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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Voting: Thoughts, Questions & Quotes...
    #1887241 - 09/06/03 01:49 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Voting is an act of blind faith. A magical ritual to the gods of state. Oh government, hear our prayers...

How do we know the votes were fairly counted? How do we know they were even counted at all? How do we know that the 'results' are not pre ordained? Not in a mystical, religious sense, but in a bureaucratic, power hoarding sense.

Has your vote ever made a difference? Can you name one result of an election (not in school, but in real life) that you have participated in that has hinged on one or two votes? If not, why would you tell yourself that your vote counts?

"a defeat on principle is not an overthrow, while a victory by compromise is a defeat."
-- attributed to John C. Calhoun

Some say such things as , "I would vote for the Libertarians/Greens if they would have a chance of winning, so I vote for the lesser of two evils." This kind of thinking is actually a commitment to maintain the status quo, to support the trends which are robbing us of our liberties. For the status quo is not stasis, but a drift of the American experiment towards an ignoble end.

Can you answer this: Is not the lesser of two evils, still evil? What does your conscience tell you about supporting evil?

"What I was looking at was simply a tussle between... groups of mass-men... The object of the tussle was the material gains accruing from control of the State's machinery. It is easier to seize wealth than to produce it; and as long as the State makes the seizure of wealth a matter of legalized privilege, so long will the squabble for that privilege go on."
- Albert Jay Nock

"What happens in other forms of government -- namely, that an organized minority imposes its will on the disorganized majority -- happens also and to perfection, whatever the appearances to the contrary, under the representative system. When we say that the voters 'choose' their representative, we are using a language that is very inexact. The truth is that the representative has himself elected by the voters, and, if that phrase should seem too inflexible and too harsh to fit some cases, we might qualify it by saying that his friends have him elected. In elections, as in all other manifestations of social life, those who have the will and, especially, the moral, intellectual and material means to force their will upon others take the lead over the others and command them."
- G. Mosca, The Theory of the Ruling Class.

"Our democracy is but a name. We vote? What does that mean? It means that we chose between two bodies of real, though not avowed, autocrats, We choose between Tweedledum and Tweedledee."
-- Helen Keller

"If voting could change things, they'd make it illegal."
-- The Lords Of The New Church


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
 User Gallery

Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: Voting: Thoughts, Questions & Quotes... [Re: Autonomous]
    #1887258 - 09/06/03 01:53 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Helen Keller...I'd hit it.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Voting: Thoughts, Questions & Quotes... [Re: Autonomous]
    #1887269 - 09/06/03 01:56 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

I know I will have a very hard time voting in the next presidental election. There is not one candidate I've seen so far that does it for me at all. Its a tough one, because I feel obligated to vote since it is my right but don't like voting for something or someone I don't feel strongly about. Whether my vote really counts or not, who's to say? If everyone felt that their vote was worthless, who would be left to vote?


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Voting: Thoughts, Questions & Quotes... [Re: Autonomous]
    #1887701 - 09/06/03 04:57 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Some say such things as , "I would vote for the Libertarians/Greens if they would have a chance of winning, so I vote for the lesser of two evils." This kind of thinking is actually a commitment to maintain the status quo, to support the trends which are robbing us of our liberties. For the status quo is not stasis, but a drift of the American experiment towards an ignoble end.




I fucking hate defensive voting.Shit will never change because people that vote have this attitude.Because of this I'm voting third party this election,even though Bush is a spawn of Satan. My party isn't going to win,but I'll be able to sleep a little better at night.


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Offlinemonoamine
umask 077(nonefor you)

Registered: 09/07/02
Posts: 3,095
Loc: Jacksonville,FL
Last seen: 11 years, 6 months
Re: Voting: Thoughts, Questions & Quotes... [Re: afoaf]
    #1887709 - 09/06/03 05:01 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Helen Keller...I'd hit it.




She supposedly used to write a lot of political books,though I've never seen one.

Doesn't it make you feel great that someone who was deaf and blind has accomplished more in their life than you?


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People think that if you just say the word "hallucinations" it explains everything you want it to explain and eventually whatever it is you can't explain will just go away.It's just a word,it doesn't explain anything...
Douglas Adams


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,186
Loc: Lost In Space
Re: Voting: Thoughts, Questions & Quotes... [Re: Autonomous]
    #1887842 - 09/06/03 06:29 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Is not the lesser of two evils, still evil?



Yes.


[quote What does your conscience tell you about supporting evil?


That's it's better to have a partly evil leader than a totally evil one.



No-one will convince me that under our current system it's better to vote for a candidate that is the one closest to your philosophy if that will allow the candidate totally opposite of your philosophy into office.

I'm amazed more don't see that.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinelysergic
Mycophile!
Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 691
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
Re: Voting: Thoughts, Questions & Quotes... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1892565 - 09/08/03 01:26 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Hitler won the election within his party (NSDAP) by one vote, that one vote made him leader of the NSDAP and then, leader of a nation. I saw a poster that had about 50 such events on this, i'll find it and sent it to ya.


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In response to an attack killing 15 American Servicemen
PsiloKitten said:
Just give em a little more time, the iraqis are making great progress. And this is unorganized. Wait till they get organized.


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InvisibleAutonomous
MysteriousStranger

Registered: 05/10/02
Posts: 901
Loc: U.S.S.A.
Re: Voting: Thoughts, Questions & Quotes... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #1892713 - 09/08/03 02:17 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
... it's better to have a partly evil leader than a totally evil one.


No-one will convince me that under our current system it's better to vote for a candidate that is the one closest to your philosophy if that will allow the candidate totally opposite of your philosophy into office.

I'm amazed more don't see that.



A few more questions...

1) How long have you been using the this voting strategy?

2) During this period, have you seen your legal liberties diminish, increase or stay the same?

3) If current voting behaviors continue, will you see an increase in liberty or a decrease?

4) If everyone were to wait till he was sure that his political ideals were popular enough to win before voting for them, could we realistically ever expect to see a change in the electoral results away from the current two party control?


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"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."
-- Mark Twain


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OfflineBaby_Hitler
Errorist
 User Gallery

Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 03/06/02
Posts: 22,840
Loc: To the limit!
Last seen: 6 months, 21 days
Re: Voting: Thoughts, Questions & Quotes... [Re: Autonomous]
    #1892746 - 09/08/03 02:28 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

We should have a three stage election in which the least popular are voted out untill there is only one.


This is besides the primaries I mean.


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OfflineSquattingMarmot
Inquiring Mind
Registered: 08/19/03
Posts: 418
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: Voting: Thoughts, Questions & Quotes... [Re: Autonomous]
    #1892785 - 09/08/03 02:44 AM (13 years, 7 months ago)

Stalin once said ?Those who cast the votes decide nothing. Those who count the votes decide everything.? How are we supposed to believe our votes count when the machines themselves are faulty?

New Zealand media blow lid off of US vote fraud.

How George Bush won the 2004 election.

The real scoop on Diebold.

Origins of American vote fraud


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"In the United States anybody can be president. Thats the problem."

"The gray-haired douche bag, Barbara Bush, has a slogan: "Encourage your child to read every day." What she should be is encouraging children to question what they read every day."

- George Carlin


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