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krunkmaster
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is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? UPDATE: it's fruiting now!
#18873468 - 09/21/13 07:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I spawned to this tub on 9/8 so it's been colonizing for 2 weeks. it's been hard to tell if it's actually progressing anymore for the last few days (this might be a result of not mixing thoroughly enough). I was really hoping to have this tub harvested by 10/5 for an event I was planning to attend, but with how long this is taking to colonize I'm starting to really cut it close. it doesn't look 100% to me, maybe closer to like 85-90%.
   
so my question to you guys: would you expect contam problems if I were to put it into fruiting conditions right now? I know ideally I would let it reach 100% colonization then wait a few more days for consolidation. however, I don't mind a reduced harvest if it means getting the first flush harvested in time for 10/5.
sorry the pictures aren't great, this is the best I could manage without opening the tub.
thanks in advance!
Edited by krunkmaster (09/27/13 09:23 AM)
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18875513 - 09/22/13 11:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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anyone?
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bodhisatta 
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18875558 - 09/22/13 11:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would fruit it if it were mine probably especially after 2 weeks. I would also wait for someone else to give an opinion though I've only done bulk a handful of times.
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: bodhisatta]
#18875734 - 09/22/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
bodhisatta said: I would fruit it if it were mine probably especially after 2 weeks. I would also wait for someone else to give an opinion though I've only done bulk a handful of times.
thanks dude! hopefully I can get a few more people weighing in. this is my first bulk grow so I don't know nearly enough to feel confident with either decision
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Mad Season
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18875742 - 09/22/13 12:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I can't really see it well but it looks like it should be left a few days. Needs to consolidate. The shrooms tell u when they're ready. A good indicator is seeing pins before you fruit.
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: Mad Season]
#18876143 - 09/22/13 02:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: I can't really see it well but it looks like it should be left a few days. Needs to consolidate. The shrooms tell u when they're ready. A good indicator is seeing pins before you fruit.
I am definitely willing to do this if necessary. if you had to guess though (and I realize it's impossible to be accurate), when is the latest I'd be able to introduce it to fruiting conditions and still get some fruits in time for 10/5?
I think I remember almost a week passing before I saw pins with BRF cakes, and maybe another 3-4 days before they were ready to be picked. so using extremely inexact science, I'd have to introduce fruiting conditions here in the next 2 days or so if I was going to make my target.
ultimately though I'm willing to miss the goal if it's the only way I'll get anything
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FrankHorrigan
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: Mad Season]
#18876166 - 09/22/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: I can't really see it well but it looks like it should be left a few days. Needs to consolidate. The shrooms tell u when they're ready. A good indicator is seeing pins before you fruit.
Outdated info.
Consolidation is for highly nutritious substrates like BRF + verm. The myc needs time to digest the substrate.
However, bulk is low nutrient and will perform better when fruited at 100%. Since FAE is the number one pinning trigger, there is no reason to wait to see pins.
OP, your tub is not at 100%. Wait until it is completely covered in white.
If it looks like that after two weeks, there may be an issue. How did you prepare the grains and the substrate?
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18876377 - 09/22/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said: OP, your tub is not at 100%. Wait until it is completely covered in white.
If it looks like that after two weeks, there may be an issue. How did you prepare the grains and the substrate?
for the grains I followed RR's 5 Steps to Perfect Grain Spawn video pretty much to the T. the jars took 2-3 weeks to fully colonize. I used 2.5 quarts of spawn.
my substrate preparation was a little more suspect. it's coir/verm (+ gypsum) exactly as described in damion5050's coir thread. I used bucket pasteurization, and I also ended up having to add more substrate than I had expected to reach the desired depth in the tub. I'm worried the spawn ratio may be a little low, but I don't have exact numbers on hand.
for what it's worth, I'm using a smaller tub (27qt). I have it sitting in my sunroom 24/7 with the shades closed. the temperature in my place tends to range from 74-76F. I was wondering if it's possible that too much moisture escaped through the lid imperfections, though I've read many times that imperfect lids are actually desirable. here's some pics both without and with flash:
 
