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Offlineiloveweed
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BHO question
    #18869719 - 09/20/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Does it truly make a difference which type of butane you use for BHO extractions?

More specifically does how "refined" it supposedly is make a difference. I'm currently using Ronson brand


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InvisibleBIGS
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Re: BHO question [Re: iloveweed] * 2
    #18869794 - 09/20/13 09:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Stay FAR away from ronson, please dont be making BHO


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Offlinephaded
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Re: BHO question [Re: BIGS]
    #18869814 - 09/20/13 09:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

No shit it matters. You want to be using as pure of butane as you can find. Not just any old 'tane will do. If you did research on making BHO there should have been some point where you should have figured out that there are some brands of butane that are safe. It is clear you didn't get to this point.

Please go do more research before you go blasting anymore.


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InvisibleSattvaBodhi
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Re: BHO question [Re: BIGS]
    #18869822 - 09/20/13 09:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BIGS said:
Stay FAR away from ronson, please dont be making BHO




Agreed.


It needs to be as pure as possible.


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Invisiblegzuf
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Re: BHO question [Re: SattvaBodhi]
    #18869845 - 09/20/13 09:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah fuck that shit I remember when I did it I used Vector(?) quad refined. it takes a lot of green might as well do it right.


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Offlineiloveweed
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Re: BHO question [Re: gzuf]
    #18869872 - 09/20/13 10:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Seems to have worked perfectly fine. The oil is great and I'm stoned as shit right now.

Could anyone be more specific about exactly what the difference is because I see no reason why I'm wrong here.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: BHO question [Re: iloveweed]
    #18869953 - 09/20/13 10:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Butane that is sold as fuel in the us contains a compound that gives it that terrible smell. That would be a good reason why you wouldn't want to use it,


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Offlineiloveweed
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods] * 1
    #18870967 - 09/21/13 06:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well it doesn't smell. I also read on different forums of people claiming that even the ones that do smell aren't a problem, but mine doesn't smell.

I think that its funny that so many people have told me that I'm wrong and yet not one person has real evidence to back up they're claim.


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: BHO question [Re: iloveweed]
    #18871001 - 09/21/13 06:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Maybe you think the oil you made is great, but it tastes like ass to people with more experience.

Not to mention the industrial by-products that will be present in your product, and not in a product that uses refined butane.

I bet your oil tastes like sulfurs.


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Offlinekoods
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Re: BHO question [Re: Heffy]
    #18871015 - 09/21/13 07:04 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

One of the properties of the mercaptan additives is that despite smelling horrible, you temporarily lose the ability to smell them after a short period of continuous exposure.

In other words, they stink so bad you can't smell them.


Edited by koods (09/21/13 07:05 AM)


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OfflinePirax
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
    #18871025 - 09/21/13 07:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Im pretty sure Vector quad refined is like $3 per can, why would you not go the safe route regardless? Lighter butane is different than butane that marketed for blasting bho


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Offlineiloveweed
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Re: BHO question [Re: Heffy]
    #18871061 - 09/21/13 07:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Heffy said:
Maybe you think the oil you made is great, but it tastes like ass to people with more experience.

Not to mention the industrial by-products that will be present in your product, and not in a product that uses refined butane.

I bet your oil tastes like sulfurs.




I bet your wrong. I use a $300 dollar Liquidizer machine that was featured in the top products list of high times. My butane is the only thing in question not my extraction methods.

What bi products exactly are you referring to and why would they not be purged out of my final product? With the right extraction methods I still see no problem here.

Please have a little more supporting evidence before posting. You seem very arrogant.


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Offlineiloveweed
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Re: BHO question [Re: Pirax]
    #18871070 - 09/21/13 07:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Pirax said:
Im pretty sure Vector quad refined is like $3 per can, why would you not go the safe route regardless? Lighter butane is different than butane that marketed for blasting bho




What exactly is different about it? I paid 6 bucks a can. Ronson brand was all I could find without ordering some online. What does "quad refined" truly mean anyways?


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OfflineTwinEclipse
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Re: BHO question [Re: iloveweed]
    #18871154 - 09/21/13 08:07 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yea there is this aromatic they put in fuels to help people tell there is a leak. It's SUPER STRONG!

