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InvisibleGilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: Burke Dennings]
    #18858783 - 09/18/13 03:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Burke Dennings said:
Quote:

fapjack said:
Its like getting mad at a ref in a football game.  The rules are the thing that is kind of retarded, but without them this place would be like OTD.  Who the fuck wants to post in OTD except for alcoholics that beat their children for not taking out the trash.





:sad:

You should give OTD a chance, some of the most friendly people on the site post there.



Good one Burke what a comedian you are


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OfflinePsilosopherr
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Registered: 02/15/12
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: psi]
    #18858802 - 09/18/13 03:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psi said:
I'm not totally sure but it seems to be the standard for discussing toxicity. LD1 tells you what will kill 1% of the population, so that would give you a better ballpark idea of a minimum lethal dose. LD0.1 would be even better. Reference books like the Merck Index are likely to tell you only the LD50 though, for example XXX mg/Kg body weight in rats, mice or whatever. Lab animal tests don't exactly tell you what it will be in humans but obviously there are ethical problems with giving drugs to humans until they die. Another consideration is the possibility that doses below the lethal threshold will cause other permanent damage to the body.

It's hard to extrapolate from the LD50 in some lab animal what will be a safe dose for an individual to take, which I guess is why people are touchy about discussing it. As far as I knew it wasn't against the rules here though, but I could be wrong.



thats silly that LD50 is standard.

I'd much rather have LD01 and LD100 So I'd know the range of lethal dosage


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Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
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Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,465
Loc: 613 Flag
Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #18858814 - 09/18/13 03:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah I'm not totally sure why that is, maybe someone with more of a biology background can elaborate.


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Offlinefapjack
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Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: Psilosopherr]
    #18858847 - 09/18/13 03:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

rbalzer said:
Quote:

SurReality said:
i also would not ask for lethal doses (LD50) on a forum. if erowid didn't have it, i can understand. but i also don't really know why i would need to know the lethal dose of something considering i don't really push doses that far anyway.



what if it happened to be close to the normal doses, like datura?

why risk it?




The LD50 of datura varies widely as datura is a plant and the concentration of the tropane alkaloids is not a constant.  This is a bad example though, as datura isn't really a recreational drug.  Threads about it sometimes pop up, but people generally don't give dosage information about it.

Also their isn't any LD50 information for humans with any drug, with the exception of Nazi experiments.  They don't kill people, they usually use either rats or monkeys, or mice which doesn't translate into anything definitive for humans.  Its still good information to know though, as you can figure out how safe/risky it is to take a substance.  Also, this is the ONLY drug related message board I have ever posted on with the exception of the growery.  Its almost as lame of a rule as when drug-forums used to make everyone say SWIM.  Actually that rule was a lot more retarded, but still.


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Edited by fapjack (09/18/13 04:03 PM)


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InvisibleCidneyIndole
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Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #18860544 - 09/18/13 09:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
That being said, IMHO that is a separate issue, and I think John was wrong to consider this a request for dosage advice. It was clearly not. Even if you argue that he was asking to get a better idea of dosage, that is still not the same as dosage advice. Learning the maximum you might be able to take (or feed a rat) without death occurring is not sufficient data upon which to base a proper, safe, recreational dosage. Even the most retarded noob in the history of the shroomery should be able to grasp that.


I really don't know what the hell John was thinking on this one. But if I were OP, I'd have been pissed about  it, too.




And if someone had posted that the maximum was 2 grams of whatever, when it's really 1 gram of whatever?

Or perhaps 2 grams max would be good advice for most, but not for the OP.

He asked for dosage advice. John was correct in his action.







Say  this a hundred more times, if you'd like. That won't make it any more true.  If someone had posted the wrong LD50?  As I said-- that wouldn't matter because an LD50 is not dosage advice. That's number one. Any reasonable, intelligent person will dose way, way way the fuck lower than the LD50. Orders of magnitude lower.  And an unreasonable person? They'll take whatever the fuck, regardless of what you say to them.

Second, an LD50 is a scientific measurement, not an opinion, or advice. If it's wrong, it's wrong. But because it is something established by science, and not a matter of opinion, it can be looked up and verified.


