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Unfolding Nature Shop: Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlineflat1
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Registered: 09/01/13
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #18854665 - 09/17/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

navarre beach gulf pier...yeah they were about to be the chum themselves.  :fishsmack:


--------------------


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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Registered: 07/06/13
Posts: 717
Loc: Flag
Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Ras Rising]
    #18857099 - 09/18/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rasliam said:
Quote:

Psilopsychosis said:
I fish but I throw everything I catch back unless it is hooked in the gills and it will die.
As long as you don't fish illegally I don't think fishing is especially cruel.
It is impossible to get food to your table without killing animals, same goes for shelter, power, water and all other things we need to live.
I shouldn't even have to mention all things we have but not need.
Modern recreational fishing if done legally is very humane and is selective.
You can't fish more than one fish at a time unless you use nets or have a
whole bunch of rods trolling.




Its very possible to get food to your table without the killing of animals, and same got shelter power and all the other things we need to live. Yes animal products are convenient and easy to convert but there are better materials for all our needs.




I am not talking about animal products...

Think about all the animals who die when their habitat is destroyed to make orgainc soyabean fields.
Think about all the animals who die when the timber that is used to build your home is harvested.
Think about the incredible amount of animals that die when a river is walled off by a dam and everything behind it is flooded.
I don't know about you but Id rather have my throat slit and gutted then freeze or starve to death over winter.

That is just type of stuff that happens in our countries.
Everytime someone eats (real) mdma they are helping to destroy large parts of Cambodian rainforest and push and ancient tree that has been used medecinally by the natives for centuries into extinction... I bet you love your mdma.

It is completely impossible for us, modern westerners to live the way that we live without having an negative impact on the enviroment around us. Such is the price of civilization. One fish is conscious but so is everything else... Every plant, every frog, every ant, every tree and every microscopic bacteria is conscious of being itself, that is because it is a lpart of a larger conciousness, a Great Spirit or a God or, as the Algonquin called it Gitche Manitou, the great mystery. That little individual fish does not matter, what matters is pond ecosystem that ot lives in. If people weren't willing to eat some of that ecosytem, no one would be keeping tabs on and making sure no one does anything fucked up, like dumping chemicals.

I think it was the Algonquin that used to chase a moose into a lake and surrond it with canoes, poke at it with spears and drown it to death...
Is there anything wrong with that?
I don't think so.


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Offlineloco801
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Registered: 09/21/08
Posts: 991
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18860459 - 09/18/13 09:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Think about all the animals who die when their habitat is destroyed to make orgainc soyabean fields.
Think about all the animals who die when the timber that is used to build your home is harvested.
Think about the incredible amount of animals that die when a river is walled off by a dam and everything behind it is flooded.
I don't know about you but Id rather have my throat slit and gutted then freeze or starve to death over winter.




WTF does this have ANYTHING to do with fishing?


--------------------
:mushroom2:Species found::mushroom2:
P. azurescens
P. cyanescens
P. semilanceata
P. pelliculosa
P. stuntzii
G. luteofolius
Pan. cinctulus


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Invisiblefunegi
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: loco801]
    #18861927 - 09/19/13 08:13 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

my response to op or any other poster about this type of subject/argument is:  humans are the worst thing ever put on earth and have contributed absolutely nothing to its betterment/improvement or even its un unaffected sustainment.  get use to people not feeling/doing the same as you.  get use to people fucking shit up till the end of time.

if you think you can change this....you are in for sad surprise. 
entropy is a law of nature, and man is no exception to is rule.


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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Posts: 717
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: loco801]
    #18861955 - 09/19/13 08:24 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

WTF does this have ANYTHING to do with fishing?






Ya it the wasn't the most clear of points...

All I am trying to say is that everything we do as humans negatively affects animals and their habitat. OP said on page 1 that it is possible to get the things we need to survive with out fucking with the environment. I think that is idealistic nonsense. Of all the things that could impact the environment a little catch ad release (even catch and eat too) are not that big a deal.

Thats all I was trying to say.


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Offlineloco801
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Posts: 991
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18863085 - 09/19/13 01:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well yeah. We cannot control other people or what they do. All we can do is spread word and if you see someone doing illegal activites then report it to Wildlife officials. I myself found some bear/cougar bait in the woods recently.

As for things like dams, houses, soybean fields we need to find other natural ways. Sometimes dams improve the environment. People replant trees in areas thay have been logged. There are ways to help the environment.

