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OfflineMaverick
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About to brew my first Lager!
    #18872920 - 09/21/13 04:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Doing an all grain lager, the batch is going to be 5.5gallons and it's going to be a munich style lager.  I start brewing it tomorrow.  Brew details are below:


Quote:


BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Noble Munich Lager 1.0
Brewer: Maverick
Asst Brewer:
Style: Oktoberfest/Märzen
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (30.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 7.31 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.50 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal 
Bottling Volume: 5.60 gal
Estimated OG: 1.058 SG
Estimated Color: 9.8 SRM
Estimated IBU: 24.6 IBUs
Estimated ABV: 5.9 %
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 79.5 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt                  Name                                    Type          #        %/IBU       
9 lbs                Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)          Grain        1        72.0 %       
2 lbs                Munich Malt (9.0 SRM)                    Grain        2        16.0 %       
1 lbs                Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM)    Grain        3        8.0 %       
8.0 oz                Oats, Flaked (1.0 SRM)                  Grain        4        4.0 %       
0.50 oz              Santiam [6.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min        Hop          5        9.1 IBUs     
1.50 oz              Tettnang [4.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min        Hop          8        4.1 IBUs     
0.50 oz              Tettnang [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min        Hop          6        6.9 IBUs     
0.50 oz              Santiam [6.00 %] - Boil 15.0 min        Hop          7        4.5 IBUs     
1.0 pkg              Munich Lager (Wyeast Labs #2308) [124.21 Yeast        9        -           


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 12 lbs 8.0 oz
----------------------------
Name                  Description                            Step Temperat Step Time   
Mash In                Add 15.63 qt of water at 165.5 F        152.0 F      60 min       

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (1.37gal, 3.78gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:
------


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Now this is the recipe and I designed it, but I've already modified it for the Next time I brew (as I already have the ingredients put together for this).  Next time I eliminate the 2row pale and replace it with maris otter and adjust the ratio of otter to Munich malts!  It's gettin' fun!


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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: Maverick]
    #18872980 - 09/21/13 04:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Maris Otter is a brilliant grain, although I have only used it in Ales.

You have a dedicated, thermostat-controlled fridge to keep the fermenting temps low, I assume?


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: barong]
    #18873006 - 09/21/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It's not yet thermostat controlled but I do have a dedicated fridge!  It's about 52F at hottest temp and 35F coldest.  Eventually I'll get a dedicated controller for it!


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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: Maverick]
    #18873854 - 09/21/13 09:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Honestly if you're going to be lagering you need to be more specific than those temp ranges. 52 degrees is on the cold end, but the yeast will ferment, 35 however will kill the yeast and the wort will not ferment. Worst case scenario is random temperature swings between those two extremes, where the yeast will partially ferment the worst before throwing out some of the gnarliest off-flavors imaginable. Yeast hates inconsistent temperatures.


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: ApJunkie]
    #18874081 - 09/21/13 10:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

35F is for cold crashes.  I've monitored the temp for several days and it doesn't swing more than 3-4F.


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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: Maverick]
    #18874983 - 09/22/13 07:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
35F is for cold crashes.  I've monitored the temp for several days and it doesn't swing more than 3-4F.




Just wait till you get that full sulfur hit of the Munich 2308 when it really gets fermenting.  Don't put your face too close to the fermenter.  Might lose an eye.


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #18875000 - 09/22/13 07:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

As I said I'll be getting a temp control unit, but I'm sure I'll be fine until it arrives. The fridge is decent and the temp swings are minimal.  Besides during lagering (by the time the unit arrives it will be that phase anyway) you want to slowly drop the temp over the course of the 30 days and then crash it at the end, then raise it for a diacetyl rest.


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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: Maverick]
    #18875503 - 09/22/13 11:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
As I said I'll be getting a temp control unit, but I'm sure I'll be fine until it arrives. The fridge is decent and the temp swings are minimal.  Besides during lagering (by the time the unit arrives it will be that phase anyway) you want to slowly drop the temp over the course of the 30 days and then crash it at the end, then raise it for a diacetyl rest.




Yeah all good bro.  Just sayin' be amazed at how much sulfur.  It's something about lager yeast.  Then it goes away.

ps Your recipe looks OK.  A full pound of crystal, hmm maybe drop that down some.  8 oz?  The oats? Hmm I like them in a stout.  But if you think in a lager they will work then all good. 

Santiam hops I got a pound unopened.  Want to use them in something big.  Sounded good.  Have you used them before?

 


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Edited by LunarEclipse (09/22/13 11:16 AM)


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #18875527 - 09/22/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah in my next modification I reduced the crystal to about 8oz because i don't want it to be too caramelly, I was just trying for that munich/marzen oktoberfest style lager :smile:

I heard flaked oats will give it a little bit more head retention and mouthfeel but you have to give it a good protein rest.  I thought I'd give it a try this go-around.  It will most likely get removed from my next go-around with this recipe.

I've never used santium, but they smelled good.  Unfortunately my LHBS was out of a lot of good types of nobles so I went with something different.  I want to do all nobles in the next batch.


