symbolic
Yes, 4 or 5 levels of interpretation are noted by scholars of the Tenach: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pardes_(Jewish_exegesis)
Interesting. Yeah I'm aware that The Matrix is a Gnostic film and can definitely see the parallels. I'll check out the book.
I'd imagine that to understand the Torah or the Old Testament properly one would have to be able to understand Hebrew?
-------------------- Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity. The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death. Tomorrow, when resurrection comes, The heart that is not in love will fail the test. ~ Rumi The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny. ~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir
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