as an aside, I'm glad to see you here Frank, as I've been reading tons and tons of your threads over the last month or two. you've certainly got my respect ...although I wish you were here to offer brighter news!
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18877485 - 09/22/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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one thing I just noticed... I can see tiny beads of water all over the surface of the substrate. I assume it's dripping down from the lid, which has quite a lot of condensation on it. could that be an issue, or is that normal?
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FrankHorrigan
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18877577 - 09/22/13 07:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I bet you didn't evenly mix your spawn and substrate as I detail here, did you?
That will result in your slow colonization.
Let it go until 100%.
Condensation on the surface is completely normal. It is because your mycelium generates a bit of heat.
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18877640 - 09/22/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am inclined to think you're right that I didn't mix it enough. I'm guessing what happened is that the substrate I added last didn't get mixed as well as the stuff before it. if so, the top would obviously have far less spawn. I get nervous when doing something like this for the first time, and when I get nervous I get careless.
anyway, thanks man! I'll just let it sit a few more days and keep an eye on it then. not too torn up about missing that date.
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18889956 - 09/25/13 03:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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so it's been about 3 days... here's where it's at. there's been a slight improvement, but it's still not pure white like the average pics I see on here. again, sorry for the crappy pics, but it's hard without opening the tub:

I've noticed what looks like some knotting/growths starting to appear though. don't have enough experience to say what it is for sure, but there's definitely a few vertical growths of some kind:

what do you guys think? let it go a few more days still? it doesn't seem like it's ever going to hit 100% for some reason, but I'm the noob here, so I am all ears!
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nepter627
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18890037 - 09/25/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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you can open the tub just dont open it alot.
your able to open it and peek in/ snap a photo.
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: nepter627]
#18890112 - 09/25/13 04:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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alright, I trusted you on that one here's some new pics, without and with flash:

