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InvisibleIcelander
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Maybe I have been selfless all this time.
    #18871585 - 09/21/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I have come here for eight years trying to talk sense to a failing humanity.  I've suffered greatly in having to listen to what most of you have been thinking.

What say you?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleliquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18871637 - 09/21/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Why would I say what you want me to say?


--------------------
As far as I assume to know...


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Invisibletribesman
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18871676 - 09/21/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe this;

" (6) And thus Bodhisattvas are likened to peacocks:
They live on delusions poisonous plants.
Transforming them into the essence of practice,
They thrive the jungle of everyday life.
Whatever is presented they always accept
While destroying the poison of clinging desire."

~ from the wheel of sharp weapons.


--------------------
" No permanence is ours; we are a wave
That flows to fit whatever form it finds:
Through night or day, cathedral or the cave
We pass forever, craving form that binds."

~ Hermann Hesse, The Glass Bead Game


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Invisibletribesman
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: tribesman]
    #18871683 - 09/21/13 11:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

...or this interpretation;

" "In jungles of poisonous plants strut the peacocks,
Though medicine gardens of beauty lie near.

The masses of peacocks do not find gardens pleasant,

But thrive on the essence of poisonous plants,

In similar fashion the brave bodhisattvas

Remain in the jungle of worlds concern.

No matter how joyful this world pleasure garden,

These brave ones are never attracted to pleasures,

But thrive in the jungle of suffering and pain."


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Offlinecgsjames
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: liquidlounge] * 3
    #18871684 - 09/21/13 11:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I bow down to your obvious superiority....all hail op :hatsoff:  :flipthebird:


--------------------
What you eat don't make me shit and who you fuck don't make me come.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander] * 3
    #18871698 - 09/21/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It is possible, but not likely in my opinion considering you don't feel compassion, empathy, or love .


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander] * 3
    #18871785 - 09/21/13 11:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I have come here for eight years trying to talk sense to a failing humanity.  I've suffered greatly in having to listen to what most of you have been thinking.

What say you?







--------------------
Jesus loves you.


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InvisibleOeric McKenna
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: andrewss]
    #18871910 - 09/21/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What an odd post.
Its like you said
"I'm above you all....what do you guys think"?

Um.....seriously?

Well, we all have our issues. I wish you the best. Thats about it


--------------------


spread love
love is everything
2013 finds
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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18871968 - 09/21/13 12:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I have come here for eight years trying to talk sense to a failing humanity.  I've suffered greatly in having to listen to what most of you have been thinking.

What say you?




Can't say the truth of what's going on with you but I tend to think of your posts in that direction, the flood of ignorance on this board is stemmed by a handful of posters. How many people have learned from you during post-psychedelic vulnerable states where they might otherwise be corrupted by religious/spiritual bullshit?

I first came here as a teenager almost 10 years ago and have learned much from debating on these board, but if everyone on this board were spouting religious dogma and mystical cliches there would be nothing to learn here.


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Invisiblequinn
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18871974 - 09/21/13 12:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

most of us here are pretty wack..:shrug2:

i think your presence here has had a positive impact in many cases :yesnod:


--------------------
dripping with fantasy


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: teknix] * 1
    #18872019 - 09/21/13 12:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
It is possible, but not likely in my opinion considering you don't feel compassion, empathy, or love .




That's obviously not true.  I feel all of those things. Just not for self indulgent wimps. :haha:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: andrewss]
    #18872029 - 09/21/13 12:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

andrewss said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I have come here for eight years trying to talk sense to a failing humanity.  I've suffered greatly in having to listen to what most of you have been thinking.

What say you?










:lol: That's the spirit(ual).


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineKickleM
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18872109 - 09/21/13 01:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
What say you?




keep carrying your skull Yamantaka :thumbup:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibletribesman
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18872127 - 09/21/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)



How to crucify the ego? As it's yoyo'ing cycles are becoming more frequent. How do I subdue this delinquent and it's subsequent blindings.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander] * 5
    #18872142 - 09/21/13 01:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I have come here for eight years trying to talk sense to a failing humanity.  I've suffered greatly in having to listen to what most of you have been thinking.

