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OfflineBeppe
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I discovered new contam??
    #18865225 - 09/19/13 09:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So I followed the PF tek perfect. Used a sanitized room with no air flow for over 5 hours. Then innoc'd and covered with micro tape (even though I had a dry Verm layer).

Within 24 hours my jars grew little gray white globs that were not cobweb at all. And looked nothing like bocculism. Within 5 days the jars were 25% colonized by these white cum looking blobs. Not creamy, not gooey. A consistency between jizz and over cooked rice spherical objects.

There was no foul odor and even a light mycelium smell. But those jars stalled and I tossed em. Using new jars I did 4 more and 1 already looks to be going this route.

What's going on I have researched this for months man. It's not any of the known contams, and I have had 0 mycelium appearance in 2 weeks of failed jars. I tried a different syringe, and doubled sanitation efforts. Now what?


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OfflineSgtGanja
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18865234 - 09/19/13 09:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

A picture is worth a thousand words :tongue:


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: SgtGanja]
    #18865252 - 09/19/13 09:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

you do know there are a couple different ways mycelium grows right? are you sure what you where seeing was indeed a contam?


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Offlinecgsjames
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: SgtGanja]
    #18865361 - 09/19/13 09:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SgtGanja said:
A picture is worth a thousand words :tongue:



Picture please?...


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What you eat don't make me shit and who you fuck don't make me come.


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: cgsjames]
    #18865543 - 09/19/13 10:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I have pics but no way to upload them off iPhone. Anyone I can email and they'll post them?
The lighting/camera enhance browns and yellows so the subs not as pale looking as it should be compared to the gnarly photos. But it captures the grey well.

Think if my substrate hade overcooked cauliflower in it. Very over cooked white circular membranes akin to the opaque cauliflowerettes that disconnect and overcook in the pan.

I took 1 jar and opened it outside. It's made colonized 25% of the sub so it's a cake now but very lacking in white hot spots typical in everyone's growth pics. This gray/white stuff is all Over and around the sub, not just localized to injection locations.

At first I thought I overfilled the Verm barrier and the spores were leaking down it on the sides and that could justify such non localized growth, but this stuffs grayish white and just appeared way too sudden in such spreaded patches in-between airier parts in the substrate.


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18865599 - 09/19/13 10:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Can some one please help me upload these pics since I'm on iPhone and can't upload


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18865620 - 09/19/13 11:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

:shrug: you're new so I'm not sure if its a good idea asking that.


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Offlinemyplague240


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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18865633 - 09/19/13 11:10 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Beppe, how are you sterilizing these jars? Also, you didn't tell us if you are using a S.A.B (Still air box) or a Gb (Glove box).


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18865644 - 09/19/13 11:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah I understand the implications but I'm pretty sure if there's a cauliflower contam that doesn't match any other white/grey contams this photo should be added to the common contam FAQ pics even if no one knows wtf it is or how I got it in 5 jars.

I'm telling you it's not any of the grey/white contams. This stuff looks like the white tissue that grows on wounds in your mouth. Not quite a cream, not quite a water logged rice grain.

No glove box yet! I just closed off air in a bathroom and had all fans off for hours, then slowly shifted into the room- slowly shut the door- and then waited a bit for air to slow down from the door closing. Then I knocked them jars up with Accidently too much MS syringe. My novice hands dosed out 1-1.5cc a jar


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18865656 - 09/19/13 11:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Oh I peroxide tested the one I opened to check for cobweb. Nada. It just got wet. Cut that cake up into pieces to investigate the interior and left them on the grass and nature ate it in 1 day


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18865663 - 09/19/13 11:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

eh, what the hell I'll pm you my email:thumbup: if no one else has yet

but....if the cops show up at my door I'll kill everyone with my fist and teeth.:raisemyglass:


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Offlinemyplague240


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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18865668 - 09/19/13 11:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well before you proceed any further in this hobby with time and money I'd recommend investing in a SAB/GB and a pressure cooker. Also, BRF cakes are so prone to contamination issues that if you ever step up to grain you're going to wonder why you even messed with em'.


