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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: zappaisgod]
#18858388 - 09/18/13 02:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
KremrBigSikter said: Well, I'm of the belief that it's the act of murder that makes someone a murderer. Call me old fashioned.
So, if you were to come upon someone dangling from a cliff, begging to be pulled up before their grip strength gave out, and you watched as they fell, then you wouldn't consider yourself a murderer?
I would call that murder.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Oh so you get to decide what is the proper charity.
Let me guess. Your charitable giving amounts to 3 figures at most.
You're deliving into ad-hominem again here with the second part, but with the first -- of course, as the one advocating for certain ethical actions, I get to specify which charities I think deserve the benefit. We're talking about ethics here, so we're talking about opinion. In my opinion, stealing from Wal-Mart and giving to certain charities which work towards the good of humanity would be an ethical action.
Quote:
Wal-Mart provides an extremely valuable service in that it provides the lowest prices for goods. Their profit margin is shit and poor people are the greatest beneficiaries of their existence. You're fake moralizing is inept and bankrupt.
Do you really think Wal-Mart's profit margins are shit? They are one of the most, if not THE most, profitable companies in the world. Most of their goods are made by people overseas in third world countries, many of them working in sweatshops. They buy off local mafia and police to prevent interference from the governments as well. The beneficiaries of their existence are *some* of the American poor, comparatively wealthy citizens of a first world country who probably wouldn't even be poor by American standards, if not for massive companies like Wal-Mart making it nearly impossible to make a living as a small business owner/entrepreneur, and not paying livable wages to their employees.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: NetDiver] 1
#18858402 - 09/18/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
Edited by luvdemshrooms (09/18/13 02:31 PM)
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Mr. Wilson
experienced weiner rubber



Registered: 12/19/11
Posts: 1,977
Loc: Weinerville,
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: NetDiver]
#18858408 - 09/18/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I like you---give em hell
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*** ***
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ClockCode
A Lonely Hypha


Registered: 11/12/12
Posts: 546
Loc: The Highest Desert
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: NetDiver]
#18858409 - 09/18/13 02:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
KremrBigSikter said: Well, I'm of the belief that it's the act of murder that makes someone a murderer. Call me old fashioned.
So, if you were to come upon someone dangling from a cliff, begging to be pulled up before their grip strength gave out, and you watched as they fell, then you wouldn't consider yourself a murderer?
I would call that murder.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Oh so you get to decide what is the proper charity.
Let me guess. Your charitable giving amounts to 3 figures at most.
You're deliving into ad-hominem again here with the second part, but with the first -- of course, as the one advocating for certain ethical actions, I get to specify which charities I think deserve the benefit.
Quote:
Wal-Mart provides an extremely valuable service in that it provides the lowest prices for goods. Their profit margin is shit and poor people are the greatest beneficiaries of their existence. You're fake moralizing is inept and bankrupt.
Do you really think Wal-Mart's profit margins are shit? They are one of the most, if not THE most, profitable countries in the world. Most of their goods is made by people overseas in third world countries, many of them working in sweatshops. They buy off local mafia and police to prevent interference from the governments as well. The beneficiaries of their existence are *some* of the American poor, comparatively wealthy citizens of a first world country who probably wouldn't even be poor by American standards, if not for massive companies like Wal-Mart making it nearly impossible to make a living as a small business owner/entrepreneur, and not paying livable wages to their employees.
 I pledge allegiance to King Mike Duke!
-------------------- Psilovibing
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: ClockCode]
#18858422 - 09/18/13 02:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Hahaha, goddammit. Fixed.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,985
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: Mr. Wilson] 2
#18858442 - 09/18/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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1. You'll get caught eventually and end up with a petty theft charge. 2. Wal-Mart is a publicly traded company. When you steal from them, you're ultimately stealing from pretty much everyone who has a 401(k)...that means lots of grandmothers 3. When you steal from Wal-Mart, you make it cost more for them to operate, so they have even less to pay employees.
You're a part of the problem, dude. Just admit that you steal because you like free shit. You're no folk hero.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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azur
God of Fuck


Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#18858444 - 09/18/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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KremrBigSikter
Spränger Språnger