Make sure your butane doesn't have that(additive free)


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OfflinePirax
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Re: BHO question [Re: TwinEclipse]
    #18871160 - 09/21/13 08:11 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Go to a smoke shop/glass shop, they usually carry butane. I've even heard of dispensaries carrying butane.
But for god sakes DONT use butane unless its meant for BHO, which usually says triple or quad refined. I have seen the scientific studies that shows the toxicity of the additives in canned butane, but youre high af if you think im gonna go through google and pull them up lol. They're posted up in the BHO sections of rollitup forum I believe, or it might have been grasscity forum
People wouldnt tell you not to if there wasn't a good reason for it. Get the good butane man, your lungs and health are worth it, as well as anyone you share your bho with.


Edited by Pirax (09/21/13 08:12 AM)


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InvisibleLegend
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Re: BHO question [Re: Pirax]
    #18871178 - 09/21/13 08:21 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

i've always used vector, just because it's what i've been recommended and i've never had any
complaints using it.but i have had BHO made with shitty butane, and it's noticeable. so just dont
accept less than the purest butane. ALSO if you're making BHO don't cheap out and use pvc pipes.


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OfflineTwinEclipse
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Re: BHO question [Re: Legend]
    #18871254 - 09/21/13 08:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I like these. 5$ at the smoke shop.

It's 5x refined butane.

It works GREAT with A LOT of shake :awehigh: get 2-3 cans just in case...extracting takes up a lot lol


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Invisiblec0exist
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Re: BHO question [Re: TwinEclipse]
    #18871267 - 09/21/13 09:00 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

to see the purity of your butane you can always spray a bit out into your pyrex without weed or anything and see if it leaves residue.  if it does thats probably some nasty shit to be smoking.

5x all day. go with very refined stuff. even if the cost might be more, you arent getting a lung infection from god knows what.. ya know?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: BHO question [Re: c0exist]
    #18871994 - 09/21/13 12:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Honestly, why are people using butane as a solvent when there are perfectly good alkanes that are liquids at room temperature? I mean, if it is a volatility thing, then you're just being lazy and impatient. Christ, three cans to do an extraction? Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe the reason you need so much is because 90% of it evaporates before it can dissolve anything?

This reeks of being a stupid fad that has no actual scientific basis.


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Edited by koods (09/21/13 12:45 PM)


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
    #18872054 - 09/21/13 12:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't know why you would say it has no scientific basis, obviously it really does work.


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InvisibleBurke Dennings
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
    #18872190 - 09/21/13 01:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

You use butane (or hexane or pentane) because it's a non-polar solvent that doesn't pull out chlorophyll and lipids from plant matter.  Or at least not nearly as much as isopropanol.

Also, if you do it right, I very highly doubt that "90%" of it evaporates before extraction.  Only a small amount will, and then you purge the rest. 

I don't know what's so hard to understand about this.  :confused: 


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Offlinekoods
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Re: BHO question [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #18872223 - 09/21/13 01:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

No, I'm not suggesting it doesn't work. I am suggesting it would probably work equally well, or better, with a less ridiculous solvent. I mean, you are doing a liquid solvent extraction with a solvent that isn't a liquid at room temperature and 1 atm. Maybe I misunderstood the procedure. Is this being done in a pressurized container or at very low temperatures? Well, obviously at low temperatures since your liquid is going to max out at about 3°, but is that the point to do a very cold extraction? If so, you could always put some naphtha in the freezer.


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Offlineganjfather
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Re: BHO question [Re: iloveweed]
    #18872239 - 09/21/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It matters, but to a degree.

I have and always will use 5x. I've paid the extra price many a times for the 7x and it makes NO DIFFERENCE. But then there are people that swear by 7x. The only difference is that you can use SLIGHTLY less 7x than 5x. It doesn't make a better product. Don't go any lower than 5x, though.


Don't use ronson, go out and buy some clean butane, most people like to use vector and they sell good butane.


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Offlineiloveweed
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Re: BHO question [Re: psi]
    #18872677 - 09/21/13 03:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
I don't know why you would say it has no scientific basis, obviously it really does work.




Yes it does. A couple good dabs and I'm happily stoned. Since I sold my volcano I've been waking up every other morning with a soar throat from smoking 10 bongs in a day. So what's worse, three grams of plant material in and out your lungs everyday or a few dabs?

Doesn't a cigarette lighter contain butane? Don't you inhale a minuscule amount of it when using them? How would that be any different?


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OfflineHerbologist
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Re: BHO question [Re: iloveweed]
    #18872966 - 09/21/13 04:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Instead of being a twat and challenging people why dont you do the research yourself?

It will clearly explain to you why you SHOULD be using butane with no impurities


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Offlineganjfather
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Re: BHO question [Re: iloveweed]
    #18874107 - 09/21/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

iloveweed said:
Doesn't a cigarette lighter contain butane?




