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InvisibleShins
Fun guy
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Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: psilynut]
    #18874155 - 09/21/13 10:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Don't get me wrong I think schools are a good thing.  I just think you get a better quality of service when there is competative voluntary free markets rather thsn government price fixing


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http://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/


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Offlinepsilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: Shins]
    #18874261 - 09/21/13 11:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

How the fuck to you pretend to apply competitive free market to higher education ?  Eliminating student loans won't make  the degree program from my wife's school any cheaper or better. You dont get in because of how much you are willing to pay or because no one wants to pay .  You get in on previous academic performance . If it wasn't for a govt loan they would just go down the list of people dumber than her until they found someone who has a pile cash . You aren't going to produce good engineers doing that.
    She got her job  because they recruit there , because the school has an awesome reputation for producing great engineers , this is what determines the price , it has nothing to do with the loans . You have no idea what your talking about at all .
  Only half of the  the parents living in this country can afford to pay for their kids college tuition. Take away student loans and we won't have enough people to fulfill all of the engineering , doctor , science , and other really skilled jobs that make the world the technological marvel that it is .
  Takes an army of engineers to operate a petroleum refinery .


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InvisibleSimplicitry
Just another mushroom lover
Male


Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: psilynut]
    #18874621 - 09/22/13 03:16 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I have no problem with student loans. After all, it's not free money, they pay it back.

But, it depends on the degree the person is receiving as to wether or not they're getting fucked by the system. 
 
For example,  if you become an engineer, accountant, physician, attorney, chemist, etc... While being responsible with the money you borrow You're probably investing well.

In contrast if you take out a mountain of debt over a degree in sociology, theology,  history, etc... You're probably getting fucked.

That of course has nothing to do with cost inefficiencies in higher education in America which is a different subject all together


--------------------

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society.

I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal."

"Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"


Edited by Simplicitry (09/22/13 03:26 AM)


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: qman] * 1
    #18874713 - 09/22/13 04:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

qman said:
Why you continue to think the D's are better than the R's is silly, they BOTH suck.

Try to be intellectually honest and admit the economy is worst today than it was 5-6 years ago for 90% of Americans, and it has NOTHING to do with Obama, I don't blame Obama, it's just a economic fact.

Always having a agenda when talking about complex economic issues always turns into a pissing contest, both parties are essentially the same, the R vs D is mainly for show.




--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: psilynut] * 1
    #18875288 - 09/22/13 10:04 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
Quote:

Quote:

Shins said:


you thought that money helps students?  It in fact goes straight to the schools and in fact leaves students holding the bag of student debt.






My wife owes about 25gs on her student loan. Her degree got her a job that pays 110000 a year , plus a 12000 bonus depending on profits , and a raise every year .  It's more like a coin purse of debt . I know allot of people like her . It helps I promise , we have 4 cars and a giant house to prove it . It helps people who  are smart enough to see the value in it and put in the effort.  It absolutely does not help people who aren't smart enough to see it and don't even bother to try.


You have 4 cars and a giant house and haven't paid off the pittance?.  What is this magic degree, by the way?  http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennagoudreau/2012/05/15/best-top-most-valuable-college-majors-degrees/
Quote:


  She will probably top out at the end of her career around 150 gs a year or so  like my neighbor who works at a place making cancer drugs. He paid off his loans along time ago.  People who go to school get loans and get good jobs end up paying allot of money in taxes ,
which helps us give cash to poor starving people , fund student loans, and pay for (and have smart people to build) bombs that we can use to threaten people who piss us off.




That's wonderful.  What percentage of college students do you suppose are enrolled in hard science and what percentage of the population do you suppose could get through it?  I'm going to guess that less than 10% could no matter how hard they tried.  Face it, most of the people going to college today, unlike when I went 35 years, have no business being there.  They have watered down the curriculum to let them stay and are selling most of them an utterly useless product.
Quote:


Perhaps the reason schools are so liberal is  because educated people are smart enough to see that education and studen loans do in fact help people out , helps them to do the really important jobs that make the world a more awesome place to live in .




