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InvisibleEchro
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The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts
    #18854810 - 09/17/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)



--------------------
"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


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Invisiblestarmon
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts *DELETED* [Re: Echro]
    #18855022 - 09/17/13 07:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Post deleted by starmon

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OfflineSagescruffy
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: starmon]
    #18855351 - 09/17/13 08:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

good read


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Love.


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: Echro]
    #18855408 - 09/17/13 08:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It makes sense that people wouldn't want to smoke very small amounts of crack, the shitty high isn't worth the crash that comes worth it.  As much as I love blow, I know that if I'm offered 1 line I always refuse as its not worth the negative side effects.  If it was opiates the results would be different though, but that's another story all together.


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Offlinestanski
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: fapjack]
    #18855948 - 09/17/13 10:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yea would like to see the study done with opiates, benzos, or alcohol. Not surprising that drugs that don't feature extremely nasty withdrawals feature people that are able to make rational decisions. I doubt that would be the case with the downers listed.

Its funny how demonized stims are though compared to their actual addictiveness, I even have noticed myself succumbing to this. When dating a girl who admitted to smoking crack once, I literally freaked out and immediately thought of the worst, thought wow what if you would have gotten addicted from that one hit! What if you are addicted right now! Then later in life I tried crystal once, realized yea it feels fuckin great, makes you chase the rush, and keeps you awake for days, but also doesn't leave you "fiending" after those couple days like i was told (and i haven't used it nor had a desire to in the years since). I shouldn't have been surprised that I was again lied to by dare/elders, but i was.


Edited by stanski (09/17/13 10:46 PM)


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: stanski]
    #18856139 - 09/17/13 11:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Wanna know how to stop a serious crack addiction?  You go the fuck to bed...  Having been addicted to a drug that actually produces physical dependency (and had problems with drugs that didn't) there really isn't any comparison.  I know the indivdual makes a big difference, but a coke habit and a dope habit aren't even comparable.  If I didn't have to worry about WDs every time I woke up I would have kicked heroin years before I did.  I can't even understand how people end up with serious coke habits, then again I can't understand how people continually relapse on opiates even though I've done it countless times...


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InvisibleDickhead
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: fapjack]
    #18856256 - 09/17/13 11:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

This is a very important study.  I've read a number of articles about this particular study and Dr. Hart.  He is a brave researcher and the pay off will be a greater understanding of not just addiction, but the dangerous drug culture stereotypes most assume as realistic.


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OfflineChuckfinely
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: fapjack]
    #18857023 - 09/18/13 08:05 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
Wanna know how to stop a serious crack addiction?  You go the fuck to bed...  Having been addicted to a drug that actually produces physical dependency (and had problems with drugs that didn't) there really isn't any comparison.  I know the indivdual makes a big difference, but a coke habit and a dope habit aren't even comparable.  If I didn't have to worry about WDs every time I woke up I would have kicked heroin years before I did.  I can't even understand how people end up with serious coke habits, then again I can't understand how people continually relapse on opiates even though I've done it countless times...





Quoted for massive amounts of truth.

I'm in the same boat as you were with the heroin. I used every other drug, besides trying meth, and have had absolutely no pull to do them again. Waking up drenched in sweat and with a baseball sized knot in my stomach cause I slept for longer than 6 hours is starting to get really really old.

I've only been going for about a year, and I've never IV'd it. I managed to kick it for like a month in the middle, but then i took a hydrocodone from my dentist. I figured one wouldn't do anything since i was used to such stronger opiates. 30 minutes later i had caught a buzz and was ordering up 2g's of food :thumbdown:


I've tried kratom to take the edge off WD's, but even 6g from a trusted vendor here didn't produce any noticeable relief


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #18857160 - 09/18/13 09:17 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Try another vendor and get some strong Maeng Da or Bali and take a larger dose if needed, kratom will help to some extent I am sure, its not a free pass but it will help.

I found the statistic amazing that 90 percent of meth users do not become addicted, as I have frequently heard the exact opposite thrown around (many sources say as high as 90 percent of meth users will become addicted).


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InvisibleK1ngSp4de
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: Moonshoe]
    #18857512 - 09/18/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

:rules: Copy and paste the news article.

Very interesting. Being addicted to Meth one day and able to completely stop the next over ten years ago, I can relate to this and say that a mental addiction isn't hard to stop at all you just have to want to. Physical addiction is another story.


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                                    PC Repair and Troubleshooting Forum

If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so.
                                                - Thomas Jefferson

                    Si peccasse negamus fallimur et nulla est in nobis veritas.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: K1ngSp4de]
    #18857953 - 09/18/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

“Eighty to 90 percent of people who use crack and methamphetamine don’t get addicted,” said Dr. Hart, an associate professor of psychology. "


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Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: Moonshoe]
    #18858038 - 09/18/13 01:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Doesn't surprise me.  The media tends to horribly overexaggerate the addictive potential of drugs because shock value sells.  :shrug:


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleEchro
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: K1ngSp4de]
    #18858298 - 09/18/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

K1ngSp4de said:
:rules: Copy and paste the news article.