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18865674 - 09/19/13 11:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

*your going to jail now ad lib* thanks man. Keep in mind these pics are drier then they look.


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18865693 - 09/19/13 11:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I wish I could just do the PF tek with cior sub and nothing else. Would be so easy. Idk but the basic half pint pf resonates with me as the ultimate user experience for home lab cultivation of mushrooms. Speaking in quantum psychological terms, it gets me hard!

I want to master pf so I can move up to Spongis Pf Block tek. It just seems so easy when your procedures tight.


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Offlinemyplague240


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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18865732 - 09/19/13 11:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well, Beppe, I'll tell you this.. when you invest in a pressure cooker and move up to quart jars with grains.. while using proper sterile techniques you will see little to no contam problems.


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: myplague240]
    #18865763 - 09/19/13 11:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Look while their are fine techniques out there that one day I'll try out- I need to make these cakes work.
Now I got plenty of Verm and BRF. and 2 and 1/2 syringes left. Which will for sure be made into liquid cultures also to keep the movement moving. This is too important to me. I need to make these cakes happen.


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18865865 - 09/20/13 12:16 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)





complements of beppe


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18865872 - 09/20/13 12:18 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks man. Figures it would be you to help. I been laughing at that signature for days. Godamnit Carl Jung synchronistic occurrences.

But yeah the jars aren't wet or discolored in anyway beyond what the camera added


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Offlinekinkaku
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18865890 - 09/20/13 12:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Beppe said:
Thanks man. Figures it would be you to help. I been laughing at that signature for days. Godamnit Carl Jung synchronistic occurrences.

But yeah the jars aren't wet or discolored in anyway beyond what the camera added




haha no problem:thumbup:

where they like that out of the pc? a long time ago I did rye flour cakes and they turned out like bricks and looked like that kinda.


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18865908 - 09/20/13 12:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Nah man. The growth essentially began as singular blobs within 48 hours of knock up

My hypothesis are:
A) bizarre mycelium
B) unknown fungus infecting my air of the entire downstairs
C) improper steam levels (too much escaping from the lid) and partial heat encouraging a fast unknown agent

Idk man. I'm pretty smart for a bohemian and I absolutely can rock out boomers. I oversaw a bag grow in Denmark once and only my bag colonized white (everyone else got tryc). So I def got the potential and ability to learn from Internet sources


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18865929 - 09/20/13 12:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Anyways those cakes are at 12 days and no white growth spots at all near the injection ports.

I'm gonna do 2 control groups tomorrow. 1 jar steam sterilized and 1 jar unsterilized, and put them in the same room etc. No spores.

I'm curious. Either way I vow to isolate this problem. It's too systematic to occur in all 4 jars


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Invisiblecynical bastad
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18865960 - 09/20/13 12:52 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What about the possibility that your syringe is bad? Try a different one since you have it?  I don't have answers, i have questions. Verm being wet and not being dry, due to taped up holes may be fighting against you as well?


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: cynical bastad]
    #18866513 - 09/20/13 08:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I see no reason why the micropore tape would be a bad idea on only my jars.
2 of the 5 jars have no tape on their holes and only have the Verm layer. The Verm isn't the issue as these


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: kinkaku]
    #18866702 - 09/20/13 08:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

kinkaku said:




complements of beppe




That looks like wet BRF from your inoculant.

If you see slimy wet growth though, that is bacteria. Far from "new."

Quote:

Beppe said:
Anyways those cakes are at 12 days and no white growth spots at all near the injection ports.

I'm gonna do 2 control groups tomorrow. 1 jar steam sterilized and 1 jar unsterilized, and put them in the same room etc. No spores.




What kind of test is that? Your unsterilized jar will contam, period. Just steam them both and inoculate one.