What say you?




I told you years ago to quit your preaching.  Any suffering you have is karma for your preaching to others.  And how do you know what "most of you have been thinking"?

That's the problem with preachers.  They think they know more than the next person, and have to tell them why.

I'd make it personal, but you truly aren't "worth it".

So if you take your preaching elsewhere, like on a soap box or in an enclosed box, that would be great.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: tribesman]
    #18872399 - 09/21/13 02:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tribesman said:


How to crucify the ego? As it's yoyo'ing cycles are becoming more frequent. How do I subdue this delinquent and it's subsequent blindings.




What makes you think there's anything wrong with ego? Did a book tell you that?
Ever consider they might be lying to you or ignorant themselves?


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Invisibletribesman
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18872452 - 09/21/13 02:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Books tell lots of things, but no, isn't it the ego that
glories in feeling important, needed, wise; isn't the ego
that takes pain in the antithesis of the above mentioned
traits? I've come to realise that both self importance and
self abhorrence are a waist of emotion and energy. I don't
want to be subject to either.


--------------------
" No permanence is ours; we are a wave
That flows to fit whatever form it finds:
Through night or day, cathedral or the cave
We pass forever, craving form that binds."

~ Hermann Hesse, The Glass Bead Game


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18872719 - 09/21/13 03:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

teknix said:
It is possible, but not likely in my opinion considering you don't feel compassion, empathy, or love .




That's obviously not true.  I feel all of those things. Just not for self indulgent wimps. :haha:




:lol:

I thought you told me before you have never experienced love.


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: tribesman]
    #18872799 - 09/21/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tribesman said:
Books tell lots of things, but no, isn't it the ego that
glories in feeling important, needed, wise; isn't the ego
that takes pain in the antithesis of the above mentioned
traits?




Is it? Sounds like an illusion to me


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18872989 - 09/21/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I enjoy your contributions to this forum :thumbup:

..I still remember my first post here trying to prove the existence of god (We all know how that goes) when I ran into the user Icelander for the first time.  :braindamage:


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18872990 - 09/21/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

He listens to good music. Talking sense to a failing humanity on a biggish drug board on the internet isn't really the place to start though. Besides I think humanity is doing alright, we're just a little insane and it's not our fault. I think that's the game, to forget you are God and so produce a play.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18873172 - 09/21/13 05:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think you're a masochist whose loving true self has long since been brutalised into submission by the indulgent self-inflicted suffering of the false self :thumbup:

Actually there's no way of knowing if any given action or attitude is selfish or selfless unless you know what we're all doing here. So far, no-one has convinced me that they do.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: viktor] * 1
    #18873202 - 09/21/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

He is an Ice-o-lationist. :yesnod:


--------------------


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: circastes]
    #18873287 - 09/21/13 06:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
Talking sense to a failing humanity on a biggish drug board on the internet isn't really the place to start though.




Who's trying to change the world? They're a fool whoever they are


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: teknix]
    #18873448 - 09/21/13 07:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

teknix said:
It is possible, but not likely in my opinion considering you don't feel compassion, empathy, or love .




That's obviously not true.  I feel all of those things. Just not for self indulgent wimps. :haha:




:lol:

I thought you told me before you have never experienced love.




Like = love.  I just use different terms.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: viktor]
    #18873451 - 09/21/13 07:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
I think you're a masochist whose loving true self has long since been brutalised into submission by the indulgent self-inflicted suffering of the false self :thumbup:







You're mean:hissyfit:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18874517 - 09/22/13 01:40 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I knew it's what you wanted  :bashful:


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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OfflineMemories
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander] * 1
    #18874541 - 09/22/13 02:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I have come here for eight years trying to talk sense to a failing humanity.  I've suffered greatly in having to listen to what most of you have been thinking.

What say you?




I think the sadness felt towards the prevailing ignorance and dishonesty which you experience by posting here is outweighed by the fact that posting here makes you feel special.

People like us decide at some point that we crave knowing the truth, and attempting to find this truth is so important to our ego that we will keep digging no matter how much pain we unearth.

We looked for answers, found them, and were horrified by what we saw.