I always pick up any trash when I go fishing and hope others do too, but you cant fix stupid. Those who dont give a shit are the ones who ruin it. I see dumped trash all over the local lakes and rivers a lot.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Species found::mushroom2:
P. azurescens
P. cyanescens
P. semilanceata
P. pelliculosa
P. stuntzii
G. luteofolius
Pan. cinctulus


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Ras Rising]
    #18863151 - 09/19/13 01:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rasliam said:
As a nature enthusiast and lover i decided to gander over here to The Great Outdoors thread. Immediately I noticed the large amounts of fishing related threads all from a similar perspective so I decided to create my own.

Now i can understand the excitement and thrill that is associated with fishing and also other social aspects that can be included in the experience.

I am more able to empathize with the fisher whom relies on it as a source of vital food necessary for survival as apposed to sport and recreational.

I just cant seem to understand how it can be seen as humane to rip jaws, flesh, chunks, bits, tear fins, descale, terrify, and suffocate these beautiful forms of life. To cause them to bleed and to loose eyes for fun and enjoyment.

Surly that's not the purpose to maim these fish and aquatic animals, but there is no way to ensure that you are not injuring these fish while using needle sharp fish hooks and lures.

Not only does it cause physical harm but there are numerous study's on the effects on overall breeding habits, migrations, and environmental impacts that fishing has on the natural environment.

Fish are living creatures as you and I and some species can sense pain very similarly to us. However most sense pain in different ways very uncompareable.

Surely i am not the only one who sees fishing as a negative and harmful sport.





Having been fishing and eating fish for a lifetime I fully agree with your position.  In the same way as eating any animal is causing pain to one degree or another.  Saying different is making excuses for one's life choices.  Good topic for here btw. :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRas Rising
Friend of Nature
I'm a teapot


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/13
Posts: 4,442
Loc: Once Under, Always Over (...
Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Corporal Kielbasa]
    #18863386 - 09/19/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Corporal Kielbasa said:
Driving in cars kills so much wildlife. I can see all the frogs, toads, snakes, turtles, mice, rabbits, squirrels, raccoon, possums etc splattered and spread across the highways.  Most people are so oblivious to the fact that they are killing stuff almost every time they drive down a country road. I try to notice the critters and try to avoid them.  But being a passenger I notice just how many are on the road and how oblivious drivers can be.

Sorry its off topic.  But since we are talking about being cruel and killing animals.  Lets talk about all the wasted life we obliviously crush on our way to the mall or what ever.

spring rains bring out all the frogs and salamanders and they migrate from the forests to the bodies of water to do it for a few nights.  On their way across roads they get annihilated by the thousands.  IMO certain roads should be closed a few days during the wet breading season.




It is truly a sad sight to behold without question, i would say it follows along with the topic. I too remorse for all the destruction as a race humans have caused, how wide spread and how barbaric. Babylonian corruption at every turn. I try my best and do what i can on this earth to live in a harmonious symbiotic relationship while living in Babylon.  thank you for your post and consideration to the human impact.


--------------------
:bliss:To be altruistic and humble, to spread love and positivity where ever I go.*:bliss: 

*Does not include the Romp 
:inlove3::sunny::shroomeryhead::feelsshroomyman::shroomeryhead::sunny::inlove3:
Test Kits? SurRealitys gocchu'!


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InvisibleRas Rising
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I'm a teapot


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Registered: 07/13/13
Posts: 4,442
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18863414 - 09/19/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilopsychosis said:
Quote:

Rasliam said:
Quote:

Psilopsychosis said:
I fish but I throw everything I catch back unless it is hooked in the gills and it will die.
As long as you don't fish illegally I don't think fishing is especially cruel.
It is impossible to get food to your table without killing animals, same goes for shelter, power, water and all other things we need to live.
I shouldn't even have to mention all things we have but not need.
Modern recreational fishing if done legally is very humane and is selective.
You can't fish more than one fish at a time unless you use nets or have a
whole bunch of rods trolling.




Its very possible to get food to your table without the killing of animals, and same got shelter power and all the other things we need to live. Yes animal products are convenient and easy to convert but there are better materials for all our needs.




I am not talking about animal products...

Think about all the animals who die when their habitat is destroyed to make orgainc soyabean fields.
Think about all the animals who die when the timber that is used to build your home is harvested.
Think about the incredible amount of animals that die when a river is walled off by a dam and everything behind it is flooded.
I don't know about you but Id rather have my throat slit and gutted then freeze or starve to death over winter.