The problem sounds like a bad syringe.


--------------------

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You should take a look. :hehehe:


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18866744 - 09/20/13 09:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The point of the experiment would be to see the unsterilized test jar contam with 0% chance of it being spore related and comparing the contam growth and distribution with my jars.

It makes plenty of sense if you think about it. If I put a jar with none of the same conditions and it also aquires this growth that is VERY relevant data to isolating the necessary variable.

I knocked up 4 new jars 2 days ago as I said earlier. 2 with the same syringe, and 2 with a new strain and syringe.

Right now I will tell you atleast 1 of the 4 jars has the early signs of this same growth. Wich does seem to be characteristic of the sub looking a little to wet. But it wasn't like that prior to 24 hours post innoc.

The 5 original jars have become colder and like 65% colonized by this opaque growth.


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18866748 - 09/20/13 09:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Also the growth is not a slime. It's between cauliflower and over cooked rice. I even mashed some in mygloves one day and it was not slime at all.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18866756 - 09/20/13 09:05 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I've been doing this for years. Trust me, it's probably a bad syringe.

What are you trying to "isolate" the "variable" for?

If your inoculant is bad, nothing will work.

When you have 100% failure rate with a single syringe, there is a 99% chance you have a contam'd syringe.

You won't be able to get much from it without agar.

What are you trying to accomplish?


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18866760 - 09/20/13 09:06 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Beppe said:
Also the growth is not a slime. It's between cauliflower and over cooked rice. I even mashed some in mygloves one day and it was not slime at all.




What you describe is either just wet BRF or bacteria.


Quote:










This is what you are talking about, correct?


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18866780 - 09/20/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I just didn't want to blame the issue being anything but my fault. If it's simply the syringe I will know within a week because 2 new jars are a different syringe/strain. Now if those get this same growth I'm back to attempting to isolate the variable.

But it can't be wet brf because of it's texture when pressed between glover fingers is too firm. It's got characteristics of something that was broken down by a biological process rather then moist grain.


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18866788 - 09/20/13 09:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah those are mine!


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18866792 - 09/20/13 09:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)


Quote:

Beppe said:
The point of the experiment would be to see the unsterilized test jar contam with 0% chance of it being spore related and comparing the contam growth and distribution with my jars.





There is zero chance a non-sterilized jar will do anything other than germinate and grow whatever has been in the air and on the grains or rice since before harvest.  What grows has nothing to do with what would grow if the jar were sterilized and inoculated.
RR


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #18866813 - 09/20/13 09:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

So my answers are: wet brf or unknown?
This thread had nothing to do with my recently concocted test jars. It was about identifying the growth in my jars man?


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18866822 - 09/20/13 09:24 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

RR you just proved my point! Nothing will grow in the jars except whatever airborne contams are present and I need to know if there is some airborne variable that can cause this growth that no one has named or identified beyond "wet brf or idk contam"


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18866846 - 09/20/13 09:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't think you quite understand the futility of leaving a jar unsterilized. There are millions of different bacteria species and mold spores in your air.  What grows on your unsterilized cake will not tell you anything except that you now have a mess of different contams and can't tell them all apart.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18866850 - 09/20/13 09:31 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It doesn't matter.  Nobody cares to even attempt to identify local spore loads.  This is the reason we sterilize before starting.
RR


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #18866861 - 09/20/13 09:34 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Lmao "it doesn't matter, try new syringe and fuck off" alright thanks guys. Appreciate that.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #18866878 - 09/20/13 09:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RogerRabbit said:
It doesn't matter.  Nobody cares to even attempt to identify local spore loads.  This is the reason we sterilize before starting.
RR




:whathesaid:

contams are contams. If you want to try to grow a "new" contam, you are in the wrong place. We are here to help you grow mushrooms.

Quote:

Beppe said:
Lmao "it doesn't matter, try new syringe and fuck off" alright thanks guys. Appreciate that.