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Skinty
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: nepter627]
#18890130 - 09/25/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Open it, take a peek and a decent photo. You can't see what's happening properly through all the condensation.
Also - that looks like a pin in the pic?! If so then go ahead and fruit it as I understand it as it won't be colonizing any more - 100% colonization (being able to colonize as much as possible - contams can get in the way of it "looking" 100%) is a major pinning trigger
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nepter627
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: Skinty]
#18890145 - 09/25/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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dont quote me on this but i would put it to fruit.
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: nepter627]
#18890540 - 09/25/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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alright, I'll go ahead and fruit it tomorrow then if nobody else objects. i'll give it one more night for a last ditch effort to finish off the remaining spots.
just to make sure I have the mono fruiting process down...
- 6500K bulb hanging above (slightly to the side) on 12 on/off interval
- fan on, set to low, pointing anywhere other than directly at the tub
- bottom holes stuffed tight with polyfill, top holes stuffed much more loosely
- adjust top holes as needed if RH appears off
look good?
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Mad Season
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18890570 - 09/25/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It doesn't look like it's ready. It's still brownish and could probably wait a few more days. Wait til it's like pure white and looking sexy. Honestly you might get pins before then. Just fruit it if so but it looks to me like it could wait a few more days before exploding.
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: Mad Season]
#18890806 - 09/25/13 07:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: It doesn't look like it's ready. It's still brownish and could probably wait a few more days. Wait til it's like pure white and looking sexy. Honestly you might get pins before then. Just fruit it if so but it looks to me like it could wait a few more days before exploding.
is it possible that it will just never reach 100% for some reason? I am looking at pics from ~1.5 weeks ago and it looks like it has barely progressed in that time. the first week I saw it spreading rapidly, but now it seems like it's pretty much stopped. I smelled it when I opened it up and it smells great, and I don't see any signs of contamination, but I'm wondering if that's somehow what's keeping it from finishing off the rest of the tub.
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nepter627
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18890818 - 09/25/13 07:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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just fruit it.
it will continue colonizing while its fruiting i believe
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Mad Season
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18890830 - 09/25/13 07:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah sometimes they do that. Sometimes you won't have it fully colonized over the substrate. Chances are you opening the lid might be enough to start pins up. Still when I had the same problem I left it until there was only a small amount left uncolonized (which was a piece of loose poo chillin on top). So what's to lose by letting it chill? You have a more colonized substrate and if you initiated pinning you throw on poly fill when you see the first pin. Patience is key. As I'm sure you know.
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Mad Season
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: nepter627]
#18890847 - 09/25/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
nepter627 said: just fruit it.
it will continue colonizing while its fruiting i believe
No... contaminants will colonize it... we don't expose it for the purpose of not wanting any contaminants there in the first place. Ideally you fruit at 100% so there's no contamination but don't just fruit it because you're impatient. Fruit when it's not doing anything. I'll be willing to bet it's colonizing more and more every day. You're basically guaranteed fruits but why not try to get as many as possible? A few days won't hurt.
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: Mad Season]
#18891049 - 09/25/13 08:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said: Yeah sometimes they do that. Sometimes you won't have it fully colonized over the substrate. Chances are you opening the lid might be enough to start pins up. Still when I had the same problem I left it until there was only a small amount left uncolonized (which was a piece of loose poo chillin on top). So what's to lose by letting it chill? You have a more colonized substrate and if you initiated pinning you throw on poly fill when you see the first pin. Patience is key. As I'm sure you know.
oh yeah, patience is something you can't seem to have enough of in this hobby. I'm trying really hard not to get ahead of myself from excitement, but this is my first bulk grow and it's been months since I've seen any shrooms, so I am dying to fruit this thing 
I'll let it chill if you think contamination is still a serious concern (there's still quite a bit of visible coir so I don't doubt it). I guess I'm just wondering whether anything will ever happen if I don't make a move. assuming it doesn't succumb to contamination, will it definitely start to pin eventually? or could I be sitting here forever waiting when in reality it would pin immediately if put into fruiting conditions?
sorry for the barrage of questions, I've just got this combination of excitement that I'm so close and frustration that it's not quite getting there
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azur
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18891079 - 09/25/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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OP, you said you used " bucket pasteurization" Sorry, but that is not a real thing. Maybe even an oxymoron. Fruit it, see what happens. Next time do it right. Good luck.
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Mad Season
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18891085 - 09/25/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It will eventually pin. If it pins without it fully colonizing you can bet it's contamination. Still you'll get mushrooms regardless. I'd just put it into isolation. Also on a side note. If things go well you should be putting it into fruiting before pins come. Still it'll pin regardless of what you do or don't do.
Even if it is contaminated. Never underestimate mycelium. I've seen mycelium take over bacteria more times than I can count.
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azur
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: Mad Season]
#18891145 - 09/25/13 08:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Now listen folks I've got to tell you now I've been seeing the trich And I don't know how Bucket tek Oven tek It's all so easy WOW If you pasteurize in jars You'll have enough mushies to see stars Outdated information Will lead to contam invasion Just be bright And do it right Start today And throw that fucking bucket away
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: Mad Season]
#18891174 - 09/25/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: OP, you said you used " bucket pasteurization" Sorry, but that is not a real thing. Maybe even an oxymoron. Fruit it, see what happens. Next time do it right. Good luck.
I originally put pasteurization in quotes because I realize it's not technically pasteurization but it's serving a similar purpose and I am not really a fan of the word "tek." I assumed everybody would know what I was talking about since it's so commonly discussed here.
I plan to do proper pasteurization next time as per Frank's thread, but I was short on jars at the time and don't have autoclavable bags. I decided to go with a technique that seems to work for many people and told myself that I will be prepared next time. I apologize if I am looking into your post too much but I feel like it was kind of degrading towards me over some semantics and making a mistake that lots of noobs make. I'm the first one to admit I don't really know what I'm doing. if I thought otherwise, I wouldn't be in this thread asking for help. sorry to go on a rant but I just want to be clear that I am doing my best and not trying to take any shortcuts. I want to learn and succeed as much as anyone else, but I'm going to make some mistakes along the way 
Quote:
Mad Season said: It will eventually pin. If it pins without it fully colonizing you can bet it's contamination. Still you'll get mushrooms regardless. I'd just put it into isolation. Also on a side note. If things go well you should be putting it into fruiting before pins come. Still it'll pin regardless of what you do or don't do.
Even if it is contaminated. Never underestimate mycelium. I've seen mycelium take over bacteria more times than I can count.
thanks for the encouraging words man! I think I will wait until the 30th. if I notice no growth or pins at all, then I'll probably just fruit it, but if I see even minor improvements in colonization then I'll just let it keep going. can't get any good pictures of it, but I do have a few spots that look like they could be pinning, so I'm sure I'll find out soon what's going on.
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azur
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18891186 - 09/25/13 09:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Don't take it personal man. I sincerely wish you the best of luck. I'm short on jars atm too, because I have too much myc growing. I'll buy more jars tomorrow
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: azur]
#18891196 - 09/25/13 09:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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sorry man, I'm just really irritable lately because my dog's having some medical issues and they seem to be getting worse rather than better. already dropped like a thousand bones in the last 8 days and I don't exactly have a ton of spare money laying around. no offense taken 
edit: and of course I'm a little nervous about whether this grow is going to succeed!
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Edited by krunkmaster (09/25/13 09:10 PM)
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azur
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18891284 - 09/25/13 09:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I feel ya man. I dropped a lot of dough to save a dog years ago. Sucks. Hope he gets better.
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: azur]
#18897581 - 09/27/13 07:05 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I see a mushroom 
guess that means it's probably not going to colonize 100%, so there may be a contam problem in the end or something, but at least I know for sure now what to do with this!
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mastercultivator
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18897610 - 09/27/13 07:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Fruit it.
it looks like P. Cubensis of course.
Looks like you kept the conditions right.
So after 11 days of colonization I'd fruit. It was probably at 100% by then.
If your sub is tuned in you have no need to wait for consolidation unless you are using some straw in the mix and want to have an amazing first flush. Even then you only need a few more hours after 100% colonization. It will be (about) another 11 days before you harvest fruit after everything is said and done and the sub will still keep pulling nutrients and moisture to the mushrooms over this time.
Keep the environs right and keep going.
Deeper subs may take more than 11 days to fully colonize. Looks like you are doing everything right!
It can take longer than 11 days if you are at the wrong temp for colonization or moisture is off or working with low spawn rates. But you seem to be all good!
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krunkmaster
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there's actually quite a few of these!
I am going to fruit it right now. I don't have a fan but I'll pick one up later today. already moved it to a closet with a 6500k lamp, so now I just need to add some polyfill.
should I mist the walls a bit as well?
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azur
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18897975 - 09/27/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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That spot just north of the big mushy looks suspect. See how bright white it is? Hard to say looking at picks. Just be sure to provide a lot of fresh air.
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: azur]
#18898008 - 09/27/13 10:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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interesting, do you suggest just keeping an eye on it to see if it gets bigger? the tub smells great, but I'm guessing a contam would have to spread a decent amount before it would smell strong enough to override the fresh mushroom smell.
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azur
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18898075 - 09/27/13 10:26 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm not saying anything as it's difficult to tell things in photos. I just know that trich is bright white before it sporulates. Just keep doing what you're doing. Good job so far. Did you buy jars yet?
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: azur]
#18898146 - 09/27/13 10:57 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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thanks man. I have a decent # of jars stockpiled now, actually the biggest problem is finding a spot to keep them all in my tiny apartment lol
I've got 10 pints that I inoculated from an MS syringe about a week ago, so I am looking to see some colonization any day now. already getting excited to implement some of the things I want to do differently with the next tub.
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FrankHorrigan
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18898221 - 09/27/13 11:20 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
krunkmaster said:

