Home | Community | Message Board

MagicBag Grow Bags
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]
InvisiblePenelope_Tree
Shamanic Panic
 User Gallery


Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 8,535
Loc: magic sugarcastle
Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road
    #18859159 - 09/18/13 04:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Agree or Disagree?

Quote:

we spend way too much time thinking of how we should punish those who commit acts of harm against someone, and not a whole lot of time thinking about how we prevent them through social structures and general community welfare, and what forms of healing the victims need.







Do you think we do an adequate job (as a functioning society) already? If there's room for improvement, what are some areas that need attention?


Personally, I agree with the quote. I've been thinking the imprisonment system is more harmful than beneficial to society. There are numerous studies (none off the top of my head, but have heard of the results) showing that, upon release, man inmates have a very difficult time transitioning back into society and have a high rate of returning back to crime UNLESS they have been given opportunity to sharpen their employable skill set while in prison. It is sad that its possible the majority of those in prison lacked a healthy transition into adulthood, as well as emotional training.



That's sort of broad and out of my scope, really, so I'll just dial it down a few notches and say I think we should teach more emotional education and be more forgiving.


--------------------
full blown human


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,252
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18859341 - 09/18/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I guess it depends on what you mean by adequate. Personally I'd suggest decriminalizing drugs. That would prevent a lot of repeat offenders. As for the rest, I don't think people find it so easy to forgive and there's also the idea that if the crime is bad enough the offender might never see the light of day. That's how it used to work. Barbaric perhaps but it could also be called evolution.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18859513 - 09/18/13 05:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Kill 'Em All

Save the taxpayers some money.



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,891
Last seen: 7 hours, 17 minutes
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Rahz]
    #18859608 - 09/18/13 06:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I think we do OK given the circumstances. Community is a hard concept when there are cities with millions of people and lots of diversity. You either curb the diversity or you give up on overseeing community and let small sub-communities spring up where they may. The nice part of this IMO is that one can find a sub-communnity that serves them best. The downside is traditions get muddy, sense of direction and purpose can suffer, and leadership is less clear in terms of expectations, leaving room for deviations in any direction, regardless of their benefit to the community at large.

While prison may seem broken, its a compromise of the above IMO. Not dictating social affairs opens a pandoras box of sorts. And to keep some semblance of control its necessary to steer the outflow away from certain behaviors through punishment.

Nice title :thumbup:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18859914 - 09/18/13 07:25 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Penelope_Tree said:
Agree or Disagree?

Quote:

we spend way too much time thinking of how we should punish those who commit acts of harm against someone, and not a whole lot of time thinking about how we prevent them through social structures and general community welfare, and what forms of healing the victims need.







Do you think we do an adequate job (as a functioning society) already? If there's room for improvement, what are some areas that need attention?


Personally, I agree with the quote. I've been thinking the imprisonment system is more harmful than beneficial to society. There are numerous studies (none off the top of my head, but have heard of the results) showing that, upon release, man inmates have a very difficult time transitioning back into society and have a high rate of returning back to crime UNLESS they have been given opportunity to sharpen their employable skill set while in prison. It is sad that its possible the majority of those in prison lacked a healthy transition into adulthood, as well as emotional training.



That's sort of broad and out of my scope, really, so I'll just dial it down a few notches and say I think we should teach more emotional education and be more forgiving.





We should?  What's the point of saying we should do anything?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*
Other

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan Flag
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Icelander]
    #18859999 - 09/18/13 07:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Simply providing a comfortable life for those at the lowest points in society would do amazing things for improving its health. Without the stress and the poor choices it leads people crime rates would drop off considerably, those unfavorable subcultures like prostitution and gangs would take a heavy blow once you eliminate the impoverished people they often prey on.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Kickle]
    #18860120 - 09/18/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kickle said:
I think we do OK given the circumstances. Community is a hard concept when there are cities with millions of people and lots of diversity. You either curb the diversity or you give up on overseeing community and let small sub-communities spring up where they may. The nice part of this IMO is that one can find a sub-communnity that serves them best. The downside is traditions get muddy, sense of direction and purpose can suffer, and leadership is less clear in terms of expectations, leaving room for deviations in any direction, regardless of their benefit to the community at large.

