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OfflineJustsomedude
Stranger
Registered: 11/23/11
Posts: 29
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: mycofool]
    #18867938 - 09/20/13 02:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

ok, ill try a longer soak in a test jar and see how that does.  do you recommend 6 12 18 or 24 hours?


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Offlinedark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: Justsomedude]
    #18867947 - 09/20/13 02:13 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I do 18hr


--------------------
Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this.

OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX
free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.

no stamps atm

FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA  members ONLY

I have these seeds:
Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.


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Offlinemycofool
Stranger

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 19
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: Justsomedude]
    #18868004 - 09/20/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I do a 24 hr soak just to be safe. I mean whats 24 hours. My lack of patience has cost me in the end. Endospores are tough google endospores to see how resilient they really are.


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OfflineJustsomedude
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Registered: 11/23/11
Posts: 29
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: mycofool]
    #18868025 - 09/20/13 02:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

dark3st not sure what your getting at about making LC. 

Mycofool.  I thought endospores were from fungus.  just read a little about them and they seem pretty ridiculously resistant to almost everything I can think of that should kill bacteria.  perhaps im getting these little bastards in my seed somehow.  that would explain how they survive past pressure cooking.  probably survive a nuclear bomb actually too thats messed up.


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Offlinemycofool
Stranger

Registered: 02/29/12
Posts: 19
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: Justsomedude]
    #18868122 - 09/20/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yes fungus reproduces asexually by dropping spores. But they are not endospores. The are not as resiliant as endospores thats why we let the jars cool before injecting them.

Certain bacteria can produce a thick walled spore structure which allows them to survive adverse environmental conditions for prolonged periods of time.  The bacterial spore is more properly called an endospore because its function is to protect the bacterial DNA from destruction by conditions or substances in the environment that destroy non-endospore forming bacteria.

They are in your birdseed from the get go. So are moth larvae. Have you ever bought seed with what looks like webbing in the bag? Thats the moth larvae. Like I said, birdseed is filthy.


Edited by mycofool (09/20/13 03:01 PM)


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Offlinedark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: Justsomedude]
    #18868589 - 09/20/13 04:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Justsomedude said:
dark3st not sure what your getting at about making LC. 

Mycofool.  I thought endospores were from fungus.  just read a little about them and they seem pretty ridiculously resistant to almost everything I can think of that should kill bacteria.  perhaps im getting these little bastards in my seed somehow.  that would explain how they survive past pressure cooking.  probably survive a nuclear bomb actually too thats messed up.





Myc will grow in 2% honey water. It will grow in rough environments (my front yard garden has a few growing time to time with spent wbs. To say it won't grow because of a "wet spot" sounds bit crazy.


--------------------
Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this.

OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX
free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.

no stamps atm

FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA  members ONLY

I have these seeds:
Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.


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OfflineMyTiny_Shroom
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Registered: 08/30/13
Posts: 104
Last seen: 5 years, 18 days
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: dark3st]
    #18868859 - 09/20/13 05:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I use the quart size canning jars and the half pint jars to see which one colonize faster and with less contamination.  The pint size jars are the best that they colonized faster at 6 days max. That also depends on how much myc from the previous jars I put in when I do the G2G method.  I also use a aq. thermometer in a quart jar with water to stabilize the temp. inside a cardboard box.
If not enough soaking and PC (90 mins) on the WBS then there will be
contamination later on.  Also, the procedure on keeping everything
sterilized and sanitized is very important during your G2G transfer.
I have the same problem like you do too.  But I don't do a big batch hoping everything is alright at the end.  I do smaller 6 pounds batches to test things out first.  I'm trying to find a method that works for me and expand from that into larger batches.  If switching to wheat or rye grains will help then try that later on.  I'm going to use agar wedges and WBS without the G2G method to see, next.  Or agar wedges and wheat or rye to see.  Of course, everything in smaller batches to test first.  Then will expand later on.  Gotta get my methods down first!
I don't like peanuts because they soaked up too much water and might allow the bacteria to grow faster if contaminated.  Can you buy the WBS without the peanuts?  Mine only have millets, sorgum, sunflowers, wheat and cracked corn.

Here is a half pint jar all full in 6 days.


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Offlinedark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: MyTiny_Shroom]
    #18869091 - 09/20/13 07:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I call BS on 6 days.


--------------------
Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this.

OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX
free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.

no stamps atm

FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA  members ONLY

I have these seeds:
Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.


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InvisibleFooMan
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Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
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Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: mycofool]
    #18869426 - 09/20/13 08:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

mycofool said:
If you are having contam problems soak your seed for 24 hours.
Bacteria might be surviving the pressure cooker. By soaking you are not only adding moisture but you are germinating any mold/bacteria so the cooker can do the job right.




:thumbdown: Soak to hydrate your grains, not to 'germinate endospores'. We use a PC because it achieves temperatures high enough to kill endospores. If soaking germinated them so well then a simple boil in a normal pot would suffice to sterilize the grains. Increasing your sterilization time will be much more effective for killing endospores. I steep my wbs for less than an hour. No long and unnecessary soak time is needed.