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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: Maverick]
    #18875596 - 09/22/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
Yeah in my next modification I reduced the crystal to about 8oz because i don't want it to be too caramelly, I was just trying for that munich/marzen oktoberfest style lager :smile:

I heard flaked oats will give it a little bit more head retention and mouthfeel but you have to give it a good protein rest.  I thought I'd give it a try this go-around.  It will most likely get removed from my next go-around with this recipe.

I've never used santium, but they smelled good.  Unfortunately my LHBS was out of a lot of good types of nobles so I went with something different.  I want to do all nobles in the next batch.




Cool cool.  I like your efforts towards a German.  And oats are good.  Here's a thought and what I always do with oats.  You spread them out on some foil on a cookie sheet, and let lightly toast at 325 F for an hour.

Yummy!

Cheers bro.


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OfflineApJunkie
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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: Maverick]
    #18880260 - 09/23/13 11:46 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
As I said I'll be getting a temp control unit, but I'm sure I'll be fine until it arrives. The fridge is decent and the temp swings are minimal.  Besides during lagering (by the time the unit arrives it will be that phase anyway) you want to slowly drop the temp over the course of the 30 days and then crash it at the end, then raise it for a diacetyl rest.




I'm not sure where you read that, but it's really not correct.

You want it at fermentation temps until 80% of expected attenuation is achieved, then you raise it for diacetyl rest.  Most people just turn off the fridge and let the active fermentation raise to wherever it wants to go. I like to keep a little control over the scenario and set my temp to about 70 so it doesn't get too warm. After 2-3 days of diacetyl rest you can crash it down to about 35-40 for however long to you want to lager that bitch to completion.

Doing your cold crash before the d-rest will not work. Cold crash is the end of fermentation and the yeast will either all be dead, or be dormant and diacetyl consumption will not happen. Additionally, you need to do it before your final gravity is reached. If there aren't any fermentable sugars left in the wort then the yeast won't have the energy to metabolize the diacetyl.


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OfflineApJunkie
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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #18880269 - 09/23/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

Maverick said:
Yeah in my next modification I reduced the crystal to about 8oz because i don't want it to be too caramelly, I was just trying for that munich/marzen oktoberfest style lager :smile:

I heard flaked oats will give it a little bit more head retention and mouthfeel but you have to give it a good protein rest.  I thought I'd give it a try this go-around.  It will most likely get removed from my next go-around with this recipe.

I've never used santium, but they smelled good.  Unfortunately my LHBS was out of a lot of good types of nobles so I went with something different.  I want to do all nobles in the next batch.




Cool cool.  I like your efforts towards a German.  And oats are good.  Here's a thought and what I always do with oats.  You spread them out on some foil on a cookie sheet, and let lightly toast at 325 F for an hour.

Yummy!

Cheers bro.




Second that. Oats are delicious in beer, but a light toast on them really makes it pop! 

I'm not sure you're going to see a need for a protein rest with that many oats though. Most likely you're using very well modified malts for the majority of your grist and diastatic conversion won't be lacking.  But on the other hand, 15 minutes at 135 before you raise it to your saccarification rest might help get you that classic dry lager attenuation.


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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: Maverick]
    #18880270 - 09/23/13 11:50 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
As I said I'll be getting a temp control unit, but I'm sure I'll be fine until it arrives. The fridge is decent and the temp swings are minimal.  Besides during lagering (by the time the unit arrives it will be that phase anyway) you want to slowly drop the temp over the course of the 30 days and then crash it at the end, then raise it for a diacetyl rest.




I'm not sure where you read that, but it's really not correct.

You want it at fermentation temps until 80% of expected attenuation is achieved, then you raise it for diacetyl rest.  Most people just turn off the fridge and let the active fermentation raise to wherever it wants to go. I like to keep a little control over the scenario and set my temp to about 70 so it doesn't get too warm. After 2-3 days of diacetyl rest you can crash it down to about 35-40 for however long to you want to lager that bitch to completion.

Doing your cold crash before the d-rest will not work. Cold crash is the end of fermentation and the yeast will either all be dead, or be dormant and diacetyl consumption will not happen. Additionally, you need to do it before your final gravity is reached. If there aren't any fermentable sugars left in the wort then the yeast won't have the energy to metabolize the diacetyl.


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: ApJunkie]
    #18880810 - 09/23/13 02:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Cold crashing shouldn't kill your yeast, or you'd have to repitch after every cold crash before bottling.  Bottles always carbonate after a cold crash for me.  I will agree though, cold crash after diacetyl rest, leaves more active yeast in suspension to scrub sulfur compounds.


Edited by Maverick (09/23/13 02:18 PM)


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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: ApJunkie]
    #18881118 - 09/23/13 03:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ApJunkie said:
Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

Maverick said:
Yeah in my next modification I reduced the crystal to about 8oz because i don't want it to be too caramelly, I was just trying for that munich/marzen oktoberfest style lager :smile:

I heard flaked oats will give it a little bit more head retention and mouthfeel but you have to give it a good protein rest.  I thought I'd give it a try this go-around.  It will most likely get removed from my next go-around with this recipe.

