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Offlinelifeiswhatyoumake
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: Shroomism]
    #18861452 - 09/19/13 02:18 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I agreed with your decision from the start Shroomism.  :shrug:

Common sense.


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InvisibleTrentBoyett
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #18861470 - 09/19/13 02:29 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't read this whole thread, but for the most part I like the mods here.

Any time I've received an infraction it was completely my fault for not following the rules.


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OfflineSoulidarity
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: TrentBoyett]
    #18861486 - 09/19/13 02:38 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Random reply, but I've had a lot of interactions with the mods and in general they are good people's. they do this shit for free. They are people too and they don't like having to clean up bullshit. All you have to do is be respectful and stay off their radar. They are extremely lenient here, but people take them for granted and overstep the boundaries and wonder why they get banned or harassed.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: Psilosopherr] * 1
    #18861630 - 09/19/13 04:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

This is the essential problem of moderating a forum, with the mods/admins being active contributors to the debate.
The 'primes inter pares' approach artificially creates an elevated moral ground that IMO cannot be defended in the end.


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OfflineSurReality
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: koraks]
    #18861761 - 09/19/13 06:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You're right. This topic could have been handled much more maturely by a certain mod.


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: Shroomism]
    #18861837 - 09/19/13 07:38 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I understand why they don't allow dosage advice, I think most people here do.  I just think its stupid, every other message board allows it.  The people that would give out shitty dosage information probably wouldn't know the rules anyway, and as such would still give out dosage information.  I've seen it happen here before, with the no dosage rule.  Why even have an Other Drugs forum at all?


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: CidneyIndole] * 1
    #18861902 - 09/19/13 08:04 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Say  this a hundred more times, if you'd like. That won't make it any more true.




Of course it's true. Asking a maximum dosage is asking for dosage advice. That's not debatable.

You can debate whether the rule is a good one. You can debate if it should even be a rule.

However, it is a rule. He did violate it.

John did the right thing by banning him.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18862008 - 09/19/13 08:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Say  this a hundred more times, if you'd like. That won't make it any more true.




Of course it's true. Asking a maximum dosage is asking for dosage advice. That's not debatable.




It certainly is debatable. I could ask what dosages of arsenic are fatal and have no intention of taking arsenic. Obviously in that case I am seeking not advice but information. Perhaps that should be against the rules, but IMO users shouldn't be required to deduce from the "no advice" rule that it's against the rules to ask what doses can be fatal. If it's considered to be against the rules, that should be more explicit.

I've seen a number of threads where people ask what doses other people have taken of a given drug. These threads were not locked, presumably because asking for this information is not considered to be the same as asking for advice. Obviously someone could take that information into account when deciding what dose to take themselves (with potentially dangerous results) but in a literal sense no advice was asked for or given. Asking "What dose did you do" or "What dose killed someone else" just is not the same thing as asking "What dose should I do." If it is to be considered as such, the rules should say so clearly.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: psi]
    #18862071 - 09/19/13 09:09 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You can call it information until the cows come home. It's still advice.

Asking someone how much "they" took is not advice.

Asking how much will kill you is. Not only is it asking for advice, it's not a question that can be answered with any great certainty. There are too many variables.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18862094 - 09/19/13 09:14 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Say  this a hundred more times, if you'd like. That won't make it any more true.




Of course it's true. Asking a maximum dosage is asking for dosage advice. That's not debatable.

You can debate whether the rule is a good one. You can debate if it should even be a rule.

However, it is a rule. He did violate it.

John did the right thing by banning him.



An LD50 is not dosage advice, and that rule was rarely enforced and was selective until recently.  I can go back and find over 10,000 threads with dosage information where no one was banned, the threads weren't locked or deleted, and a lot of the dosage information was given out by mods before they were mods.  The rule is fucking stupid.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18862104 - 09/19/13 09:17 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
You can call it information until the cows come home. It's still advice.

Asking someone how much "they" took is not advice.

Asking how much will kill you is.




You've asserted that a number of times. What exactly makes it advice again?

Quote:

it's not a question that can be answered with any great certainty. There are too many variables.




I agree with you there.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: koraks]
    #18862105 - 09/19/13 09:18 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

koraks said:
This is the essential problem of moderating a forum, with the mods/admins being active contributors to the debate.
The 'primes inter pares' approach artificially creates an elevated moral ground that IMO cannot be defended in the end.



shroomery can change the planet, by ... having auto mods!1


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: fapjack]
    #18862118 - 09/19/13 09:20 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Of course it's dosage advice. It's the textbook definition.

Quote:

ad·vice
ədˈvīs/
noun
noun: advice

    1.
    guidance or recommendations concerning prudent future action, typically given by someone regarded as knowledgeable or authoritative.




To be consistent all the threads you mentioned should have been locked.

You may consider the rule stupid. Many, including the admins of the site, appear to disagree.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18862223 - 09/19/13 09:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If memory serves they panicked after ripper died and put that rule into place.  I don't remember the specifics though, as that was a long time ago but I still think its fucking stupid.  You are free to have your own opinion, which really doesn't mean anything to me either.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18862238 - 09/19/13 09:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Of course it's dosage advice. It's the textbook definition.

Quote:

ad�vice
ədˈvīs/
noun
noun: advice

    1.
    guidance or recommendations concerning prudent future action, typically given by someone regarded as knowledgeable or authoritative.








Asking what doses of XYZ can be fatal is not in itself an explicit request for guidance or recommendations, any more than asking others what doses they have taken (and survived obviously.) You might argue that it's implied that personal guidance or recommendations are desired, but they are not being asked for explicitly.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: psi]
    #18862247 - 09/19/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well, we disagree.


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: psi]
    #18862248 - 09/19/13 09:52 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Asking if eating cyanide will kill someone isn't dosage advice either, don't bother arguing the rule won't change.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18862292 - 09/19/13 10:01 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Well, we disagree.




Fair enough. IMO the rules could stand to go into a little more detail on what is and isn't acceptable if that's going to be the interpretation though.


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Offlineg00ru
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: psi]
    #18862297 - 09/19/13 10:02 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

thing about dosage advice is, people ask the question all the time of whether to dose in the first place at all...forget about asking how much to take, even telling someone 'do it' or 'don't do it' is like the core of the whole issue  :crazyeyes:


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InvisibleMentalMeltdown
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: g00ru]
    #18862742 - 09/19/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That poem thread that got locked by Wiccan was ridiculous. He started the thread and didnt like how conversation went so threw down a ban and locked the thread.

I never have a problem with mods are admins but after witnessing that thread its clear Wiccan is a pusillanimous prick.

Mod edit: No flaming..


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Edited by tymoteusz3 (09/19/13 12:29 PM)


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