Yes.

Quote:

Don't you inhale a minuscule amount of it when using them? How would that be any different?




No, when it hits a flame it is no longer butane.

The byproducts of butane combustion are h20 & co2.


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Offlineiloveweed
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Re: BHO question [Re: Herbologist]
    #18874161 - 09/21/13 10:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Herbologist said:
Instead of being a twat and challenging people why dont you do the research yourself?

It will clearly explain to you why you SHOULD be using butane with no impurities




Every brand of butane contains impurities you arrogant fucking idiot I've done plenty of research. Get you're facts straight before you assume things. Where's your research then?


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Offlineiloveweed
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Re: BHO question [Re: ganjfather]
    #18874169 - 09/21/13 10:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Thank you ganjfather for a more insightful response.


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Invisibletrippinballs420
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Re: BHO question [Re: iloveweed]
    #18874549 - 09/22/13 02:08 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Butane & Health:

It has been talked about a lot lately, some brand of butane add a smell to their butane. This smell is usually added to the butane so that humans can detect leaks, you will find it in large amounts in cheap butane, or camping butane. It can also potentially be in ?Clean? butane such as Colibri.

These chemicals are usually Mercaptans or Sulfur Dioxide (Rotten Egg Smell), using cheap butane with high levels of these is harmful. Do not use cheap butane or camping butane. It can also be harmful to use ?Clean? butane, so do so at your own risk.

It is not known what the effects of residues in butane honey oil are; it?s not even known for sure what if any residues are left over in butane honey oil after the butane is purged.

Only a Gas Chromatography/Mass Spectrometer can give us the info on what?s exactly is in our BHO. The search is on to find somewhere to get a sample tested. Until then, be aware of the potential health risks and judge for yourself if it?s worth it.

Butane Brands

Not all butane is created equally; there are 2 different types of butane that make up the most common brands of butane. Isobutane and N-Butane.

Most cheap brands use Isobutane (2-METHYL PROPANE) and is more toxic and hazardous than N-Butane. For making Honey oil N-Butane is what we want, it extracts better and leaves very little to no residues in the oil.

Other brands use a mix of the different types, and some, like Colibri, use propane as well as Iso and n-butane

Boiling Points
ISOBUTANE: -11.7 C
N-BUTANE: -0.5 C

No source of pure N-Butane has been found available in stores, only through Gas Supply Companies.

The best brand of butane I have used is Colibri Butane. I highly recommend Colibri, and you should be able to find it at most Fine Cigar and Tobacco Shoppe?s. Below is a list of other brands that are good for making Honey oil with. If you cannot find Colibri try to find one of the butane brands listed. And by all means avoid Ronson, Bernz-o-matic or other butane not listed below, they add smell to their butane and this smell is left behind making the oil taste very bad.

Other Brands that are good to use:

COLIBRI, NEWPORT, CORA, CTC, COLTON, DUNHILL, DAVIDOFF, FACKELMAN, WIN, NIBO, SAROME, CALOR GAS MATCH, UNILIGHT, K2, SUPERGAS, VENTTI, VECTOR.

This is by no way a complete list, and there is no promise this info will always be correct, manufactures can change recipes at anytime. This list is the brands that carry the ?Near Zero? impurity label, which means they are not supposed to have more than 15ppm of impurities, what they are is not know.

When you purchase the butane make sure you find the largest size of can you can. I use the 300ml/167g (6oz) cans of Colibri. Most places only carry the little 2oz cans, these are not enough. You will need at least 8oz of butane for every 1oz of plant material.



do a little searching. i typed "most pure butane" into this crazy new fangled thing called "google"...this was in the second link that popped up :eek: who knew such a thing existed


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Edited by trippinballs420 (09/22/13 02:20 AM)


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InvisibleBIGS
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Re: BHO question [Re: trippinballs420]
    #18875151 - 09/22/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Look dude, Your not getting N tane nor from the sound of it do you have a closed looped extraction system. (n tane isnt even that great it kills terps in your oils and give less flavor but does provide a more potent high)

Unless your running GOOD tane and a closed loop system you should be making BHO at all.

Butane has by products in it including mineral oils which are all bad. Newport, Vector, Colibri are all very good over the counter butanes.
Roson has way to many by products, mineral oils, parfin and ect. You should be purging using a lab grade oven at low heat.

If you dont have the money or the resources to get Lab grade equipment all your going to be doing is making sub par oils with so much residual butane and by products you will be getting a "butane high", just because you think your oil is good doesnt mean shit.

