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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: Enlil]
    #18858521 - 09/18/13 02:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I'm sure there were a few nice offices in Auschwitz, too...That doesn't mean I'd like to be sent there.




There's a difference between being sent and going of your own volition.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Invisiblethe mad machinest
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18858526 - 09/18/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
IMO, not being able to go to Canada is one of the only good parts about having a criminal record.




Now now, there are some nice places in Canada.



too bad I have a DUI so I guess that means I'm such a morbid criminal that I'm not allowed to contaminate precious Canada.:unwanted:


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:hummer:

:trees::trees:

:aweyeah::trippinbawelz::awecid:
.         



         
             
             
                                              :redneck::tentjump:                         :hole:


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: the mad machinest] * 1
    #18858527 - 09/18/13 02:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

the mad machinest said:
well fuxk Canada! I didn't wanna visit y'all any wayz!




Sounds like someone has a criminal record.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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Offlineganjfather
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: Enlil]
    #18858529 - 09/18/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
3. When you steal from Wal-Mart, you make it cost more for them to operate, so they have even less to pay employees.





Stealing does not make it cost more to operate, it lowers the profit that the corporation makes. If walmart loses $500 in merchandise, their employees will not get paid any less then they are already making, which is minimum wage.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18858532 - 09/18/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I think they actually call that depraved indifference homicide.




Not so much.  You have no duty to rescue someone from imminent death, even if it would be super safe and easy for you to do so.

The only exceptions are when you created the hazard or if you have a special relationship with the person in peril.


--------------------
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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: Enlil]
    #18858533 - 09/18/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

well well--looky there---you being the snake you are I still very much respect your opinion----you shouldn't deter me though---bad business and all


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: NetDiver]
    #18858543 - 09/18/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

MisterMuscaria said:
I am extremely anti-shoplifting.

I dont care how evil the person is being stolen from.
The principle is not sinking to their level.



It would be impossible for any individual shoplifter to sink to Wal-Mart's level.




They couldn't rise to Wal-Mart's level.
Quote:



That is, unless they enslaved hundreds of poor, starving children first.




Wal-Mart doesn't enslave anyone
Quote:



Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
It doesn't matter what the odds are. You don't know the consequences of your actions. It's not your choice to make.



If that's true, then nobody should ever try to do anything for anybody. Hell, if you tried to help an old woman crossing the street you might trip and accidentally push her into oncoming traffic. You probably won't (just as the person who develops the vaccine probably won't be in the group that is killed), but since the possibility exists, it's not your decision to make.




What part of "not your choice to make" is difficult for you?
http://news.walmart.com/news-archive/2011/04/06/walmart-increases-global-giving-in-last-fiscal-year-companys-us-foundation-continues-to-take-a-leadership-role-fighting-hunger

Quote:

Overall, Walmart and the Walmart Foundation’s giving in FYE11 includes:

    $732 million in cash and in-kind gifts in the U.S., up from $467 million in fiscal year ending 2010;
    $66.8 million in cash and in-kind gifts in international markets, up from $45 million in fiscal year ending 2010;
    $114 million from Walmart’s customers and associates through in-store giving programs that benefit local charities; and
    $913 million in total charitable contributions from Walmart, its Foundations, its customers and its associates around the globe in fiscal year ending 2011.

Last May, Walmart announced a historic $2 billion commitment of cash and in-kind gifts to hunger relief organizations in the U.S. through 2015. The company is making good on its pledge, giving 256 million pounds of food to local food banks in the last fiscal year, the equivalent to 197 million meals. The retailer and its Foundation also gave $62 million in grants to U.S. hunger nonprofits.




And you have given what?


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InvisibleClockCode
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Registered: 11/12/12
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: NetDiver]
    #18858545 - 09/18/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

As a note, I did post a rebuttal statement to your dismissal of Kant's philosophy regarding this.  It seems to have been lost in the shuffle.  Your response to Muscaria made it relevant again tho.

All you say to the axe murderer is "no Im protecting him and can't let you in."

By stealing from wal-mart not only do you violate the first principle of universality but also deny the rationality of walmart's actions regarding what they deem fit.

Don't get me wrong, I hate walmart.  But for once zappa is right, simply denying them patronage is the morally upright path here.  IMO, at least.


--------------------
Psilovibing


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: NetDiver]
    #18858546 - 09/18/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
If that's true, then nobody should ever try to do anything for anybody. Hell, if you tried to help an old woman crossing the street you might trip and accidentally push her into oncoming traffic. You probably won't (just as the person who develops the vaccine probably won't be in the group that is killed), but since the possibility exists, it's not your decision to make.




WTF? Now you're trying to equate helping someone with killing someone?