I've never used santium, but they smelled good.  Unfortunately my LHBS was out of a lot of good types of nobles so I went with something different.  I want to do all nobles in the next batch.




Cool cool.  I like your efforts towards a German.  And oats are good.  Here's a thought and what I always do with oats.  You spread them out on some foil on a cookie sheet, and let lightly toast at 325 F for an hour.

Yummy!

Cheers bro.




Second that. Oats are delicious in beer, but a light toast on them really makes it pop! 

I'm not sure you're going to see a need for a protein rest with that many oats though. Most likely you're using very well modified malts for the majority of your grist and diastatic conversion won't be lacking.  But on the other hand, 15 minutes at 135 before you raise it to your saccarification rest might help get you that classic dry lager attenuation.




You know what bro.  I think we just got off on the wrong foot or something.  I'm even brewing Belgians now.

Seriously.

3711 vs. 3726.


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OfflineApJunkie
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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #18883636 - 09/24/13 06:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:
Cold crashing shouldn't kill your yeast, or you'd have to repitch after every cold crash before bottling.  Bottles always carbonate after a cold crash for me.  I will agree though, cold crash after diacetyl rest, leaves more active yeast in suspension to scrub sulfur compounds.





I didn't say cold crashing killed your yeast, I said they would either be dead or dormant, and that statement is still 100% correct. Cold crashing doesn't kill them, but with a properly managed fermentation regimen, by the time you're done with your cold crash a majority of the yeast will be dormant, and some will be dead.  Of course you can still pitch from that, but you have to realize you're not at 100% viability after the initial generation. Ever.

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:

You know what bro.  I think we just got off on the wrong foot or something.  I'm even brewing Belgians now.

Seriously.

3711 vs. 3726.





Wyeast? What are you, fucking retarded?







:wink:


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: ApJunkie]
    #18883723 - 09/24/13 07:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ApJunkie said:
Quote:

Maverick said:
Cold crashing shouldn't kill your yeast, or you'd have to repitch after every cold crash before bottling.  Bottles always carbonate after a cold crash for me.  I will agree though, cold crash after diacetyl rest, leaves more active yeast in suspension to scrub sulfur compounds.





I didn't say cold crashing killed your yeast, I said they would either be dead or dormant, and that statement is still 100% correct. Cold crashing doesn't kill them, but with a properly managed fermentation regimen, by the time you're done with your cold crash a majority of the yeast will be dormant, and some will be dead.  Of course you can still pitch from that, but you have to realize you're not at 100% viability after the initial generation. Ever.






Oh of course, viability will go down.  I wasn't talking about reusing the yeast (not in that last post), I was talking about the first initial batch, you can cold crash it to clear it and it should still have yeast to bottle.  Like I said (we're pretty online on this) particulates fall from suspension as a they bind together (certain proteins) and yeast tend to fall out of suspension when going into dormancy as well.  So a diacetyl rest would be better before the cold crash.

As far as washing and reusing the yeast, I don't know about lager yeasts, but I think the third or fourth batch with the same yeast culture tend to be the sweet spot.


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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: Maverick]
    #18885007 - 09/24/13 01:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Hey Mavs, how'd brew day go?  I'm actually gearing up for a pumpkin wheat meself, brew day's probably Friday.  Haven't done any lagers yet, but that'll change soon enough :laugh:


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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: Maverick]
    #18885051 - 09/24/13 01:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Maverick said:

Oh of course, viability will go down.  I wasn't talking about reusing the yeast (not in that last post), I was talking about the first initial batch, you can cold crash it to clear it and it should still have yeast to bottle.  Like I said (we're pretty online on this) particulates fall from suspension as a they bind together (certain proteins) and yeast tend to fall out of suspension when going into dormancy as well.  So a diacetyl rest would be better before the cold crash.

As far as washing and reusing the yeast, I don't know about lager yeasts, but I think the third or fourth batch with the same yeast culture tend to be the sweet spot.




Hmm, we're definitely in agreeance here. I guess I was confused (I misread or you mistyped or something? :shrug:) because earlier I thought you said cold crash before the d-rest.

Slowly lowering the temperature for 30 days is still a weird approach though.... :smile:


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OfflineMaverick
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Re: About to brew my first Lager! [Re: ApJunkie]
    #18886409 - 09/24/13 07:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ApJunkie said:
Quote:

Maverick said:

Oh of course, viability will go down.  I wasn't talking about reusing the yeast (not in that last post), I was talking about the first initial batch, you can cold crash it to clear it and it should still have yeast to bottle.  Like I said (we're pretty online on this) particulates fall from suspension as a they bind together (certain proteins) and yeast tend to fall out of suspension when going into dormancy as well.  So a diacetyl rest would be better before the cold crash.

As far as washing and reusing the yeast, I don't know about lager yeasts, but I think the third or fourth batch with the same yeast culture tend to be the sweet spot.




Hmm, we're definitely in agreeance here. I guess I was confused (I misread or you mistyped or something? :shrug:) because earlier I thought you said cold crash before the d-rest.

Slowly lowering the temperature for 30 days is still a weird approach though.... :smile:




I did but didn't mean it in that order, i just accidentally mixed up my wording on my first post.


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