Do what you want but when you get a collapsed lung from under purged oils, youll think twice about making BHO ever again.
Collapsed lungs are no joke and have happened to people i know from smoking un purged oils.

If your going to make BHO use at least good material and spend the money to invest in some sort of method of purging and some form of glass or SS tube. Never use plastics!  All info on how to make proper oils is all on tokecityDOTcom


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Offlinekoods
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Re: BHO question [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #18875192 - 09/22/13 09:36 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Burke Dennings said:
You use butane (or hexane or pentane) because it's a non-polar solvent that doesn't pull out chlorophyll and lipids from plant matter.  Or at least not nearly as much as isopropanol.

Also, if you do it right, I very highly doubt that "90%" of it evaporates before extraction.  Only a small amount will, and then you purge the rest. 

I don't know what's so hard to understand about this.  :confused: 




Yes. My point is this obsession with butane, when hexane would work perfectly well and it doesn't boil away at room temperature. People are so worried about fucking Impurities and they are using 3 cans of butane, concentrating the all the impurities in practically a liter of butane. You could use shit quality cyclohexane from lighter fluid and because the volume of solvent would be so much lower, you would end up with the same amont of impurity. And it wouldn't cost you $25 worth of solvent.

Is this done in a closed system? That would be different, but you wouldn't have to worry about a closed system if you just used an APPROPRIATE SOLVENT!

And this bullshit about the number of times it was refined is just a fucking marketing technique to get you to pay more money for their product. If they really had a consistently higher quality product, they would put an assay on the side of their bottle.

Quote:

(n tane isnt even that great it kills terps in your oils and give less flavor but does provide a more potent high



Woo. Pseudoscientifc BS. I guess this is why this is in the pub, and not the chem forum.


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Edited by koods (09/22/13 09:43 AM)


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: BHO question [Re: iloveweed]
    #18875223 - 09/22/13 09:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

iloveweed said:
Quote:

Heffy said:
Maybe you think the oil you made is great, but it tastes like ass to people with more experience.

Not to mention the industrial by-products that will be present in your product, and not in a product that uses refined butane.

I bet your oil tastes like sulfurs.




I bet your wrong. I use a $300 dollar Liquidizer machine that was featured in the top products list of high times. My butane is the only thing in question not my extraction methods.

What bi products exactly are you referring to and why would they not be purged out of my final product? With the right extraction methods I still see no problem here.

Please have a little more supporting evidence before posting. You seem very arrogant.




I never questioned your extraction method. I questioned the quality of your butane.

Poor quality butane will contain residues of all kinds of stuff including methanes, ethanes, mercaptans, and sulfurs.

You haven't described your extraction or purging procedures, so you tell me. Why WOULD they be purged out of your final product? Since you are so comfortable with using a lower quality butane with more impurities, why don't you describe the steps you are taking to remove these compounds during your extraction and purging?

I'm skeptical that you've taken any though, since you don't seem to be aware of what it even is that you are trying to remove.


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OfflineHeffy
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
    #18875234 - 09/22/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Burke Dennings said:
You use butane (or hexane or pentane) because it's a non-polar solvent that doesn't pull out chlorophyll and lipids from plant matter.  Or at least not nearly as much as isopropanol.

Also, if you do it right, I very highly doubt that "90%" of it evaporates before extraction.  Only a small amount will, and then you purge the rest. 

I don't know what's so hard to understand about this.  :confused: 




Yes. My point is this obsession with butane, when hexane would work perfectly well and it doesn't boil away at room temperature. People are so worried about fucking Impurities and they are using 3 cans of butane, concentrating the all the impurities in practically a liter of butane. You could use shit quality cyclohexane from lighter fluid and because the volume of solvent would be so much lower, you would end up with the same amont of impurity. And it wouldn't cost you $25 worth of solvent.

Is this done in a closed system? That would be different, but you wouldn't have to worry about a closed system if you just used an APPROPRIATE SOLVENT!

And this bullshit about the number of times it was refined is just a fucking marketing technique to get you to pay more money for their product. If they really had a consistently higher quality product, they would put an assay on the side of their bottle.

Quote:

(n tane isnt even that great it kills terps in your oils and give less flavor but does provide a more potent high



Woo. Pseudoscientifc BS. I guess this is why this is in the pub, and not the chem forum.




You've gotten me interested in hexane extraction. Do you have any teks or reports of people doing this? Do you think it would be safer than using pressurized butane in a glass/metal/plastic chamber?