That is just type of stuff that happens in our countries.
Everytime someone eats (real) mdma they are helping to destroy large parts of Cambodian rainforest and push and ancient tree that has been used medecinally by the natives for centuries into extinction... I bet you love your mdma.

It is completely impossible for us, modern westerners to live the way that we live without having an negative impact on the enviroment around us. Such is the price of civilization. One fish is conscious but so is everything else... Every plant, every frog, every ant, every tree and every microscopic bacteria is conscious of being itself, that is because it is a lpart of a larger conciousness, a Great Spirit or a God or, as the Algonquin called it Gitche Manitou, the great mystery. That little individual fish does not matter, what matters is pond ecosystem that ot lives in. If people weren't willing to eat some of that ecosytem, no one would be keeping tabs on and making sure no one does anything fucked up, like dumping chemicals.

I think it was the Algonquin that used to chase a moose into a lake and surrond it with canoes, poke at it with spears and drown it to death...
Is there anything wrong with that?
I don't think so.




But i still say that this doesn't have to be that fate of the planet and this does not have to be "the price of civilization". So much of our history as humans has been building upon the blocks of nature, we rarely build something new. If we push efforts to one of a conscious aspect to build with nature instead of masking and building over it. I really enjoyed your knowledge of the Alqonquin, i have a friend whom is an Ojibwe wisdom keeper and he has shared similar insights. This is not the way it has to be, we are destroying this earth and within mine and many of your lifetimes we will see the disappearance of the coral reefs, destruction of many species from all walks of life, rising of the seas, and many more tragic losses of life and this planets splendor.


--------------------
:bliss:To be altruistic and humble, to spread love and positivity where ever I go.*:bliss: 

*Does not include the Romp 
:inlove3::sunny::shroomeryhead::feelsshroomyman::shroomeryhead::sunny::inlove3:
Test Kits? SurRealitys gocchu'!


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InvisibleRas Rising
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I'm a teapot


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Registered: 07/13/13
Posts: 4,442
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18863428 - 09/19/13 03:08 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilopsychosis said:
Quote:

WTF does this have ANYTHING to do with fishing?






Ya it the wasn't the most clear of points...

All I am trying to say is that everything we do as humans negatively affects animals and their habitat. OP said on page 1 that it is possible to get the things we need to survive with out fucking with the environment. I think that is idealistic nonsense. Of all the things that could impact the environment a little catch ad release (even catch and eat too) are not that big a deal.

Thats all I was trying to say.




you're idealistic nonsense is anothers life. I have seen many a man and woman and family live in a very harmonious relationship with nature. Lives in which they can support and help support biodiversity and protect the natural world around them. As isolated as these occurrences happen i assure you they are much more than meer nonsense


--------------------
:bliss:To be altruistic and humble, to spread love and positivity where ever I go.*:bliss: 

*Does not include the Romp 
:inlove3::sunny::shroomeryhead::feelsshroomyman::shroomeryhead::sunny::inlove3:
Test Kits? SurRealitys gocchu'!


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InvisibleRas Rising
Friend of Nature
I'm a teapot


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/13
Posts: 4,442
Loc: Once Under, Always Over (...
Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Icelander]
    #18863439 - 09/19/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Rasliam said:
As a nature enthusiast and lover i decided to gander over here to The Great Outdoors thread. Immediately I noticed the large amounts of fishing related threads all from a similar perspective so I decided to create my own.

Now i can understand the excitement and thrill that is associated with fishing and also other social aspects that can be included in the experience.

I am more able to empathize with the fisher whom relies on it as a source of vital food necessary for survival as apposed to sport and recreational.

I just cant seem to understand how it can be seen as humane to rip jaws, flesh, chunks, bits, tear fins, descale, terrify, and suffocate these beautiful forms of life. To cause them to bleed and to loose eyes for fun and enjoyment.

Surly that's not the purpose to maim these fish and aquatic animals, but there is no way to ensure that you are not injuring these fish while using needle sharp fish hooks and lures.

Not only does it cause physical harm but there are numerous study's on the effects on overall breeding habits, migrations, and environmental impacts that fishing has on the natural environment.

Fish are living creatures as you and I and some species can sense pain very similarly to us. However most sense pain in different ways very uncompareable.

Surely i am not the only one who sees fishing as a negative and harmful sport.