When you accomplish this, you realize how few people care more about the honest truth of affairs rather than building a worldview to comfort themselves.

Thinking that you are part of the small minority that can actually recognize what is happening by sticking to reason makes ones feel more intelligent than most people.


Edited by Memories (09/22/13 02:04 AM)


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Invisibletribesman
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18874650 - 09/22/13 03:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

tribesman said:
Books tell lots of things, but no, isn't it the ego that
glories in feeling important, needed, wise; isn't the ego
that takes pain in the antithesis of the above mentioned
traits?




Is it? Sounds like an illusion to me




What's an illusion; the ego, or the view that it is negative?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Memories]
    #18874708 - 09/22/13 04:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Memories said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I have come here for eight years trying to talk sense to a failing humanity.  I've suffered greatly in having to listen to what most of you have been thinking.

What say you?




I think the sadness felt towards the prevailing ignorance and dishonesty which you experience by posting here is outweighed by the fact that posting here makes you feel special.

People like us decide at some point that we crave knowing the truth, and attempting to find this truth is so important to our ego that we will keep digging no matter how much pain we unearth.

We looked for answers, found them, and were horrified by what we saw.

When you accomplish this, you realize how few people care more about the honest truth of affairs rather than building a worldview to comfort themselves.

Thinking that you are part of the small minority that can actually recognize what is happening by sticking to reason makes ones feel more intelligent than most people.





I think we have a winner... unfortunately. :lol:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18874714 - 09/22/13 04:57 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The conclusion from that appears to be that all desires, therefore all motivations, therefore all actions are egotistical.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: viktor]
    #18874741 - 09/22/13 05:33 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I tend to agree.  Those that claim selflessness usually have big ones that they pretend aren't there.  It's obvious to almost everyone but them. The only ones that go along are the ones that want to believe the same about themselves. I've made a point of pushing such peoples buttons here for many years to see if they really are selfless.  That's how I got such a big ignore list. :lol:  First they flame the fuck out of me in PM and then put me on ignore.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18874744 - 09/22/13 05:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

teknix said:
It is possible, but not likely in my opinion considering you don't feel compassion, empathy, or love .




That's obviously not true.  I feel all of those things. Just not for self indulgent wimps. :haha:




:lol:

I thought you told me before you have never experienced love.




Like = love.  I just use different terms.




Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, like doesn't = love in real life, only to Psychopaths.

Quote:


Psychopathy (/saΙͺˈkΙ’pΙ™ΞΈi/) (or sociopathy (/ˈsoʊsiΙ™ΛŒpæθi/)) is a personality trait or disorder characterised partly by enduring anti-social behavior, a diminished capacity for empathy or remorse,





Empathy and compassion are feelings that involve parts of love.

Nice try though.


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: teknix]
    #18874749 - 09/22/13 05:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: teknix]
    #18874814 - 09/22/13 06:29 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Like I stated, My like is your love.  I like my dogs and give them tender care and go out of my way to make them happy by choice.  That's hardly psychopathic.

I really don't think you know much about the "real" world or about psychopathology.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18875315 - 09/22/13 10:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I really don't think you know much about selfless.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: teknix] * 1
    #18875444 - 09/22/13 10:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It doesn't exist imo.  You are a self.  It may be illusionary ultimately but you act in this reality on that illusion. Every thing you do is ultimately to benefit yourself in some way or should I say your views on that self.  If I sacrifice myself for another it's because I value that perspective of what is best or good so highly that it supersedes any other needs or desires I have for myself.  If I didn't feel that way I would not make that sacrifice.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: tribesman]
    #18875691 - 09/22/13 12:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tribesman said:
Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

tribesman said:
Books tell lots of things, but no, isn't it the ego that
glories in feeling important, needed, wise; isn't the ego
that takes pain in the antithesis of the above mentioned
traits?




Is it? Sounds like an illusion to me




What's an illusion; the ego, or the view that it is negative?




The idea that the ego is negative, there is no proof that the ego is bad - it is a blind assumption passed down from the Inquisitors of the world.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18875693 - 09/22/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Indeedy:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: teknix]
    #18875699 - 09/22/13 12:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about, like doesn't = love in real life, only to Psychopaths.




