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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Are opiates like heroin actually harmless?
    #18858585 - 09/18/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I am watching this interesting documentary on heroin. Perhaps the most interesting thing is the statement at 5:18

"opiates properly used and administered do not damage the minds or bodies of their users".

What do you guys think of this documentary and in particular this claim that opiates are actually very safe if used "properly"?



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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #18858597 - 09/18/13 03:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It has long been my understanding that the only deleterious effect of heroin addiction, other than the addiction part and given a safe supply and safe delivery, is chronic constipation.  Ask William Buurroughs.


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Offlinedanlennon3
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #18858622 - 09/18/13 03:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

"properly used and administered" pretty much means they are used for a short period of time and prescribed by a doctor. But you cant always trust the doctor because some give them out for too long, which can cause a dependency problem. So to answer your question... Yes... but no


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: danlennon3]
    #18858636 - 09/18/13 03:13 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Its really an interesting documentary, they are basically saying pure heroin is basically harmless.


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Offlinecgsjames
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18858638 - 09/18/13 03:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Excluding the addiction potential, tolerance and overdose .. Sounds like the perfect drug.


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OfflineKremrBigSikter
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: danlennon3]
    #18858643 - 09/18/13 03:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What about diet and exercise? Is it possible to (ab)use opiates habitually without eventually turning into an atrophied hollow creature?


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: danlennon3]
    #18858657 - 09/18/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

danlennon3 said:
"properly used and administered" pretty much means they are used for a short period of time and prescribed by a doctor. But you cant always trust the doctor because some give them out for too long, which can cause a dependency problem. So to answer your question... Yes... but no



No, I believe you can have a lifelong heroin addiction that has no deleterious health effects except addiction and constipation.  You better be fucking rich as hell, though.


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Offlinepcplease
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18858687 - 09/18/13 03:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

They active pain receptors that were previously dormant, leading to your body being able to feel more pain IIRC.

And I think this is only an issue with chronic use.
But there are a lot of people with chronic diseases/pain issues that DO take them as prescribed for years. I assume that when/if they decide to come off them, they'll have a tough time readjusting. I also assume that the brain would correct itself and be able to turn off the newly activated receptors, but who knows how long that takes? I'm sure it varies from person to person.

But they aren't toxic AFAIK.


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InvisibleMidnight_Toker
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #18858723 - 09/18/13 03:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Physically, opiates are quite harmless when ingested at safe dosages.  It's when you get into using needles and pushing the envelope with doses to get higher and higher that you end up having problems.  They are still pretty benign at high doses, it's the unsafe/unsanitary use of needles, and respiratory depression from very high doses that are the real killers.

All in all, if you have to be addicted to a drug other than weed, opiates are the least damaging to your body.

Opiates really shine in the psychological damage department though.  In my opinion they're on par with just about any drug you can think of for the amount of mental anguish that opiate addiction puts a person through.


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Offlines240779
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #18858729 - 09/18/13 03:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I've always known this about opiates. Unlike cocaine, a relatively similar drug, opiates give the body its own energy; cocaine jives the brain into releasing extra high amounts of certain brain chemicals, which exhausts the brain.

However, opiates cause a significant constipation problem, and that is bad for you. Theoretically if you use opiates and own a colon hydrotherapy machine and use it frequently, opiates are completely harmless.


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InvisibleEdibleStereos
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: s240779]
    #18858785 - 09/18/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'd say much of the negative health consequences comes from the lifestyle, not eating properly, poor hygiene, shooting bad dope, reusing needles.

The nutrition aspect is huge for many drug addictions, once you deprive your body of its proper fuel it goes down hill quick.


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Invisiblemr sniffles
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: EdibleStereos]
    #18858801 - 09/18/13 03:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

how much would you say is too much opiates? every weekend?


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: EdibleStereos]
    #18858822 - 09/18/13 03:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

physically or mentally


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InvisibleSheekle
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: mr sniffles]
    #18858831 - 09/18/13 03:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

k3nnyw said:
how much would you say is too much opiates? every weekend?



ever


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Invisiblemr sniffles
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #18858850 - 09/18/13 03:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

NotTheDevil said:
physically or mentally



mentally, in terms of addiction


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: mr sniffles]
    #18858903 - 09/18/13 04:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Its really an interesting documentary, they are basically saying pure heroin is basically harmless.






I don't look at any drug as being inherently harmful or harmless. It's just a "thing"....It's a persons relationship with a drug that's harmful or harmless :shrug: , not the drug itself.


Sure, when it comes to opiates lots of people can't keep their intake in check and let them selves fall into addiction. But plenty of people dabble with opiates, and other things people deem "dangerous and addictive", with out a problem.






Quote:

k3nnyw said:
how much would you say is too much opiates? every weekend?




What ever works for you :shrug: .


My rule of thumb with opiates....when one starts taking more than they did the previous day/time, trying to keep that high up, chasing that high...that's when it's time to take a break, or question yourself if you should be dabbling with them at all.

I can dabble with opiates for several days to a week or so, taking the same dose every day and pretty much getting to the same level of being high. But once I notice myself having to take more to get to the same level I was at a day or two before, I stop for at least a few weeks.


It's when people start taking more and more from tolerance, trying to get as high as they were previously, that's when shit goes down hill for people IMO.





-OM


.


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OfflineNotTheDevil
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Sheekle]
    #18858909 - 09/18/13 04:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Depends on you but most would say thats to much


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InvisibleMagicman69
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: NotTheDevil]
    #18858971 - 09/18/13 04:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Opiates aren't harmful to your brain like say repeated MDMA or Meth use, however the physical dependance which they bring is severe. The constant withdrawal which most illicit opiate users face on a daily basis can't be good for you either.