Really? We're offering you advice that you can't get anywhere but here. Don't get angry because the advice you get is not the advice you want to hear.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


Edited by FrankHorrigan (09/20/13 09:44 AM)


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InvisiblePastywhyteMDiscord
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18866916 - 09/20/13 09:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Beppe said:
Lmao "it doesn't matter, try new syringe and fuck off" alright thanks guys. Appreciate that.



:smbfacepalm:


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OfflineBeppe
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Pastywhyte]
    #18867085 - 09/20/13 10:40 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Ahh! Im not angry! Sorry for the impression. That absolutely did come off as ungrateful.

All I was interested in was whether this is odd mycelium or an unknown contam
If it is an unknown contam it should be documented because it looks mycelium like in some spots (rhizomorphic growth) and has next to no odor. That's all.

I see there has been tons of miscommunication here and no doubt that's partly my fault.

Thank you all for your help. You guys have taught me more then you know already, I was just looking for feedback and to possibly contribute to the contam log.


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InvisibleJuiceh
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18868435 - 09/20/13 04:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Beppe said:
It makes plenty of sense if you think about it.



:goodluckwiththat2:


--------------------
Trade List

How I make 15 lbs of casing in a 941. How I line 12 shoeboxes with 1 39gal bag. How I Deep Fry Cubes!
RogerRabbit said:You need a bigger pressure cooker for this hobby. RR


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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18868662 - 09/20/13 05:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Beppe said:
RR you just proved my point! Nothing will grow in the jars except whatever airborne contams are present and I need to know if there is some airborne variable that can cause this growth that no one has named or identified beyond "wet brf or idk contam"




But if one of the jars is unsterilized then the results are irrelevant.

What is being suggested is to steam two jars and inoculate one so that you can -hopefully- see if it’s your sterilisation technique or your syringe….


--------------------
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Too weird to live, and too rare to die.



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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Beppe]
    #18868870 - 09/20/13 05:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Beppe said:
Yeah I understand the implications but I'm pretty sure if there's a cauliflower contam that doesn't match any other white/grey contams this photo should be added to the common contam FAQ pics even if no one knows wtf it is or how I got it in 5 jars.

I'm telling you it's not any of the grey/white contams. This stuff looks like the white tissue that grows on wounds in your mouth. Not quite a cream, not quite a water logged rice grain.

No glove box yet! I just closed off air in a bathroom and had all fans off for hours, then slowly shifted into the room- slowly shut the door- and then waited a bit for air to slow down from the door closing. Then I knocked them jars up with Accidently too much MS syringe. My novice hands dosed out 1-1.5cc a jar



:goodluckwiththat2:


The bathroom is the biggest bacterial party of the century.


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InvisibleDoc_D
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Sockadin]
    #18870498 - 09/21/13 01:27 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Sockadin said:
Quote:

Beppe said:
Yeah I understand the implications but I'm pretty sure if there's a cauliflower contam that doesn't match any other white/grey contams this photo should be added to the common contam FAQ pics even if no one knows wtf it is or how I got it in 5 jars.

I'm telling you it's not any of the grey/white contams. This stuff looks like the white tissue that grows on wounds in your mouth. Not quite a cream, not quite a water logged rice grain.

No glove box yet! I just closed off air in a bathroom and had all fans off for hours, then slowly shifted into the room- slowly shut the door- and then waited a bit for air to slow down from the door closing. Then I knocked them jars up with Accidently too much MS syringe. My novice hands dosed out 1-1.5cc a jar



:goodluckwiththat2:


The bathroom is the biggest bacterial party of the century.




Second only to the kitchen!!      :wink:


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A high-powered mutant of some kind never even considered for mass production.

Too weird to live, and too rare to die.



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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
The Inquisition
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Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: I discovered new contam?? [Re: Doc_D]
    #18870501 - 09/21/13 01:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Can we let this thread die please? :rolleyes:


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Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


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