And there is the naked truth, the argument you're actually trying to make. A personalism directed against someone who holds different views on "love" than you, the idea that anyone could think differently on the subject threatens the validity of your view so you resort to demonizing them.


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18876658 - 09/22/13 04:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
First they flame the fuck out of me in PM and then put me on ignore.




That is always funny. And quite telling. Would Jesus flame the shit out of somebody on the Shroomery? Doubt it


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: viktor]
    #18876729 - 09/22/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)



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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18876744 - 09/22/13 04:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Ah yes, condemned to burn for eternity by an all loving god.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18876762 - 09/22/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds like my ex


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18878699 - 09/23/13 12:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

tribesman said:
Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

tribesman said:
Books tell lots of things, but no, isn't it the ego that
glories in feeling important, needed, wise; isn't the ego
that takes pain in the antithesis of the above mentioned
traits?




Is it? Sounds like an illusion to me




What's an illusion; the ego, or the view that it is negative?




The idea that the ego is negative, there is no proof that the ego is bad - it is a blind assumption passed down from the Inquisitors of the world.




I found this description a few hours ago, it would appear to describe it
As ambivalent.

" In Buddhist psychology, ego is seen as a kind of filter, a network through which energy is constantly being channelled and manipulated rather than being able to flow freely in unrestricted space. It is not a solid entity but a moment-to-moment process."

So it is an adaptive algorithm?


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: tribesman] * 1
    #18878915 - 09/23/13 01:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think the idea is that you grow out of it once you're emotionally ready to be truly free.


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: viktor] * 1
    #18879286 - 09/23/13 05:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

funny:lol:  Great carrot for suckers imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18879638 - 09/23/13 08:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Selflessness for the establishment of clarity? Maybe not, yet still appreciated, at least by myself.

On the ego/self. Minimizing it's effect is the game. It will never be gone. We need that shit to survive/want to survive, yo.

Cheers


--------------------
hmm...

"I'm naked and fearless... And my fear is naked."

"life isn't worth living without the threat of death"

"I got my plans in a ziploc bag, let's see how unproductive we can be"

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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: viktor]
    #18879671 - 09/23/13 09:04 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
I think the idea is that you grow out of it once you're emotionally ready to be truly free.




Do you think the ego is just fed by emotion;
or reacts emotionally?


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: ashfiken]
    #18879701 - 09/23/13 09:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

ashfiken said:
Selflessness for the establishment of clarity? Maybe not, yet still appreciated, at least by myself.

On the ego/self. Minimizing it's effect is the game. It will never be gone. We need that shit to survive/want to survive, yo.

Cheers



:lol:  The selfless thing was mocking the term.  You know I don't believe in it.  And thanks. Nice to know it's occasionally appreciated.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: tribesman]
    #18879842 - 09/23/13 09:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tribesman said:

I found this description a few hours ago, it would appear to describe it
As ambivalent.

" In Buddhist psychology, ego is seen as a kind of filter, a network through which energy is constantly being channelled and manipulated rather than being able to flow freely in unrestricted space. It is not a solid entity but a moment-to-moment process."

So it is an adaptive algorithm?




The only ego which exists is your mind as separate from anyone else, there is no evidence that it is a bad thing. I can however provide a good idea as to why it is a good thing, without an ego you wouldn't be able to walk across the room or even perceive it. Without individual consciousness there would be no consciousness as far as anyone can prove.
If you can't actually prove that the ego is negative, except for some vague feeling people indoctrinated by Buddhists/Hindus have - then consider that the intellectual freedom one has when freed from that wild goose chase is not vague.


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18879885 - 09/23/13 10:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: tribesman]
    #18880799 - 09/23/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tribesman said:
Quote:

viktor said:
I think the idea is that you grow out of it once you're emotionally ready to be truly free.




Do you think the ego is just fed by emotion;
or reacts emotionally?




Dunno mate. :shrug:


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18880811 - 09/23/13 02:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
funny:lol:  Great carrot for suckers imo.




But what's there to lose, though? It seems to me that the ego is the sum of one's fears.

Actually, I've never sure if any two people mean the same thing when they say ego :goat:


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18880843 - 09/23/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Is there a point to this?