While prison may seem broken, its a compromise of the above IMO. Not dictating social affairs opens a pandoras box of sorts. And to keep some semblance of control its necessary to steer the outflow away from certain behaviors through punishment.

Nice title :thumbup:




When two liberals agree, it's just like floating in a cloud of fluffy cotton candy.

Yummy!


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*
Other

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan Flag
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #18860153 - 09/18/13 08:23 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

When most of them agree, things actually get done.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKickleM
Wanderer
 User Gallery

Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,891
Last seen: 7 hours, 17 minutes
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #18860227 - 09/18/13 08:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

Kickle said:
I think we do OK given the circumstances. Community is a hard concept when there are cities with millions of people and lots of diversity. You either curb the diversity or you give up on overseeing community and let small sub-communities spring up where they may. The nice part of this IMO is that one can find a sub-communnity that serves them best. The downside is traditions get muddy, sense of direction and purpose can suffer, and leadership is less clear in terms of expectations, leaving room for deviations in any direction, regardless of their benefit to the community at large.

While prison may seem broken, its a compromise of the above IMO. Not dictating social affairs opens a pandoras box of sorts. And to keep some semblance of control its necessary to steer the outflow away from certain behaviors through punishment.

Nice title :thumbup:




When two liberals agree, it's just like floating in a cloud of fluffy cotton candy.

Yummy!




Where to? :tardpig:


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #18860299 - 09/18/13 09:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Bodhi of Ankou said:
Simply providing a comfortable life for those at the lowest points in society would do amazing things for improving its health. Without the stress and the poor choices it leads people crime rates would drop off considerably, those unfavorable subcultures like prostitution and gangs would take a heavy blow once you eliminate the impoverished people they often prey on.



:lol: Hardly.  It's been tried.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*
Other

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan Flag
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Icelander]
    #18860380 - 09/18/13 09:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

When and where?


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #18861733 - 09/19/13 06:24 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It's called welfare and socialism.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*
Other

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan Flag
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Icelander]
    #18861976 - 09/19/13 08:34 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Nope, its called a guaranteed annual income and its worked quite well when it was implemented. Drops in healthcare costs covered most of it, people who made use of it only rose marginally,everyone was happier. IT worked out pretty well, probably why it was trashed so quickly.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #18862019 - 09/19/13 08:52 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That's not worked.  Where's your proof that everyone was happier?  Nature will never support that kind of thing ultimately imo. The species weakens  (which is happening imo) and eventually goes kaput which will also happen imo.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleCyclohexylamine
Turn on, Tune in, Drop out
 User Gallery

Registered: 09/08/10
Posts: 14,327
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18862878 - 09/19/13 12:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Penelope_Tree said:
Agree or Disagree?

Quote:

we spend way too much time thinking of how we should punish those who commit acts of harm against someone, and not a whole lot of time thinking about how we prevent them through social structures and general community welfare, and what forms of healing the victims need.







Do you think we do an adequate job (as a functioning society) already? If there's room for improvement, what are some areas that need attention?


Personally, I agree with the quote. I've been thinking the imprisonment system is more harmful than beneficial to society. There are numerous studies (none off the top of my head, but have heard of the results) showing that, upon release, man inmates have a very difficult time transitioning back into society and have a high rate of returning back to crime UNLESS they have been given opportunity to sharpen their employable skill set while in prison. It is sad that its possible the majority of those in prison lacked a healthy transition into adulthood, as well as emotional training.



That's sort of broad and out of my scope, really, so I'll just dial it down a few notches and say I think we should teach more emotional education and be more forgiving.




I agree with the quote, and numerous studies seem to agree with it too..