The schools are liberal because the academy is a safe haven for wimps with no balls.  In other words, liberals.  Smart conservatives go out into the real world and produce things of real value.
Quote:

 
  I mean would you rather live in a world with a decent percentage of people like that or a world full of people who think school is worthless ,  loans are bad , govt is stupid and are only qualified to use shovels spatulas and hammers?




I would happily live in a world with zero art history or sociology majors.


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Offlinepsilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18876479 - 09/22/13 03:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

You have 4 cars and a giant house and haven't paid off the pittance?.  What is this magic degree, by the way?  http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennagoudreau/2012/05/15/best-top-most-valuable-college-majors-degrees/




And a travel trailer . It's Chem  E and there's nothing magic about it.    She started at 90 sumin . Obama said we didn't have to pay yet . Don't blame us.


Quote:



That's wonderful.  What percentage of college students do you suppose are enrolled in hard science and what percentage of the population do you suppose could get through it?  I'm going to guess that less than 10% could no matter how hard they tried.  Face it, most of the people going to college today, unlike when I went 35 years, have no business being there.  They have watered down the curriculum to let them stay and are selling most of them an utterly useless product.





Could be 10% . This is why we have student loans . Being born into a family with money to pay doesn't mean you got what it takes. We'd never get the cream of the crop.


Quote:



The schools are liberal because the academy is a safe haven for wimps with no balls.  In other words, liberals.  Smart conservatives go out into the real world and produce things of real value.




Most chemical engineers  I know work in oil refineries making gas , and everything else related to it.
It's real important, and valuable . It's allows people like you to go out in the world in a truck , pickup an illegal at home depot and produce nails in wood. What are these things of value you speak of? I guess mr 9 9 9  would be a good example . You still need college educated engineer to make better pizza ovens,  electrical engineers to keep the lights on , civil engineers to make sure the roads work efficiently so your delivery guys can deliver on time, and there's probably a mechanical engineer behind the nail making process improving efficiency , which Increases profits and makes nails cheaper .


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: psilynut]
    #18876568 - 09/22/13 03:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
Quote:

You have 4 cars and a giant house and haven't paid off the pittance?.  What is this magic degree, by the way?  http://www.forbes.com/sites/jennagoudreau/2012/05/15/best-top-most-valuable-college-majors-degrees/




And a travel trailer . It's Chem  E and there's nothing magic about it.    She started at 90 sumin . Obama said we didn't have to pay yet . Don't blame us.




I figured it had to be something like that.  My step son has a Chem E from Columbia and he's going for his PhD at Penn.  What do you mean Obama said you didn't have to pay?  Isn't it stupid not to just pay it off?  Interest is accruing.
Quote:




Quote:



That's wonderful.  What percentage of college students do you suppose are enrolled in hard science and what percentage of the population do you suppose could get through it?  I'm going to guess that less than 10% could no matter how hard they tried.  Face it, most of the people going to college today, unlike when I went 35 years, have no business being there.  They have watered down the curriculum to let them stay and are selling most of them an utterly useless product.





Could be 10% . This is why we have student loans . Being born into a family with money to pay doesn't mean you got what it takes. We'd never get the cream of the crop.




Really?  You think 10% of the general population of students could get a Chem E degree?  You might want to run that one by your wife.  I would guess it is less than 1%.  Student loans have nothing to do with that.
Quote:




Quote:



The schools are liberal because the academy is a safe haven for wimps with no balls.  In other words, liberals.  Smart conservatives go out into the real world and produce things of real value.




Most chemical engineers  I know work in oil refineries making gas , and everything else related to it.
It's real important, and valuable . It's allows people like you to go out in the world in a truck , pickup an illegal at home depot and produce nails in wood. What are these things of value you speak of? I guess mr 9 9 9  would be a good example . You still need college educated engineer to make better pizza ovens,  electrical engineers to keep the lights on , civil engineers to make sure the roads work efficiently so your delivery guys can deliver on time, and there's probably a mechanical engineer behind the nail making process improving efficiency , which Increases profits and makes nails cheaper .