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: viktor]
    #18880930 - 09/23/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
funny:lol:  Great carrot for suckers imo.




But what's there to lose, though? It seems to me that the ego is the sum of one's fears.

Actually, I've never sure if any two people mean the same thing when they say ego :goat:



The ego is the personality structure imo.  You use it to navigate material reality.  If it's balanced and somewhat healthy there is little problem.  Without one you don't exist.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18881365 - 09/23/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think when I refer to ego as a negative thing, I am referring to its tendency towards control, and its desire to dominate anything separate from itself that is classified as not self. The other negative is the attachment we have to our ego, maybe by over valuing it, and forgetting/denying it is dynamic and ultimately impermanent.


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: tribesman]
    #18881442 - 09/23/13 05:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think about it that way.  I think of the ego structure as basically healthy and skillful or unhealthy and unskillful, or some mix of that but always important and always needed.

To each his own.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18882810 - 09/23/13 10:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Definition of ego (n)
e·go[ gō ]

1-self-esteem:somebody's idea of his or her own importance or worth, usually of an appropriate level

2-inflated opinion of self:an exaggerated sense of self-importance and a feeling of superiority to other people

3-part of mind containing consciousness:in Freudian psychology, one of three main divisions of the mind, containing consciousness and memory and involved with control, planning, and conforming to reality
Synonymspersonality, character, self, self-image, self-worth, self-esteem, individuality.

These are the three definitions that I get, but relating to the earlier quote that describes it as a filter; what is behind the filter?


--------------------
" No permanence is ours; we are a wave
That flows to fit whatever form it finds:
Through night or day, cathedral or the cave
We pass forever, craving form that binds."

~ Hermann Hesse, The Glass Bead Game


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: tribesman]
    #18883149 - 09/24/13 12:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

tribesman said:

I found this description a few hours ago, it would appear to describe it
As ambivalent.

" In Buddhist psychology, ego is seen as a kind of filter, a network through which energy is constantly being channelled and manipulated rather than being able to flow freely in unrestricted space. It is not a solid entity but a moment-to-moment process."

So it is an adaptive algorithm?




Quote:

tribesman said:
Definition of ego (n)
e·go[ gō ]

1-self-esteem:somebody's idea of his or her own importance or worth, usually of an appropriate level

2-inflated opinion of self:an exaggerated sense of self-importance and a feeling of superiority to other people

3-part of mind containing consciousness:in Freudian psychology, one of three main divisions of the mind, containing consciousness and memory and involved with control, planning, and conforming to reality
Synonymspersonality, character, self, self-image, self-worth, self-esteem, individuality.

These are the three definitions that I get, but relating to the earlier quote that describes it as a filter; what is behind the filter?




The concept of the ego as a filter in Buddhism and Hinduism, as I understand it refers to the ego as being the mediator between the actual "self" and the world. The mind and personality being like a vehicle, the body being a part of that vehicle as well.

Where does this belief come from and why does anyone believe it? In my opinion it is an interpretation of OBEs, most people believe it without logical conditions - they simply believe whatever the supposedly wise guru tells them and conform their experiences to fit that picture mentally.
From there it is even possible for one to have OBEs which are conditioned by the indoctrination, and that is why the belief persists after so long. People believe they have proof due to personal experiences, not bother to examine the situation critically.


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18883189 - 09/24/13 12:47 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I have come here for eight years trying to talk sense to a failing humanity.  I've suffered greatly in having to listen to what most of you have been thinking.

What say you?




I reckon this Buddha bloke nailed it. Life is suffering. Get into a better state of mind, eradicate the other influences, way to do it is Buddhism.

So maybe there's many things going on ad infinitum, and it just gets better and better if you're in the know/on the right path and can be open to learning magic and stuff


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: lolwut]
    #18883192 - 09/24/13 12:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

A warrior is never indulgant in anyting, let alone the stuff that our DNA has control of that hurts up.

Maybe if you were mashochistic...