Having been fishing and eating fish for a lifetime I fully agree with your position.  In the same way as eating any animal is causing pain to one degree or another.  Saying different is making excuses for one's life choices.  Good topic for here btw. :thumbup:




Thanks! its finally good to see someone understands, coming from a fisherman himself! i dont think i could have said it better.


--------------------
:bliss:To be altruistic and humble, to spread love and positivity where ever I go.*:bliss: 

*Does not include the Romp 
:inlove3::sunny::shroomeryhead::feelsshroomyman::shroomeryhead::sunny::inlove3:
Test Kits? SurRealitys gocchu'!


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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Registered: 07/06/13
Posts: 717
Loc: Flag
Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: loco801]
    #18864883 - 09/19/13 08:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

But i still say that this doesn't have to be that fate of the planet and this does not have to be "the price of civilization". So much of our history as humans has been building upon the blocks of nature, we rarely build something new. If we push efforts to one of a conscious aspect to build with nature instead of masking and building over it. I really enjoyed your knowledge of the Alqonquin, i have a friend whom is an Ojibwe wisdom keeper and he has shared similar insights. This is not the way it has to be, we are destroying this earth and within mine and many of your lifetimes we will see the disappearance of the coral reefs, destruction of many species from all walks of life, rising of the seas, and many more tragic losses of life and this planets splendor.





But why do you think fishing is a problem? Can we not fish in such a way that the damage to nature is minimal? Fishing only became a problem once people started fishing on-mass with huge nets scraping the ground and raping the ocean and lakes.


True it is not sustainable for every person to live off of the land, but the way that food is brought to us now by farming isn't sustainable either. I think a big positive change would come if more people started living more self-sustainable rurally on farms and communes while at the same time cities and towns started to produce most of their food by roof-top terrace farms and chicken coops. I read that Cuba because of the trade embargo and the collapse of the USSR they have almost no pesticides and industrial fertilizers that they have to use completely organic farming. Also because of the lack of transportation they have to bring the farms closer to the cites and towns  So instead of huge fields they have farms in every abandoned lot, in front yards, rooftops etc. This is pretty cool IMO, but Cuba sucks because if you say the wrong thing or get too eccentric they will throw you in prison. I think human rights and environmental rights should go hand in hand.

I agree with you I really do man but I think attacking people who fish is not the right use of your awesome giving a fuck energy. I was actually talking with my friend today about how this world could use more people who give a fuck.

I think the saddest thing is the end of true wild places. Wilderness means self-willed land and it is good for people to be humbled by the power of nature. That is why I fish, kayak(I kayak more than I fish to be honest) and hike . I like to head out into a water or forest or even swamp and just feel the energy of nature. It is amazing.

I find most people only care about nature in terms of resources, A forest should be neat and orderly so the trees can be used for 2 by 4s, toilet paper and toothpicks.  Coral reefs should be preserved so that tourists can visit and give the local economy money. It never occurs to them these things should exist just to be. Just to develop and evolve.

/end rant


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Offlineloco801
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Registered: 09/21/08
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Loc: NW Washington
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18865246 - 09/19/13 09:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Visited a stream that had close to 50 fish swim up in just the half hour we were there. At three points in the river we saw oil spilling into it and turning into an reddish-orange algae.

I think the people who litter are worse than fisherman.


--------------------
:mushroom2:Species found::mushroom2:
P. azurescens
P. cyanescens
P. semilanceata
P. pelliculosa
P. stuntzii
G. luteofolius
Pan. cinctulus


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InvisiblePsilopsychosis
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Registered: 07/06/13
Posts: 717
Loc: Flag
Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: loco801]
    #18866331 - 09/20/13 06:35 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Most definitely


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InvisibleRas Rising
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Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: loco801]
    #18869171 - 09/20/13 07:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

loco801 said:
Visited a stream that had close to 50 fish swim up in just the half hour we were there. At three points in the river we saw oil spilling into it and turning into an reddish-orange algae.

I think the people who litter are worse than fisherman.




then you have the polluting fisherman :P which is worse than the litterer alone. Thats very sad sight to see. :/


--------------------
:bliss:To be altruistic and humble, to spread love and positivity where ever I go.*:bliss: 

*Does not include the Romp 
:inlove3::sunny::shroomeryhead::feelsshroomyman::shroomeryhead::sunny::inlove3:
Test Kits? SurRealitys gocchu'!