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OfflineTwinEclipse
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
    #18875238 - 09/22/13 09:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Turpentines are used to efficiently detect gas leaks. Concentrated variants and be smelled 100s of miles away.

They also concentrate the smell of pine trees. Forests always smell piney lol

I highly doubt they are found in refined extracts of butane however.

If you are really concerned of additives, just get technical grade butane. Stuff is $$$$$ though lol


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Offlinekoods
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Re: BHO question [Re: TwinEclipse]
    #18875382 - 09/22/13 10:29 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TwinEclipse said:
Turpentines are used to efficiently detect gas leaks. Concentrated variants and be smelled 100s of miles away.

They also concentrate the smell of pine trees. Forests always smell piney lol

I highly doubt they are found in refined extracts of butane however.

If you are really concerned of additives, just get technical grade butane. Stuff is $$$$$ though lol




What? Turpentine is a terpene, but isn't germane to this topic. The stuff they put in butane and propane are mercaptans, and they can be smelled in very low concentrations


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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
    #18875410 - 09/22/13 10:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Yes. My point is this obsession with butane, when hexane would work perfectly well and it doesn't boil away at room temperature. People are so worried about fucking Impurities and they are using 3 cans of butane, concentrating the all the impurities in practically a liter of butane. You could use shit quality cyclohexane from lighter fluid and because the volume of solvent would be so much lower, you would end up with the same amont of impurity. And it wouldn't cost you $25 worth of solvent.

Is this done in a closed system? That would be different, but you wouldn't have to worry about a closed system if you just used an APPROPRIATE SOLVENT!

And this bullshit about the number of times it was refined is just a fucking marketing technique to get you to pay more money for their product. If they really had a consistently higher quality product, they would put an assay on the side of their bottle.




:shrug: Gonna go out on a limb here and say butane is just more readily available and well known (less expensive?). I googled it quick, there are plenty of articles and postings about using other solvents. I never heard of anything besides butane myself and I did a good amount of research on BHO before I tried it. Dunno man. Most of us average schlubs don't know about all these other solvents but when it comes to butane..

Quote:

Yes. My point is this obsession with butane, when hexane would work perfectly well and it doesn't boil away at room temperature. People are so worried about fucking Impurities and they are using 3 cans of butane, concentrating the all the impurities in practically a liter of butane




Don't you want it to boil at room temperature? People use #x filtered butane because they want less impurities.... So they would be concentrating less impurities in those three cans with a higher quality butane, right?


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Offlinekoods
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Re: BHO question [Re: gzuf]
    #18875461 - 09/22/13 10:56 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

BTW, I happened to get a GC/MS profile of Ronsonol lighter fluid when I used it as a solvent for another compound I had tested. It was almost entirely 6 to 9 carbon straight, branched and cyclic alkanes, with the remainder being some 7-8 carbon alkenes. There was nothing "toxic" in it.


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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
    #18875476 - 09/22/13 11:02 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

They put a smell in to it though don't they? That was one thing I think I remember that turned people off of it.


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Re: BHO question [Re: gzuf]
    #18875499 - 09/22/13 11:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm talking about the liquid product in the yellow bottle that is mostly cyclohexane. Not the butane. The butane has an added mercaptan because it is a liquified gas.


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
    #18875548 - 09/22/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
No, I'm not suggesting it doesn't work. I am suggesting it would probably work equally well, or better, with a less ridiculous solvent. I mean, you are doing a liquid solvent extraction with a solvent that isn't a liquid at room temperature and 1 atm. Maybe I misunderstood the procedure. Is this being done in a pressurized container or at very low temperatures? Well, obviously at low temperatures since your liquid is going to max out at about 3�, but is that the point to do a very cold extraction? If so, you could always put some naphtha in the freezer.



Butane in the bottle is a liquid with a little compressed gas at the top, when you turn the bottle upside down for this process, the liquid is pushed out by the compressed air also the decompression of the gas, as well as the evaporation of some of the liquid cools it down immensely causing it to remain liquid for a relatively long time.

Quote:

koods said:
I'm talking about the liquid product in the yellow bottle that is mostly cyclohexane. Not the butane. The butane has an added mercaptan because it is a liquified gas.



Certain brands don't that why everyones telling op to use a different brand.


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OfflineTwinEclipse
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Re: BHO question [Re: koods]
    #18875980 - 09/22/13 01:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
I'm talking about the liquid product in the yellow bottle that is mostly cyclohexane. Not the butane. The butane has an added mercaptan because it is a liquified gas.




You smart mofo:thumbup: thanks for clarifying. I feel a bit more knowledgeable in the subject.


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