Third, even if it was wrong, and someone insufferably stupid decided to use it as a dosage guideline, that's sort of "on them" for making a stupid choice, and stupidly trusting some random member of some internet forum. But again, I really don't think that would happen.



Aside from all that, I generally think an infraction for allegedly asking / giving "dosage advice," because the member supplied or asked for a fact from scientific literature, is essentially twisting / abusing the rules.






Quote:

EdibleStereos said:
I had a posted edited and given a warning because I said 2mg/KG of body weight has been shown in studies to eliminate opiate WD symptoms.






Likewise, I don't think this counts as dosage advice either, if it's citing scientific literature. On the other hand, if you're talking about buprenorphine, that sounds ridiculously high, and I'd love to see the citation for that.



And I think that's another valid part of my point....  While we may have a few dimmer bulbs around here, there are also a lot of knowledgeable people. And if someone posts bullshit, eventually (usually not long) someone will be along to say  "you know what... that doesn't sound right...."


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I am me. We are You.


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Invisiblefee
Im he who is the
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Registered: 01/16/03
Posts: 18,238
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #18860589 - 09/18/13 09:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I have seen way too many of mod dicks since I have joined than any one person ever needs to see.


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blankk said to fee:
btw you're a total fucking psychedelic pimp
Turtletotem said:
I want to become a sun worshipper, so next time an atheist smugly asks me where god is, I can point smugly at the sun and laugh my ass off.

Then I drive away in my solar powered piece of shit car, cool stuff man.

And then I go kill a bitch because the flaming orb in the sky told me to do so, and I don't know, oppress a few minorities here and there in the name of nuclear fusion?

Religion is fun.


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OfflineSurReality
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Registered: 12/21/06
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: CidneyIndole]
    #18860604 - 09/18/13 09:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

yea i agree, its just wrong to declare LD50 discussion as dosage advice. i'd say that the mod probably does have it out for the OP.

i would do my own research on some thing like an LD50, but considering he didn't even know what an LD50 was i can understand him seeking help with his research. I personally like John as a mod, but i have seen him make pretty bad arguments so i'm sure he just didn't really understand what he was doing because after all LD50 is a dosage.


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ProDOPEFiend Diary: (my public diary)

PodCast


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Offlinefapjack
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Registered: 07/26/07
Posts: 16,574
Loc: Central New Jersey
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: SurReality]
    #18860668 - 09/18/13 10:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

LD50 isn't dosage advice.  A mod banned you for talking about the LD50 of a substance?


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!
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Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 17,397
Loc: TURNT UP!
Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: fapjack]
    #18860676 - 09/18/13 10:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I wouldn't doubt it.
Have you witnessed how ineffectual and dense a considerable portion of the moderator staff is?


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OfflineShiVersblood
VAmPiRES HELLA ❤
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Registered: 08/18/07
Posts: 115,627
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Last seen: 4 hours, 32 minutes
Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: something super extreme]
    #18860972 - 09/18/13 11:20 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I'm sick of it too.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,331
Loc: subtropics
Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: ClockCode]
    #18861006 - 09/18/13 11:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ClockCode said:
feetard



LOLOL!!! I laughed out loud! :congrats::rimshot:


(no offense fee, that was funny though)


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Offlinekinkaku
I AM THE LAW!!!!
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1,322
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: tyrannicalrex]
    #18861092 - 09/18/13 11:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

eh:shrug: it could be worse.

we could have nazimods and yithan would be hitler:lmafo:

the pub would be called the shower.

trust me it could be worse :hellyeah:


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OfflineShiVersblood
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Registered: 08/18/07
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: kinkaku]
    #18861159 - 09/19/13 12:22 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I been to a worse forum. Got permabanned. I'm still sore about it. I joined there in 2008 they ban me 2011, for life. The bastards.


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Invisible4runner
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Posts: 15,406
Loc: State of Jefferson
Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: Psilosopherr] * 2
    #18861184 - 09/19/13 12:33 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Stupid ass shit.

Dude asked for maximum dosage that would be fatal.

That is not scientific.

If the guy asked what is the ld50 it would have been fine. That is scientific.

First and foremost the protection of this site must be taken care off.

I say the mod is in the right.

I am curious to find out how many people have actually been mods or admins in any online community that says otherwise.