I knew I'd get called on that. I apologize. Normally I'd provide more than just the link but I was in a rush when I posted this. All the ads on the page were gonna make copying the article in one go a bitch. No worries, however, as you can expect better from me next time  :biggrin::thumbup:


--------------------
"People who take Life seriously are going to find it slipping through their fingers in a very maddening fashion." ~ Terence McKenna

"You still want to go on living on your knees. But I have understood life.
And anyone who understands life cannot live on his knees." ~ Renzo Novatore


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OfflineWhoManBeing
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: fapjack]
    #18858390 - 09/18/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
It makes sense that people wouldn't want to smoke very small amounts of crack, the shitty high isn't worth the crash that comes worth it.  As much as I love blow, I know that if I'm offered 1 line I always refuse as its not worth the negative side effects.  If it was opiates the results would be different though, but that's another story all together.




negative side effects can be diminished with good live, raw foods and of course... rum.  Row.Ho.Ho...


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Eye was thinking the other day...  ahh, thinking never done me no good.



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OfflineDeviate
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: fapjack]
    #18861785 - 09/19/13 07:13 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
Wanna know how to stop a serious crack addiction?  You go the fuck to bed...  Having been addicted to a drug that actually produces physical dependency (and had problems with drugs that didn't) there really isn't any comparison.  I know the indivdual makes a big difference, but a coke habit and a dope habit aren't even comparable.  If I didn't have to worry about WDs every time I woke up I would have kicked heroin years before I did.  I can't even understand how people end up with serious coke habits, then again I can't understand how people continually relapse on opiates even though I've done it countless times...





I know how people relapse. They convince themselves that they are only going to use that day and not end up totally strung out again.

But I think the point of his research was that when people have alternative options for enjoying themselves they are less likely to abuse drugs to their great detriment, I think this holds true with both crack and opiates.

Just speaking from my own experience, I would agree that the two drugs are totally different ballgames. The major difference for me was that if I was smoking crack and I ran out of money, it was no problem. After the initial fiending period ended, I would usually be relieved that the binge was over and I could go to sleep. although I used to quite enjoy a good hit of crack, I did not enjoy smoking it 24/7. With opiates on the other hand, the problem is that it doesn't matter whether you want to get high or not, whether you have money or not, when you run out, you are in big trouble for several days until you get more. Cocaine has a reputation of being a rich man's drug and yet plenty of extremely poor people use cocaine, they just don't use it when they run out of cash. Other than taking their money it doesn't even negatively effect their lives very much, because they cant afford enough. With opiates on the other hand, the cycle of withdrawal sickness can ruin the life of anyone without a steady supply.

But I think the point of this study and what is true in my case at least is that there is a deeper underlying issue behind addiction and it is not the irresistability of the drugs. Rather, it is depression/boredom/loneliness, etc that cause people to feel like they are lacking viable options for life beside using drugs. In my case, I have struggled a lot with forming relationships and often times it was my desire for a girlfriend but total inability to get close to a girl, that lead me to feel bored, isolated and depressed and i felt like I had no other option for obtaining the sensual pleasure i desired, other than drugs. i just wasnt satisfied living a life of waking up,going to work (which i always hated) only to go home and have to get ready to go to work the next day, never having any fun inbetween that lead me to abuse drugs. Here is the thing though, when i was addicted to drugs if you had offered me  one million dollars to quit, i definitely would have. I owuld even have quit heroin for one million dollars.


So the point to take away is that while there is an impulsive aspect to drug use, there is also a rational aspect. In other words, my drug use was a rational decision. It was a way of coping with a life that was unsatisfactory. It wasn't a particularly wise or skillful coping method but it was a coping method none the less. If you had offered me one million dollars, then I would have had something else enjoyable to live for and would have gladly chosen that over drugs.

So i believe drug addiction results from an addicts failure to enjoy life more than anything else.


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: Deviate]
    #18861829 - 09/19/13 07:33 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well if coke was as cheap a high as heroin I'm sure a lot more people would abuse it more often.


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OfflineChuckfinely
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: Deviate]
    #18862639 - 09/19/13 11:30 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

fapjack said:
Wanna know how to stop a serious crack addiction?  You go the fuck to bed...  Having been addicted to a drug that actually produces physical dependency (and had problems with drugs that didn't) there really isn't any comparison.  I know the indivdual makes a big difference, but a coke habit and a dope habit aren't even comparable.  If I didn't have to worry about WDs every time I woke up I would have kicked heroin years before I did.  I can't even understand how people end up with serious coke habits, then again I can't understand how people continually relapse on opiates even though I've done it countless times...





I know how people relapse. They convince themselves that they are only going to use that day and not end up totally strung out again.

But I think the point of his research was that when people have alternative options for enjoying themselves they are less likely to abuse drugs to their great detriment, I think this holds true with both crack and opiates.