Which has not one thing to do with the cowardice of academics, does it?  The more you go into real science and work in the real world the more likely you are to be conservative.  Even within the academy real science academics are more conservative than their bullshit artist peers.  What's Mr 9 9 9?  I have immense respect for engineers.  Now will you please explain why we need a million sociology majors?

http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2011/11/college-has-been-oversold.html

Quote:

Over the past 25 years the total number of students in college has increased by about 50 percent. But the number of students graduating with degrees in science, technology, engineering and math (the so-called STEM fields) has remained more or less constant. Moreover, many of today’s STEM graduates are foreign born and are taking their knowledge and skills back to their native countries.

Consider computer technology. In 2009 the U.S. graduated 37,994 students with bachelor’s degrees in computer and information science. This is not bad, but we graduated more students with computer science degrees 25 years ago! The story is the same in other technology fields such as chemical engineering, math and statistics. Few fields have changed as much in recent years as microbiology, but in 2009 we graduated just 2,480 students with bachelor’s degrees in microbiology — about the same number as 25 years ago. Who will solve the problem of antibiotic resistance?

If students aren’t studying science, technology, engineering and math, what are they studying?

In 2009 the U.S. graduated 89,140 students in the visual and performing arts, more than in computer science, math and chemical engineering combined and more than double the number of visual and performing arts graduates in 1985.

The chart at right shows the number of bachelor’s degrees in various fields today and 25 years ago. STEM fields are flat (declining for natives) while the visual and performing arts, psychology, and communication and journalism (!) are way up.

As a result, an argument can be made for subsidizing students in fields with potentially large spillovers, such as microbiology, chemical engineering, nuclear physics and computer science. There is little justification for subsidizing sociology, dance and English majors.

College has been oversold. It has been oversold to students who end up dropping out or graduating with degrees that don’t help them very much in the job market. It also has been oversold to the taxpayers, who foot the bill for these subsidies.





He says there is little justification.  I say there is none.  Most of them shouldn't be in college at all.


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Offlinepsilynut
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Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18876682 - 09/22/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Which has not one thing to do with the cowardice of academics, does it?  The more you go into real science and work in the real world the more likely you are to be conservative.  Even within the academy real science academics are more conservative than their bullshit artist peers.  What's Mr 9 9 9?  I have immense respect for engineers.  Now will you please explain why we need a million sociology majors?



You already forgot about Herman Cain? Mr pizza ? Or do you just block him out?
Bullshit , conservative are few and far between where my wife works .
Quote:



Really?  You think 10% of the general population of students could get a Chem E degree?  You might want to run that one by your wife.  I would guess it is less than 1%.  Student loans have nothing to do with that.



  I was talking about all engineering and science shit , and so were you degrees that are worth it .
  If it wasn't for a student loan my wife and allot of the people she went to school with wouldn't be engineers.
I  didn't say  college isn't oversold , I just said student loans do intact help some students.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: psilynut]
    #18876779 - 09/22/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
Quote:

Which has not one thing to do with the cowardice of academics, does it?  The more you go into real science and work in the real world the more likely you are to be conservative.  Even within the academy real science academics are more conservative than their bullshit artist peers.  What's Mr 9 9 9?  I have immense respect for engineers.  Now will you please explain why we need a million sociology majors?



You already forgot about Herman Cain? Mr pizza ? Or do you just block him out?
Bullshit , conservative are few and far between where my wife works .





Yes, I did forget about 9 9 9.  Why should I remember it?  Regarding your wife's workplace I can't say anything about that, can I, since I don't know where she works?  But it is an irrefutable fact that hard science professors are more likely to be conservative than their bullshit colleagues
Quote:


Quote:



Really?  You think 10% of the general population of students could get a Chem E degree?  You might want to run that one by your wife.  I would guess it is less than 1%.  Student loans have nothing to do with that.



  I was talking about all engineering and science shit , and so were you degrees that are worth it .
  If it wasn't for a student loan my wife and allot of the people she went to school with wouldn't be engineers.
I  didn't say  college isn't oversold , I just said student loans do intact help some students.