there's actually quite a few of these!
I am going to fruit it right now. I don't have a fan but I'll pick one up later today. already moved it to a closet with a 6500k lamp, so now I just need to add some polyfill.
should I mist the walls a bit as well?
I think it looks great 
Run a small fan on low in the closet to start, then adjust your polyfill til you have good conditions.
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krunkmaster
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18898349 - 09/27/13 11:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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ahhhh man... I'm so excited! 
I'm going to go purchase a fan right now. I'll update with pics if there are any interesting developments.
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Mad Season
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18898885 - 09/27/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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On a side note. I always thought consolidation was waiting until the mycelium turns bright white and healthy looking, it can be fully colonized but still have that brown I'm still growing tinge. Nice looking pins. Get a fan going. MAKE SURE IT'S. POINTING AWAY FROM THE TUB. Contrary to popular belief I found that stuffing the bottom holes as tight as possible was detrimental. Still make sure the bottom holes are tighter packed than the top holes. The top holes should be very lightly packed.
You need to maintain a high amount of fresh air but not so much that you lose humidity. The humidity the tubs at right now is actually ideal. You just need fresh air.
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krunkmaster
Cannibal


Registered: 04/26/13
Posts: 117
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: Mad Season]
#18899778 - 09/27/13 05:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have the tub in my walk-in closet now with a small fan in there pointing 90 degrees to the right of the tub. for now i'm just leaving it on since the myc hasn't seen fresh air in a long time.
should I continue to leave the fan on, or put it on a timer? I have a timer that can do 30m cycles if needed. I was thinking I might put that on tomorrow.
as for the polyfill, I followed frank's technique. I'll keep an eye on it to see if it needs to be adjusted.
-------------------- Thou shalt not kill my vibe
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18899791 - 09/27/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Leave it on 24/7. If you dialed in the tub, you need only adjust how tight the top poly is to control your RH & FAE
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krunkmaster
Cannibal


Registered: 04/26/13
Posts: 117
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
#18899865 - 09/27/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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awesome, thanks for everything frank!
-------------------- Thou shalt not kill my vibe
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krunkmaster
Cannibal


Registered: 04/26/13
Posts: 117
Last seen: 2 years, 3 months
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Re: is this tub colonized enough for fruiting? [Re: krunkmaster]
#18906948 - 09/29/13 12:25 PM (10 years, 3 months ago) |
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-------------------- Thou shalt not kill my vibe
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