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OfflineSeriously_trippin
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: danlennon3]
    #18859118 - 09/18/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

danlennon3 said:
"properly used and administered" pretty much means they are used for a short period of time and prescribed by a doctor. But you cant always trust the doctor because some give them out for too long, which can cause a dependency problem. So to answer your question... Yes... but no



This^ sure some people use there pain meds for a short amount of time FOR pain, however a lot of people just continue to get scripts from there doc and end up taking it recreationally.

Personally I think heroin is just as addictive as high mg oxycontin or diluadids can be.


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OfflinePatlal
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #18859135 - 09/18/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

"opiates properly used and administered do not damage the minds or bodies of their users".


When the hell have opiates ever been used properly?


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Edited by Patlal (09/18/13 04:49 PM)


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OfflineSnotfish
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #18859140 - 09/18/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I agree with them not being dangerous unless improperly used, which basically comes with the opiate habit.

If you were to have CLEAN heroin properly injected with a sterilized needle at a safe amount, no damage would come, in my opinion.

Being a heroin addict though, means using dirty needles, using too large of doses, using way to frequently, and using heroin that has been cut with whatever the distributor feels like.


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InvisibleMagicman69
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Snotfish]
    #18859150 - 09/18/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I have yet to meet a recreational heroin user. I'm not saying they aren't out there, I've just never encountered one.


Edited by Magicman69 (09/18/13 04:51 PM)


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InvisiblehTx
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Magicman69]
    #18859173 - 09/18/13 04:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

They are pretty harmful, imo, I was on black tar heroin for a good two months, IVing everyday.

Lost about 10 lbs, many friendships, and felt at times a piece of my soul.

It will change your personality for the worst.

You will get physically addicted and will have to go through life-threatening withdrawals if you choose to stop.

Harmless?

Ridiculous notion.


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Offlines240779
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: hTx]
    #18859182 - 09/18/13 04:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well, he means does it directly damage or at least stress the brain/body and it does not. Some drugs do.


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InvisibleMagicman69
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: s240779]
    #18859212 - 09/18/13 05:04 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Opiate withdrawal is never life threatening in somewhat healthy individuals. Benzo or Alcohol withdrawal is life threatening, not heroin. It doesn't matter how big your habit is, if you go to jail where I'm at. Your going to kick cold turkey. If its Benzos or ALC they give anti seizure medications.


Edited by Magicman69 (09/18/13 05:05 PM)


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #18859218 - 09/18/13 05:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It has long been my understanding that the only deleterious effect of heroin addiction, other than the addiction part and given a safe supply and safe delivery, is chronic constipation.  Ask William Buurroughs.




God yes, this. You'll shit brown bowling balls on opiates.


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Patlal]
    #18859219 - 09/18/13 05:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Patlal said:
"opiates properly used and administered do not damage the minds or bodies of their users".


When the hell have opiates ever been used properly?




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InvisibleMagicman69
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: something super extreme]
    #18859225 - 09/18/13 05:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sVs said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:
It has long been my understanding that the only deleterious effect of heroin addiction, other than the addiction part and given a safe supply and safe delivery, is chronic constipation.  Ask William Buurroughs.




God yes, this. You'll shit brown bowling balls on opiates.



:lol: It's like having a baby! My EX Girlfriend was crying one time sitting on the toilet. Awful memories


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Invisiblemr sniffles
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Magicman69]
    #18859351 - 09/18/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

edited


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Edited by mr sniffles (09/18/13 05:33 PM)


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Moonshoe]
    #18859409 - 09/18/13 05:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:

"opiates properly used and administered do not damage the minds or bodies of their users".





I have to disagree. If you continuously use opiates you will need more and more of them until they stop working properly. The only thing stalling that outcome is by periodically depriving yourself to lower tolerance a bit. If you have strong opiate tolerance nondrug activities become less reenforcing, thus less rewarding to you which leads to reprioritizing your life around opiates. Being high on opiates your judgement and memory are impaired and your body needs those great amounts of opiates to stave off severe dopesickness. Most people cant stay high for life on opiates, either it stops working properly, somnething in their body or mind gives out or it interferes with their life to the point of having to quit. Once quit off a habit of several years many find they will NEVER feel truly good again when sober.

All of this is harm.


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OfflineSnotfish
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Asante]
    #18859425 - 09/18/13 05:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Wiccan_Seeker said:
Quote:

Moonshoe said:

"opiates properly used and administered do not damage the minds or bodies of their users".





I have to disagree. If you continuously use opiates you will need more and more of them until they stop working properly. The only thing stalling that outcome is by periodically depriving yourself to lower tolerance a bit. If you have strong opiate tolerance nondrug activities become less reenforcing, thus less rewarding to you which leads to reprioritizing your life around opiates. Being high on opiates your judgement and memory are impaired and your body needs those great amounts of opiates to stave off severe dopesickness. Most people cant stay high for life on opiates, either it stops working properly, somnething in their body or mind gives out or it interferes with their life to the point of having to quit. Once quit off a habit of several years many find they will NEVER feel truly good again when sober.

All of this is harm.




This is completely revolving around an addiction. Of course, addiction is detrimental but I think the questions is in terms of it being applied and the physical effects it would have on the brain/body. Not it being applied over and over.. and over again.


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Are opiates like heroin actually harmless? [Re: Asante]
    #18859440 - 09/18/13 05:47 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not sure in what context that quote is meant to be understood. Obviously administered properly, in a medical environment, opiates are perfectly safe barring obvious things like synergistic CNS depressants being administered simultaneously and opioid allergy, both of which would be a result of human error.

When recreational use comes into the picture, prolonged use is inevitably subject to diminishing returns and will become harmful if left uncontrolled.


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