Just speaking from my own experience, I would agree that the two drugs are totally different ballgames. The major difference for me was that if I was smoking crack and I ran out of money, it was no problem. After the initial fiending period ended, I would usually be relieved that the binge was over and I could go to sleep. although I used to quite enjoy a good hit of crack, I did not enjoy smoking it 24/7. With opiates on the other hand, the problem is that it doesn't matter whether you want to get high or not, whether you have money or not, when you run out, you are in big trouble for several days until you get more. Cocaine has a reputation of being a rich man's drug and yet plenty of extremely poor people use cocaine, they just don't use it when they run out of cash. Other than taking their money it doesn't even negatively effect their lives very much, because they cant afford enough. With opiates on the other hand, the cycle of withdrawal sickness can ruin the life of anyone without a steady supply.

But I think the point of this study and what is true in my case at least is that there is a deeper underlying issue behind addiction and it is not the irresistability of the drugs. Rather, it is depression/boredom/loneliness, etc that cause people to feel like they are lacking viable options for life beside using drugs. In my case, I have struggled a lot with forming relationships and often times it was my desire for a girlfriend but total inability to get close to a girl, that lead me to feel bored, isolated and depressed and i felt like I had no other option for obtaining the sensual pleasure i desired, other than drugs. i just wasnt satisfied living a life of waking up,going to work (which i always hated) only to go home and have to get ready to go to work the next day, never having any fun inbetween that lead me to abuse drugs. Here is the thing though, when i was addicted to drugs if you had offered me  one million dollars to quit, i definitely would have. I owuld even have quit heroin for one million dollars.


So the point to take away is that while there is an impulsive aspect to drug use, there is also a rational aspect. In other words, my drug use was a rational decision. It was a way of coping with a life that was unsatisfactory. It wasn't a particularly wise or skillful coping method but it was a coping method none the less. If you had offered me one million dollars, then I would have had something else enjoyable to live for and would have gladly chosen that over drugs.

So i believe drug addiction results from an addicts failure to enjoy life more than anything else.





Believe me when i say I want nothing more then to be able to kick heroin. honestly if you offered me a time machine and I could go back and do one single thing, I would go back and knock that first line off my piece of glass and then give my self a good beat down. I wouldn't go play the lotto, i wouldn't hide my money and assets from my ex wife, i wouldn't stop myself from getting arrested and going to jail; over everything I would change my decision to start using heroin.

The WD's own you. Imagine having the worst flu of your life, running 2 miles in 85 degree heat with 90% RH, while being stabbed in the gut over and over, then have 4 really big guys beat your ass right up until you're about to pass out from the pain but cant.
  That's what it feels like


I relapsed because i had a migraine for 3 days so i figured I could take one vicodin, i mean i was on heroin so a vico shouldn't do anything right? Wrong. Caught a buzz and was buying 2g's in the hood about an hour later. this stuff is poison from the devil himself


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #18862709 - 09/19/13 11:53 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The withdrawls aren't the hardest part, they next 3 months are.  Not being able to sleep, being bored as shit, being super emotional, and just not knowing what the fuck to do with yourself.  If you really wanna get off smack, I would suggest going to a detox as far away as you can find, get someone to drive you or take a bus with no money and that's it.  Maybe bring a $50 cc to buy food.


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OfflineChuckfinely
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: fapjack] * 1
    #18862764 - 09/19/13 12:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I managed to sober up for a month about half a year ago because i actually got a cold so bad i couldn't sniff any(i refuse to ever IV it) or keep any vicodin down without puking.

  That month was the best I've ever felt in my entire life. I had so much energy and was so happy, I felt like a 100% different person. Even better then I was when I had never used. It was like I was reborn. I had no desire to get high, I even flushed like 200$ worth of smack and a good 50 10mg hydro's cause i didn't even want to wait and sell it. everything was like a new happy experience, until that fkin migraine and my dumb ass thought i could handle a vicodin :thumbdown:


All that good feeling at the end and I still cant force myself to go through 8 days of dope sick. The past month I've been weening myself pretty well. I went from using about 200mg per day to 40-60mg per day. Hopefully the WD's wont be as bad if im able to stop while only using lightly. When i sobered up for that month i was coming off of using 250mg per day cold turkey, so i think that made it a little worse.


I have a friend who has been using for about 2 years. He doesn't get sick at all. I've seen him go cold turkey for 2 weeks right after a really heavy IV binge the previous 4 months. He didnt even sweat!
I am beyond envious of his body's ability to just go cold turkey with no reaction


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: The Rational Choices of Crack Addicts [Re: Chuckfinely]
    #18862795 - 09/19/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks for sharing your experiences Chuck! Sorry your having a hard time of it. That was quite illuminating.

Are you still using?

I will take your advice and never try that first line or taste of H. Are you still using?

Its also interesting that you never use needles because

A. I thought most addicts eventually graduate to the needle and
B. some think if you dont use the needle you wont get as addicted but your experience has been fullblown addiction even without the needle.

Anyways I wish you all the best and my only advice is to A. Taper off slowly and B. Substitute with good kratom.


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