Of course they help some students.  They fuck far more students than they help though.  Like the man said, I have no problem subsidizing STEM students.  Unfortunately they are quite the minority and the rest get saddled with a useless degree and a vicious debt.  Further there is far too much of it subsidizing private universities when there are perfectly good state schools with much lower tuition costs.  Think of all the low IQ private colleges that are making bank admitting millions of students who have no business going to college and are in fact wasting valuable learning time.  Years they will never get back.  Then there are all the idiots being encouraged who drop out long before they get a degree but nonetheless still owe the money and have lost precious time.  It's a scam for a lot of people.


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
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Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18876820 - 09/22/13 04:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

How could you forget the 9-9-9 plan when similar plans are being pimped by the radical right on a daily basis?


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Offlinepsilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18876844 - 09/22/13 05:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yes it can be a double edged sword.  I knew  I wasnt college material . Union construction apprenticeship worked well for me. Really helped me get my contractors license since my time in school counted towards the experience need.  Trying to do what you say conservatives do but I'm not gunna be one .

How could you forget , he was your front runner against Obama for like 2 days.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18876915 - 09/22/13 05:16 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mush4Brains said:
How could you forget the 9-9-9 plan when similar plans are being pimped by the radical right on a daily basis?



There is no such thing as a radical right in America, what similar plans are you referring to and what is wrong with the 999 plan.  In your own words please.


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: psilynut]
    #18876927 - 09/22/13 05:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
Yes it can be a double edged sword.  I knew  I wasnt college material . Union construction apprenticeship worked well for me. Really helped me get my contractors license since my time in school counted towards the experience need.  Trying to do what you say conservatives do but I'm not gunna be one .

How could you forget , he was your front runner against Obama for like 2 days.




Yeah, two days.  I like him.  What is your objection to the 999 plan?  In your own words please.

Why the fuck would they count time in unrelated school towards a contractor's license and why should you need one?


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
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Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18877029 - 09/22/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)



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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: Mush4Brains]
    #18877177 - 09/22/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Keep drinking that Koolaid

Quote:

“There’s a reason Republicans senators like Senator McCain and others are saying this is absolutely insane because the Republican proposition here is they're going to shut down the government if they can't deny healthcare to millions of Americans, including millions of kids who are right now benefiting from the Affordable Care Act, kids with pre-existing conditions who can no longer be thrown off of their insurance policies,” Van Hollen, the top Democrat on the House Budget Committee, said on ABC’s “This Week.”




The Republicans in the House passed a spending bill.  If anybody shuts down the government it will be the Dems

Quote:

And yet they passed the budget that only comes to balance because of it.





This is, of course, a lie.  It has always been a lie that this would save money for the taxpayer.

Quote:

Rep. Tom Graves (R-Ga.), who’s been leading the effort in the House to defund ObamaCare, said on the same show that since the election, President Obama “has amended, delayed, or repealed 19 components of his very own law.”

“So if it's so good for America, then why he is delaying it for his friends in big business? Why is he delaying it for members of Congress like yourself?” he asked.





Good questions Congressman.  Why are unions screaming against it?  Why do the American people oppose it?  Why do members of Congress and their staffs hate it?


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18877345 - 09/22/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I have yet to see the objections to 999 from either of you.


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18877474 - 09/22/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It's fucking stupid.


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Offlinepsilynut
aka Patchraper

Registered: 10/22/09
Posts: 1,244
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18877858 - 09/22/13 08:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:



Yeah, two days.  I like him.  What is your objection to the 999 plan?  In your own words please.

Why the fuck would they count time in unrelated school towards a contractor's license and why should you need one?



No objection , I like him too, I was just using him as a example of someone who went out and made something of real value . Pizza is awesome. You know what never mind.