Registered: 07/23/11
Posts: 3,918
Last seen: 8 years, 3 months
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: NetDiver]
#18858452 - 09/18/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
KremrBigSikter said: Well, I'm of the belief that it's the act of murder that makes someone a murderer. Call me old fashioned.
So, if you were to come upon someone dangling from a cliff, begging to be pulled up before their grip strength gave out, and you watched as they fell, then you wouldn't consider yourself a murderer?
No. It's morally reprehensible, of course, (tho I'm sure you could find someone on this board who'd argue that it's none of their problem) but not murder. You didn't cause that person to die, and if you hadn't been there that person would have died anyway. If you can save someone's life, you should try, I obviously agree with that. I don't believe in taking another person's life, however. We've all see the question about the runaway train and the fat guy on the overpass. I wouldn't kill him even if he's fat and disgusting. But that's me.
-------------------- I have pneumonia
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NotTheDevil
Transhuman


Registered: 01/08/13
Posts: 5,436
Loc: US
Last seen: 3 years, 2 months
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: Nimpo]
#18858460 - 09/18/13 02:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
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NotTheDevil said: If you kill 10 people to save 1000 does that make killing 10 people right?
In that case, yes it does.
There's no such thing as a perfect world. Every decision has positive and negative consequences. "Right" is the best decision you can make under the circumstances. 
You missed the point of the question, the point is that doing something wrong in the name of something right does not make the bad deed less bad, it simply adds a second deed which is good.
Quote:
Is a poor man stealing a few cans of food from Walmart to feed his starving family "bad stealing?" If someone without health insurance manages to steal a bottle of antibiotics to treat a family member and cure them of a potentially life threatening infection "bad" or "good" stealing? Big pharma companies wont be taking a hit
You know that’s not the kind of shoplifting were talking about, stealing to survive and stealing for fun and profit are not the same thing.
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the mad machinest
Medicine Man



Registered: 04/18/13
Posts: 4,249
Loc: parallel universe #420
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: azur]
#18858467 - 09/18/13 02:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: http://www.mich-lawyer.com/helpful-links/entry-into-canada
Paragraph 4
felonies only, I doubt one could steal enough shit at one time from Walmart to be a felony charge.
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#18858475 - 09/18/13 02:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: If we want to get away from the knowledge that thieves are scumbags...
What if 1 of the 10 that you kill would have gone on to develop a vaccine that prevented the next flu pandemic? Not killing him could save millions.
It's not your choice to make.
Okay, but no one can ever know all the possible consequences of their decisions. We're playing the odds every time we try to do anything right.
And, odds are that if someone is going to develop a vaccine that prevents the next flu pandemic, they'll be in the group of 1000 and not the group of 10.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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It doesn't say felonies only. It merely elaborates that DWI in Canada is a felony.
Quote:
Almost all convictions (including DUI, DWI, reckless driving, negligent driving, misdemeanor drug possession, all felonies, domestic violence (assault IV), shoplifting, theft, etc) can make a person inadmissible to Canada, regardless of when they occurred.
from another source:
Quote:
An individual can be considered inadmissible to Canada for a either a felony or a misdemeanor offense (known as an indictable or summary offense, respectively, in Canada). However, many tourists, especially those from visa-exempt countries such as the United States, are not aware that even a long-forgotten misdemeanor offense such as a DUI will hinder their entry to Canada.
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-eases-entry-rules-for-visitors-with-minor-convictions.html
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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MisterMuscaria



Registered: 05/13/08
Posts: 27,646
Loc:
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: Mr. Wilson]
#18858494 - 09/18/13 02:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I am extremely anti-shoplifting.
I dont care how evil the person is being stolen from. The principle is not sinking to their level.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: NetDiver]
#18858500 - 09/18/13 02:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: If we want to get away from the knowledge that thieves are scumbags...
What if 1 of the 10 that you kill would have gone on to develop a vaccine that prevented the next flu pandemic? Not killing him could save millions.
It's not your choice to make.
Okay, but no one can ever know all the possible consequences of their decisions. We're playing the odds every time we try to do anything right.
And, odds are that if someone is going to develop a vaccine that prevents the next flu pandemic, they'll be in the group of 1000 and not the group of 10.
It doesn't matter what the odds are. You don't know the consequences of your actions. It's not your choice to make.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,985
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#18858501 - 09/18/13 02:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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IMO, not being able to go to Canada is one of the only good parts about having a criminal record.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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the mad machinest
Medicine Man