It's the old womans choice to accept the help or not. Are you going to give a choice to the 10 poor humans you'd kill to save the others?


--------------------
You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: ganjfather]
    #18858548 - 09/18/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

ganjfather said:
Quote:

Enlil said:
3. When you steal from Wal-Mart, you make it cost more for them to operate, so they have even less to pay employees.





Stealing does not make it cost more to operate, it lowers the profit that the corporation makes. If walmart loses $500 in merchandise, their employees will not get paid any less then they are already making, which is minimum wage.



Wrong on both.

1. Stealing means that walmart purchases items that don't get sold, this is an increase in cost to operate.
2. Wal-Mart doesn't pay minimum wage.


--------------------
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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: Enlil]
    #18858549 - 09/18/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I think they actually call that depraved indifference homicide.




Not so much.  You have no duty to rescue someone from imminent death, even if it would be super safe and easy for you to do so.

The only exceptions are when you created the hazard or if you have a special relationship with the person in peril.



I'm not entirely sure that is true in all states.


--------------------


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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: the mad machinest]
    #18858557 - 09/18/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

the mad machinest said:
Quote:

azur said:
http://www.mich-lawyer.com/helpful-links/entry-into-canada

Paragraph 4



felonies only, I doubt one could steal enough shit at one time from Walmart to be a felony charge.



WRONG--when u walk out with more than $500 it turns to grand larceny= felony


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18858564 - 09/18/13 03:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
I'm not entirely sure that is true in all states.



Luckily, you don't have to be.  I, on the other hand, am entirely sure that it's true in every state in the U.S.

Even when one of the two exceptions apply, it's not depraved heart homicide.  It's only a civil liability.

You might be thinking of the poorly named "good Samaritan laws."  They don't make it homicide, but there is a misdemeanor for failure to seek aid in certain conditions.  Nonetheless, these laws aren't enforced, and it's widely presumed that they're unconstitutional anyway.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: Enlil]
    #18858586 - 09/18/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

OK


--------------------


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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: Enlil]
    #18858587 - 09/18/13 03:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

could you explain to me the ramifications that would happen to me if I got caught--like sentencing and such-----and how bad did ellis dee and Listerine get lit up for saying STUPID shit like that---that was some evil shit to say


--------------------
******


Edited by Mr. Wilson (09/18/13 03:07 PM)


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Offlines240779
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
    #18858589 - 09/18/13 03:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

How does one effectively steal anyway? I've stolen plenty of little things from supermarkets and stuff (and I stopped) but I can only imagine the only reason I got away with it is because no one was actually looking at the monitors.


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OfflineNetDiver
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #18858611 - 09/18/13 03:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

luvdemshrooms said:
WTF? Now you're trying to equate helping someone with killing someone?



The analogy isn't perfect, but understand the point I'm making: In no circumstances do you have any certainty that your actions will produce the expected outcomes. Any moral action at all, by anyone is playing the odds to an extent.

In our imaginary hypothetical situation, I would argue that, since you have full knowledge of the choice you are making, choosing to not kill the ten would, morally, be directly equivalent to killing the other 1,000, just as if you had pulled the trigger yourself. The decision rests on your shoulders: not if you should kill, but who you should kill. It's not fair and it's not a decision anyone should have to make, but sometimes people really do have to make difficult choices.

Quote:

It's the old womans choice to accept the help or not. Are you going to give a choice to the 10 poor humans you'd kill to save the others?



Since one of the groups of people would have to die, I'd put it to a vote.


--------------------


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OfflineMr. Wilson
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: s240779]
    #18858615 - 09/18/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

ya gots to be fast and get it in your head that you are doing nothing wrong---half of that is damn right--the other im starting to doubt


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: NetDiver]
    #18858619 - 09/18/13 03:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:

It's the old womans choice to accept the help or not. Are you going to give a choice to the 10 poor humans you'd kill to save the others?



Since one of the groups of people would have to die, I'd put it to a vote.




Oooh, like in the Dark Knight!


--------------------
I have pneumonia :pm:



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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
    #18858624 - 09/18/13 03:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mr. Wilson said:
could you explain to me the ramifications that would happen to me if I got caught--like sentencing and such-----and how bad did ellis dee and Listerine get lit up for saying STUPID shit like that---that was some evil shit to say



I can tell you this:  I tried to steal a pump from Home depot and got caught.  Consequences:

1. 2 years probation
2. $800 in fines
3. $600 for expungement
4. It delayed my admission to the bar for over 2 years AFTER passing the exam.

That's 2 years of lawyer pay I didn't get because of it.  Your mileage may vary, but getting caught will almost certainly reduce your employability.


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