  If you want to be a masonry contractor and start a masonry business , they will count your apprenticeship time( since it's related)  towards the years of experience required to obtain it. You need 4 years at the journeymen level , provable years . The app  counts for 3 years , ( it's 4 years long) so you can get a license 1year after you finish I'm not sure about the time but same deal for other trades, in California.  You have to take a test too. School helps for that.
    I need it because that's the only way I could go work for a general contractor to let's say put some stone on a new housing project, walmart or Walgreens .  I could redo firebrick in oil refineries in their furnaces for you guessed it.. Making gas .  So I can do commercial work with the big boys and make big money . Without it I'll be stuck working for homeowners  who are looking to save a buck by hiring unlicensed uninsured people  who hire out of the HD parking lot or I'll have to work for other contractors  , decent money there, but not real money.  Can't believe you even asked me that.

Quote:



The Republicans in the House passed a spending bill.  If anybody shuts down the government it will be the Dems






It's your party saying " let's shut down the govt"  There saying " let's shut down the whooole thing" Do I need to post a video?
In the last election 1guy was saying ill do away with obamacare and the other guy was saying my healthcare bill is awesome and it's staying .
  Refresh my memory who did the people vote for in that election again? Who was it that won?
Do you honestly think this will turn out any different than the last time when the two serial adulterers faced off over it years ago?


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OfflineMush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
Posts: 4,419
Last seen: 9 years, 3 months
Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: psilynut]
    #18879125 - 09/23/13 02:42 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Ted Cruz announces he will fillibuster the house CR bill, because he knows the defunding segment will be taken out of it after cloture.

:lolsy:

No radical right?  He's filibustering his own ideas.  That's it, I'm done, I'm going home.





Edited by Mush4Brains (09/23/13 02:51 AM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
Re: Harvard Liberals are a bunch of idiots. [Re: psilynut]
    #18880554 - 09/23/13 01:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psilynut said:
Quote:



Yeah, two days.  I like him.  What is your objection to the 999 plan?  In your own words please.

Why the fuck would they count time in unrelated school towards a contractor's license and why should you need one?



No objection , I like him too, I was just using him as a example of someone who went out and made something of real value . Pizza is awesome. You know what never mind.

  If you want to be a masonry contractor and start a masonry business , they will count your apprenticeship time( since it's related)  towards the years of experience required to obtain it. You need 4 years at the journeymen level , provable years . The app  counts for 3 years , ( it's 4 years long) so you can get a license 1year after you finish I'm not sure about the time but same deal for other trades, in California.  You have to take a test too. School helps for that.
    I need it because that's the only way I could go work for a general contractor to let's say put some stone on a new housing project, walmart or Walgreens .  I could redo firebrick in oil refineries in their furnaces for you guessed it.. Making gas .  So I can do commercial work with the big boys and make big money . Without it I'll be stuck working for homeowners  who are looking to save a buck by hiring unlicensed uninsured people  who hire out of the HD parking lot or I'll have to work for other contractors  , decent money there, but not real money.  Can't believe you even asked me that.






Anybody here can start a masonry contracting business, no special license required, just a remodeling license that is nothing but a proof of insurance credential.  There is some tiny test about some simple things.  It's basically the written driving test.  Apprenticeship, licensing for that trade?  Nothing at all.  I never heard of a masonry license.  I think you are talking only about union requirements not general ones.  I could be wrong since you don't live where I do and the laws are quite Balkanized in this regard. 
Quote:



Quote:



The Republicans in the House passed a spending bill.  If anybody shuts down the government it will be the Dems






It's your party saying " let's shut down the govt"  There saying " let's shut down the whooole thing" Do I need to post a video?
In the last election 1guy was saying ill do away with obamacare and the other guy was saying my healthcare bill is awesome and it's staying .
  Refresh my memory who did the people vote for in that election again? Who was it that won?
Do you honestly think this will turn out any different than the last time when the two serial adulterers faced off over it years ago?




They passed a spending bill and sent it to the Senate.  This is an irrefutable fact.  The Dems in the Senate can pass it and the President can sign it.  If neither happens it will be the Dems who "shut down" the government. 

Who is it who won?  From my recollection every single Republican in the House of Representatives won their elections.  Spending bills are initiated in the House, the election winners of their districts.  The People, in every poll I see, do not want Obamacare.  Ergo the House of Representatives is doing what it is supposed to do.  Represent the Paople.  The Dems in the Senate and Obama are not.


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