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRas Rising
Friend of Nature
I'm a teapot


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 07/13/13
Posts: 4,442
Loc: Once Under, Always Over (...
Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Psilopsychosis]
    #18869185 - 09/20/13 07:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Psilopsychosis said:
Quote:

But i still say that this doesn't have to be that fate of the planet and this does not have to be "the price of civilization". So much of our history as humans has been building upon the blocks of nature, we rarely build something new. If we push efforts to one of a conscious aspect to build with nature instead of masking and building over it. I really enjoyed your knowledge of the Alqonquin, i have a friend whom is an Ojibwe wisdom keeper and he has shared similar insights. This is not the way it has to be, we are destroying this earth and within mine and many of your lifetimes we will see the disappearance of the coral reefs, destruction of many species from all walks of life, rising of the seas, and many more tragic losses of life and this planets splendor.





But why do you think fishing is a problem? Can we not fish in such a way that the damage to nature is minimal? Fishing only became a problem once people started fishing on-mass with huge nets scraping the ground and raping the ocean and lakes.


True it is not sustainable for every person to live off of the land, but the way that food is brought to us now by farming isn't sustainable either. I think a big positive change would come if more people started living more self-sustainable rurally on farms and communes while at the same time cities and towns started to produce most of their food by roof-top terrace farms and chicken coops. I read that Cuba because of the trade embargo and the collapse of the USSR they have almost no pesticides and industrial fertilizers that they have to use completely organic farming. Also because of the lack of transportation they have to bring the farms closer to the cites and towns  So instead of huge fields they have farms in every abandoned lot, in front yards, rooftops etc. This is pretty cool IMO, but Cuba sucks because if you say the wrong thing or get too eccentric they will throw you in prison. I think human rights and environmental rights should go hand in hand.

I agree with you I really do man but I think attacking people who fish is not the right use of your awesome giving a fuck energy. I was actually talking with my friend today about how this world could use more people who give a fuck.

I think the saddest thing is the end of true wild places. Wilderness means self-willed land and it is good for people to be humbled by the power of nature. That is why I fish, kayak(I kayak more than I fish to be honest) and hike . I like to head out into a water or forest or even swamp and just feel the energy of nature. It is amazing.

I find most people only care about nature in terms of resources, A forest should be neat and orderly so the trees can be used for 2 by 4s, toilet paper and toothpicks.  Coral reefs should be preserved so that tourists can visit and give the local economy money. It never occurs to them these things should exist just to be. Just to develop and evolve.

/end rant




thank you for your rant, im a bit tired to night but i just wanted to let you know that your words aren't falling upon deaf ears. Truly thank you for your posts  and your insight on this.


--------------------
:bliss:To be altruistic and humble, to spread love and positivity where ever I go.*:bliss: 

*Does not include the Romp 
:inlove3::sunny::shroomeryhead::feelsshroomyman::shroomeryhead::sunny::inlove3:
Test Kits? SurRealitys gocchu'!


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Invisible1234go
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Posts: 54,795
Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Rockhound]
    #18874067 - 09/21/13 10:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Rasliam said:
Surely i am not the only one who sees fishing as a negative and harmful sport.




I'm with ya, dude. :wink:


Quote:

Rockhound said:
few life forms are aware of their own mortality.




All life is sacred, the complexity of an organisms make up doesn't make them any less important.


Edited by 1234go (09/21/13 10:12 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: 1234go]
    #18874891 - 09/22/13 07:07 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

1234go said:
Quote:

Rasliam said:
Surely i am not the only one who sees fishing as a negative and harmful sport.




I'm with ya, dude. :wink:


Quote:

Rockhound said:
few life forms are aware of their own mortality.




All life is sacred, the complexity of an organisms make up doesn't make them any less important.




What exactly makes life sacred?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: loco801]
    #18874893 - 09/22/13 07:08 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

loco801 said:
Visited a stream that had close to 50 fish swim up in just the half hour we were there. At three points in the river we saw oil spilling into it and turning into an reddish-orange algae.

I think the people who litter are worse than fisherman.





It's really not about what is worse. That was not the topic and imo you're making excuses for your choices.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisible1234go
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Registered: 07/08/09
Posts: 54,795
Re: Fishing is a cruel sport/hobby, [Re: Icelander]
    #18874913 - 09/22/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
What exactly makes life sacred?




:smile: Mother Earth my friend. The grand all connecting life force that is everything and everyone. Have you not done your homework?

If you're an atheist, then we should just end this here. I'm not here to argue, or shove anything down anyones throat. Just to give my viewpoint on the subject. :sunny:


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