For those that say mods take sides, or have agendas. Guess what, they do. They are protecting this site, and its users from harm and possible prosecution.

If you had to deal with the same fucking idtiots that awlways push the limits of the rules, you would get lock on to those dumb asses yourselves. Every damn time they posted you would think, oh, you again.

I feel for every mod here and every admin that has to review the BS that trickles up their way from the dumb ass shit theee fucking intitled kids think they have.

A bunch of intitle little cunts around here.

If you think you can find a better community than this that go!
I bet you cant.


Edited by 4runner (09/19/13 12:36 AM)


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Invisible4runner
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Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 15,406
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: 4runner]
    #18861186 - 09/19/13 12:35 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Who has the most problems with the mods?
The ones that don't follow the rules.


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OfflineShiVersblood
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Registered: 08/18/07
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: 4runner]
    #18861187 - 09/19/13 12:35 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Indeed.


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OfflineAmazonianGuru
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: ShiVersblood] * 1
    #18861210 - 09/19/13 12:45 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I dont like prisoner. He is trying to hide from a sad personal life by being on here and he knows it. Beer belly and stuff


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OfflineShiVersblood
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Registered: 08/18/07
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: AmazonianGuru]
    #18861220 - 09/19/13 12:49 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That's hilarious.


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: CidneyIndole] * 3
    #18861407 - 09/19/13 01:57 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CidneyIndole said:

Quote:

Shroomism said:
it's annoying because people die




Actually, I 100% disagree with John's moderator action here.  And I somewhat disagree with shroomism's point as well.  That one is a somewhat separate issue, though, which I'll get back to in a minute.

My real beef with this, is that I think John was WRONG to call this dosage advice!!!

Take a look at the question again.  "Do you know what the lethal dose of suboxone is" (with an additional question about safety.)

This is not the same as saying "How much of this stuff should I take?"  (aka advice)

This is nearly the same as saying "What is the LD50 for suboxone?"  (aka request for scientific data)

And LD50 is scientific data which we ARE allowed to discuss





He didn't ask for LD50. He asked what is a lethal dosage. Which can VARY FROM PERSON TO PERSON.
Any douche bag could come in and say oh, 5 grams.
WHAT'S A "FATAL DOSE" FOR ME, IT MAY TAKE HALF AS MUCH TO KILL SOMEONE ELSE

Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Anyway, since he was clearly asking for a "lethal dosage" (scientific data) and not "recreational dosage" I very much disagree that this should be considered dosage advice and I think it is wrong that he was given an infraction for this.




He was given a warning before, for explicitly asking about suboxone dosage. This was a 2nd offense, for virtually the exact same thing worded differently.


Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
The only way I could see his asking about the "lethal dose" as "dosage advice" is if he made a thread that same day titled "Suicidally depressed-- looking for a way out."  Then, it wouldn't be a massive logical leap to call a question about lethal dosage "looking for dosage advice."  :rolleyes:







Quote:

CidneyIndole said:
Regarding dosage advice in general, I think that responsible, accurate dosage advice by experienced members could be helpful, and in some situations even potentially save lives. It would be better than a noob just guessing, or perhaps misinterpreting erowid's data. For example, thinking they (as an opiate naive person) really want to get a feel for what this oxycodone stuff is all about, so maybe it's best to go with erowid's "heavy" dosage....




Who is to decide who these responsible experienced members are that dish out accurate dosage advice??
And what is to stop ANY troll from posting false information, and what's to stop experienced members from giving inaccurate info because DOSAGES AND TOXICITY LEVELS can vary from person to person, not to even mention tolerance.

Someone who drinks every day may be able to drink a handle of vodka in one sitting, and say no big deal.
Me personally, that would probably kill me.
You cannot responsibly give blanket dosage advice for X toxic drug that will safely apply to every person. It is dumb and irresponsible.
People have and do die from bad dosage advice. We don't want that shit on our hands, period.
Erowid is always there. And has much more accurate and scientific info on dosages than random forum members.

I don't like enforcing such things but they exist for good fucking reasons.


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InvisibleMystiqueMushroom

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 4,737
Loc: PNW
Re: Pretty sick of mods [Re: Shroomism]
    #18861430 - 09/19/13 02:06 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I fucking love you guys, goodnight


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