--------------------
:brainondrugs:

You are not special :haha:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleBodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*
Other

Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan Flag
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Icelander]
    #18863752 - 09/19/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That's not worked.  Where's your proof that everyone was happier?  Nature will never support that kind of thing ultimately imo. The species weakens  (which is happening imo) and eventually goes kaput which will also happen imo.




Everyone is obviously a generalization, but overall everyone who made use of the service had an improved quality of life. Attendance went up, illness's dropped, which was mainly attributed to a huge reduction in stress. Iirc crime rates also dropped significantly. IMO we will eventually make the shift, our production continues to skyrocket and jobs continue to be simply outdated or replaced by automated or robotic process's. There really isnt any need for everyone to hold a job down, and sticking to that mentality will set us back.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
    #18866673 - 09/20/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I think you're dreaming. :shrug:  Who decides who gets the jobs and who gets the free ride?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student


Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Penelope_Tree]
    #18867269 - 09/20/13 11:31 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Penelope_Tree said:
I think we should teach more emotional education and be more forgiving.




I have said this for a long, long time. The current schooling system is so lacking in this respect (here in the UK at least, but I imagine in the whole western world) and seems only fit for pumping out worker drones rather than well rounded and fully functional human beings.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery

Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #18867301 - 09/20/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

Penelope_Tree said:
I think we should teach more emotional education and be more forgiving.




I have said this for a long, long time. The current schooling system is so lacking in this respect (here in the UK at least, but I imagine in the whole western world) and seems only fit for pumping out worker drones rather than well rounded and fully functional human beings.




Considering school is like prison, and other than the control and babysitting aspect so mom and dad can both work, it's all about teaching someone to be able to sit 8 hours a day at some boring ass desk job.  And think life is great, just hope they can pay off their massive student loans.  But they are "just" student loans until their wages "just" got garnished.

LOL.


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student


Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Reward, Punishment, & Where the Rubber Meets the Road [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #18867409 - 09/20/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

Penelope_Tree said:
I think we should teach more emotional education and be more forgiving.




I have said this for a long, long time. The current schooling system is so lacking in this respect (here in the UK at least, but I imagine in the whole western world) and seems only fit for pumping out worker drones rather than well rounded and fully functional human beings.




Considering school is like prison, and other than the control and babysitting aspect so mom and dad can both work, it's all about teaching someone to be able to sit 8 hours a day at some boring ass desk job.  And think life is great, just hope they can pay off their massive student loans.  But they are "just" student loans until their wages "just" got garnished.

LOL.




I fully appreciate that this is how it is in the mainstream, but are there not moves being made right now in the direction of social-emotional learning in schools? I, for one, will do anything in my power to prevent my children from going to the type of school you mention above.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | Next >  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* Meet Satan
( 1 2 3 4 5 6 all )
Psilocybeingzz 7,378 112 02/14/05 08:47 PM
by VistaRon
* the middle of the road....
( 1 2 3 all )
Huehuecoyotl 2,656 44 05/02/05 07:49 PM
by Huehuecoyotl
* Enslaved by Mind. A meeting with myself. puwtrip 1,082 7 05/17/05 11:46 AM
by Jalruza
* Independent Truth- a road to greater empowerment and freedom
( 1 2 all )
gettinjiggywithit 2,974 25 09/04/04 06:59 AM
by Simisu
* Fork in the road of my life franco_on 1,539 17 01/07/05 03:02 PM
by Huehuecoyotl
* capital "punishment" OldWoodSpecter 928 13 06/15/05 07:32 PM
by Icelander
* my meeting with the SALVIA spirit, anyone else experienced this? pothead420 1,855 18 12/27/04 05:10 PM
by leafing
* Should criminals be punished? HagbardCeline 823 10 05/13/03 04:27 PM
by Malachi

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
1,851 topic views. 1 members, 9 guests and 4 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.004 seconds on 14 queries.