--------------------

Quick WBS Prep


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OfflineJustsomedude
Stranger
Registered: 11/23/11
Posts: 29
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: MyTiny_Shroom]
    #18869478 - 09/20/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

MyTiny_Shroom the only reason I went big these times was because I was confident that I had solved the original problem (mold,which I had) this is just another unexpected problem that I had run into small scale before during my runs but this time im seeing it in a big way.  leads me to question my methods so I can find and eliminate what im doing wrong


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OfflineJustsomedude
Stranger
Registered: 11/23/11
Posts: 29
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: Justsomedude]
    #18869505 - 09/20/13 08:37 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

FooManM from what im reading seems like the idea of soaking the endospores is to get them to open up and let their guard down before super heating them.  apparently it makes them vulnerable to the high temps we PC at.  from what I read endospores are high heat resistant among other things. please do correct me if im wrong.  after all I can see you have a large amount of experience and I only have about a years worth of off and on success.


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InvisibleFooMan
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Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: Justsomedude]
    #18869606 - 09/20/13 08:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I'm sure you've read that because a lot of people regurgitate this information without experimenting on their own. I've posted my opinion on soaking to germinate endospores in the past. Even RR agrees. If it makes you feel better soak that shit for a week, but if you want to kill endospores increase your PC times.

You can decide what to believe or not. I'm just posting my opinion based on A LOT of experience with WBS. I sterilize over 100lbs a week and have been for several years now.


--------------------

Quick WBS Prep


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OfflineJustsomedude
Stranger
Registered: 11/23/11
Posts: 29
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: FooMan]
    #18870132 - 09/20/13 11:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

So far cooking times are 90 min at 15 psi.  How long do you recommend cooking for?


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OfflineMyTiny_Shroom
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Registered: 08/30/13
Posts: 104
Last seen: 5 years, 18 days
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: Justsomedude]
    #18870683 - 09/21/13 02:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

On my next batch I will PC for 1 hour 45 minutes.  Maybe to bring it up to 2 hours for a larger batch.  Somewhere I read on hpoo PC that if you are processing a larger batch then the PC time has to increase 30 min more.  So how many pounds of WBS are you processing each time?  And sorry for not knowing your increased amount thus far.  For a year now should let you find a better method to process them. I am still looking into this also.  How about building a low pressure 3 metal barrels PC.  I saw one on youtube.  Pretty neat!


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Offlinedark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: MyTiny_Shroom]
    #18870927 - 09/21/13 06:10 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I do a 90min steam sterile

This link is what I started using when I started and it has never fails me. 1 contamination problem so far.minus the PC


http://www.shroomery.org/9030/Doc34-s-Wild-Bird-Seed-Tek


--------------------
Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this.

OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX
free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.

no stamps atm

FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA  members ONLY

I have these seeds:
Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.


Edited by dark3st (09/21/13 06:12 AM)


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OfflineJustsomedude
Stranger
Registered: 11/23/11
Posts: 29
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: dark3st]
    #18871305 - 09/21/13 09:11 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

these are approximate values.

doing about 8 quarts per cook in one pressure cooker and another 6 in the other pressure cooker.

usually have another 10 quarts worth in jars on standby to cook once the first batch is done.

when I go prep the seed I usually fill my 5 gal bucket 2/3 full.

I do everything in the bucket.  I don't simmer on the stove, I boil a huge pot of water and pour that into the bucket once its boiling or close to then seal the lid on the bucket and let it sit in the near boiling water for an hour.


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Offlinecrimsonking91
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Registered: 02/19/13
Posts: 188
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: Justsomedude]
    #18871399 - 09/21/13 09:54 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That's interesting just like coir! Super easy.


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Offlinedark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: Justsomedude]
    #18871411 - 09/21/13 09:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Justsomedude said:
these are approximate values.

doing about 8 quarts per cook in one pressure cooker and another 6 in the other pressure cooker.

usually have another 10 quarts worth in jars on standby to cook once the first batch is done.

when I go prep the seed I usually fill my 5 gal bucket 2/3 full.

I do everything in the bucket.  I don't simmer on the stove, I boil a huge pot of water and pour that into the bucket once its boiling or close to then seal the lid on the bucket and let it sit in the near boiling water for an hour.




Hummm imma try that.


--------------------
Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this.

OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX
free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.

no stamps atm

FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA  members ONLY

I have these seeds:
Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJustsomedude
Stranger
Registered: 11/23/11
Posts: 29
Last seen: 9 years, 10 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: dark3st]
    #18871431 - 09/21/13 10:10 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

ya super easy but apparently wrong somehow... hence this thread...


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Offlinedark3st
Stranger

Registered: 08/02/13
Posts: 3,332
Last seen: 8 years, 4 months
Re: bird seed gets wet during colonization [Re: Justsomedude]
    #18871442 - 09/21/13 10:15 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The only issue I see is nothing... maybitd the bird seed. I got mine from ACE what does yours contain?


--------------------
Back.. I'm going to do it...I'm getting sober from opiates ... I got weed, gabapentin, propranolol, and GHB, I have 100mg tramadol left. I can do this. I can do this.

OFINTQWGVGAKGCYKBUBX
free dark P. Tampanensis prints to ODD members.

no stamps atm

FREE SEEDS for ODD WCA  members ONLY

I have these seeds:
Orange, red, and yellow sweet peppers, Purple poppies, White Habanero, Yellow Thai, Bolivian rainbow peppers, milk thistle, red chilly pepper, HBWR.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
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Shop: PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder   MagicBag.co All-In-One Bags That Don't Suck   Mushroom-Hut Substrate Bags   Myyco.com Isolated Cubensis Liquid Culture For Sale   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract   North Spore Injection Grain Bag


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