Registered: 04/18/13
Posts: 4,249
Loc: parallel universe #420
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#18858503 - 09/18/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: It doesn't say felonies only. It merely elaborates that DWI in Canada is a felony.
Quote:
Almost all convictions (including DUI, DWI, reckless driving, negligent driving, misdemeanor drug possession, all felonies, domestic violence (assault IV), shoplifting, theft, etc) can make a person inadmissible to Canada, regardless of when they occurred.
from another source:
Quote:
An individual can be considered inadmissible to Canada for a either a felony or a misdemeanor offense (known as an indictable or summary offense, respectively, in Canada). However, many tourists, especially those from visa-exempt countries such as the United States, are not aware that even a long-forgotten misdemeanor offense such as a DUI will hinder their entry to Canada.
http://www.canadavisa.com/canada-eases-entry-rules-for-visitors-with-minor-convictions.html
well fuxk Canada! I didn't wanna visit y'all any wayz!
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: Enlil]
#18858504 - 09/18/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said: IMO, not being able to go to Canada is one of the only good parts about having a criminal record.
Now now, there are some nice places in Canada.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,985
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#18858508 - 09/18/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm sure there were a few nice offices in Auschwitz, too...That doesn't mean I'd like to be sent there.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 8 months
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: NetDiver]
#18858510 - 09/18/13 02:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Samurai Drifter said:
Quote:
KremrBigSikter said: Well, I'm of the belief that it's the act of murder that makes someone a murderer. Call me old fashioned.
So, if you were to come upon someone dangling from a cliff, begging to be pulled up before their grip strength gave out, and you watched as they fell, then you wouldn't consider yourself a murderer?
I would call that murder.
I think they actually call that depraved indifference homicide.Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Oh so you get to decide what is the proper charity.
Let me guess. Your charitable giving amounts to 3 figures at most.
You're deliving into ad-hominem again here with the second part, but with the first -- of course, as the one advocating for certain ethical actions, I get to specify which charities I think deserve the benefit. We're talking about ethics here, so we're talking about opinion. In my opinion, stealing from Wal-Mart and giving to certain charities which work towards the good of humanity would be an ethical action.
Providing cheap prices for customers, steady employment for workers and taxed out the ass profits isn't enough? No, you would send a gang of thieves in to steal and redirect all of that into what you, in your emperor's clothes, deem fit. Really? Quote:
Quote:
Wal-Mart provides an extremely valuable service in that it provides the lowest prices for goods. Their profit margin is shit and poor people are the greatest beneficiaries of their existence. You're fake moralizing is inept and bankrupt.
Do you really think Wal-Mart's profit margins are shit? They are one of the most, if not THE most, profitable countries in the world. Most of their goods are made by people overseas in third world countries, many of them working in sweatshops. They buy off local mafia and police to prevent interference from the governments as well. The beneficiaries of their existence are *some* of the American poor, comparatively wealthy citizens of a first world country who probably wouldn't even be poor by American standards, if not for massive companies like Wal-Mart making it nearly impossible to make a living as a small business owner/entrepreneur, and not paying livable wages to their employees.
http://www.stock-analysis-on.net/NYSE/Company/Wal-Mart-Stores-Inc/Ratios/Profitability#Net-Profit-Margin
Quote:
Net Profit Margin, Comparison to Industry Wal-Mart Stores Inc.1 3.65%
Your ignorance is massive. Who benefits form their goods being made overseas? Their customers. I have heard about some of the graft but it isn't about buying off mafia or police. It is about greasing obstructionist officials in corrupt countries and it is peanuts. The people in those countries who are employed making wal mart goods are damn happy they even have jobs. Living wage? You get the wage your service can command. Every poor person who shops at Wal-Mart benefits.
Face it, you are just an amoral faux moralist crook.
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NetDiver
Wandering Mindfuck


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 6,024
Loc: Everywhere and Nowhere
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
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Re: Shoplifting---and yall's opinion?? [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#18858513 - 09/18/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
MisterMuscaria said: I am extremely anti-shoplifting.
I dont care how evil the person is being stolen from. The principle is not sinking to their level.
It would be impossible for any individual shoplifter to sink to Wal-Mart's level.
That is, unless they enslaved hundreds of poor, starving children first.
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: It doesn't matter what the odds are. You don't know the consequences of your actions. It's not your choice to make.
If that's true, then nobody should ever try to do anything for anybody. Hell, if you tried to help an old woman crossing the street you might trip and accidentally push her into oncoming traffic. You probably won't (just as the person who develops the vaccine probably won't be in the group that is killed), but since the possibility exists, it's not your decision to make.
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