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: lolwut]
    #18883340 - 09/24/13 02:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

what?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18883373 - 09/24/13 02:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

How about pathological altruism?  :smile:

I've just come across this article, I concede it's not
From any great authority on the matter, but just a suggestion.

http://buddhism.about.com/b/2011/10/05/true-selflessness-is-truly-selfless.htm


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: tribesman]
    #18883393 - 09/24/13 03:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Read my dozens of rebuttals to this in other threads. I'm so sick of going over basic concepts in logic. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18883512 - 09/24/13 05:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
what?




They've got it covered both ways, maybe it's S&M - haven't checked that out - but if you can teach yourself to derive pleasure from pain, you can't go wrong


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:haha:


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: lolwut]
    #18883613 - 09/24/13 06:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Still working on that one.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18893409 - 09/26/13 10:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I have come here for eight years trying to talk sense to a failing humanity.  I've suffered greatly in having to listen to what most of you have been thinking.

What say you?




You're joking, right?


--------------------
Ξ³Ξ½αΏΆΞΈΞΉ ΟƒΞ±α½Ο„ΟŒΞ½ - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18893491 - 09/26/13 10:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Hardly.:satansmoking:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18893776 - 09/26/13 12:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I have come here for eight years trying to talk sense to a failing humanity.  I've suffered greatly in having to listen to what most of you have been thinking.

What say you?




I say, that is exactly the same story as me. Mindfulness meditation helps tremendously.


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:haha:


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: lolwut]
    #18893981 - 09/26/13 01:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lolwut said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
what?




They've got it covered both ways, maybe it's S&M - haven't checked that out - but if you can teach yourself to derive pleasure from pain, you can't go wrong




Lot of truth in this. If we're here to experience existence, there's no substantial difference between pleasure and pain other than how we choose to look at it.


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: lolwut]
    #18893983 - 09/26/13 01:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I use Kratom myself. :shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18896529 - 09/26/13 11:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I use Kratom myself. :shrug:




Bar-fights and alcohol


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18909998 - 09/30/13 05:06 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I have come here for eight years trying to talk sense to a failing humanity.  I've suffered greatly in having to listen to what most of you have been thinking.

What say you?




The world revolves arounds the sun.


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Beanhead]
    #18910027 - 09/30/13 05:33 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Are you saying I am the son?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18910037 - 09/30/13 05:44 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I am the Sun :sun:


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: lolwut] * 1
    #18910050 - 09/30/13 05:51 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I am the Walrus.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18910100 - 09/30/13 06:21 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I like that place. But I prefer:



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Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18910337 - 09/30/13 08:11 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

It's just a tad annoying that most Western languages won't allow "selfless" and "I" collide together instead of contradicting itself.

Enlightened hedonism, you once described in a thread as the will to do good but along with the realization that it's all for personal gratification. How is this different?

Not to forget the perspective;
What is good for you, doesn't neccesarily mean good for family
What is good for your family, doesn't mean it's good for you relatives (eg. time/energy spent)
What is good for relatives might clash with the interest of society
What is good for society might clash with the country it's concerns (eg. building of a road)
What is good for humanity may be bad for the world.

There's too much noise to be still heard. Perhaps one day we will give up our little indifferences and act together. A common universal goal that drives humanity?

One can dream right...?

I have an idealized image of a "better world" yet that is very dangerous since to die for an idea; it is unquestionably noble. But how much nobler it would be if men died for ideas that were true! :wink:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Beanhead]
    #18910429 - 09/30/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

One can dream right...?



I agree with that part. ^

Enlightened hedonism is not the will to do good as I see it but rather the realization the most of the time what is the most beneficial to the self overall also benefits others. Of course the reason it's called enlightened is one must be self aware and awake enough to be able to really understand what is in ones ultimate best interest.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,534
Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18912898 - 09/30/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

dreaming at the end of the world
in the mountains as winter gathers
a beautiful and lonely post


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #18912953 - 09/30/13 08:03 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBeanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX
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Registered: 10/11/08
Posts: 17,257
Loc: Geospatial inversion.
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Icelander]
    #18914082 - 10/01/13 12:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks Icelander :cheers:


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Maybe I have been selfless all this time. [Re: Beanhead]
    #18914087 - 10/01/13 12:37 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

:nicesmile:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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