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Brambolinie said:
Maybe time is just an illusion ...

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Bodhi of Ankou said:
Does that mean that there is a finite amount of time before you emerge again? It would follow that because there was not an eternity before your emergence, such a thing is impossible, that there is not an eternity afterwards. Its a wild idea but its almost self apparent. If there was such a thing as an eternity of non existence we would've never existed in the first place, but we do and it follows that eventually we will come back to it.

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Bodhi of Ankou said:
The progression of time is readily apparent. To deny it is ridiculous. Unless you can come up with an explanation thats at least mildly palatable your doing nothing but chasing your own tail, mentally.

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Bodhi of Ankou said:
Does that mean that there is a finite amount of time before you emerge again? It would follow that because there was not an eternity before your emergence, such a thing is impossible, that there is not an eternity afterwards. Its a wild idea but its almost self apparent. If there was such a thing as an eternity of non existence we would've never existed in the first place, but we do and it follows that eventually we will come back to it.

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Bodhi of Ankou said:
Because before and after your existence are one in the same. If it follows that we emerged from non-existence once, then it stands that the same thing will reoccur given enough time.

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Bodhi of Ankou said:
Because before and after your existence are one in the same. If it follows that we emerged from non-existence once, then it stands that the same thing will reoccur given enough time.

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Gloomily walked I lately in corpse-colored twilight- gloomily and sternly, with compressed lips. Not only one sun had set for me.
A path which ascended daringly among boulders, an evil, lonesome path, which neither herb nor shrub any longer cheered, a mountain-path, crunched under the daring of my foot.
Mutely marching over the scornful clinking of pebbles, trampling the stone that let it slip: thus did my foot force its way upwards.
Upwards:- in spite of the spirit that drew it downwards, towards the abyss, the spirit of gravity, my devil and archenemy.
Upwards:- although it sat upon me, half-dwarf, half-mole; paralysed, paralysing; dripping lead in my ear, and thoughts like drops of lead into my brain.
"O Zarathustra," it whispered scornfully, syllable by syllable, "you stone of wisdom! you threw yourself high, but every thrown stone must- fall!
O Zarathustra, you stone of wisdom, you sling-stone, you star-destroyer! Yourself threw you so high,- but every thrown stone- must fall!
Condemned of yourself, and to your own stoning: O Zarathustra, far indeed threw you your stone- but upon yourself will it recoil!"
Then was the dwarf silent; and it lasted long. The silence, however, oppressed me; and to be thus in pairs, one is verily lonesomer than when alone!
I ascended, I ascended, I dreamt, I thought,- but everything oppressed me. A sick one did I resemble, whom bad torture wearies, and a worse dream reawakens out of his first sleep.-
But there is something in me which I call courage: it has hitherto slain for me every dejection. This courage at last bade me stand still and say: "Dwarf! Thou! Or I!"-
For courage is the best killer,- courage which attacks: for in every attack there is sound of triumph. Man, however, is the most courageous animal: thereby has he overcome every animal. With sound of triumph has he overcome every pain; human pain, however, is the sorest pain.
Courage kills also giddiness at abysses: and where does man not stand at abysses! Is not seeing itself- seeing abysses?
Courage is the best killer: courage kills also fellow-suffering. Fellow-suffering, however, is the deepest abyss: as deeply as man looks into life, so deeply also does he look into suffering.
Courage, however, is the best killer, courage which attacks: it kills even death itself; for it says: "Was that life? Well! Once more!"
In such speech, however, there is much sound of triumph. He who has ears to hear, let him hear.

"Halt, dwarf!" said I. "Either I- or you! I, however, am the stronger of the two:- you knowest not my abysmal thought! It- could you not endure!"
Then happened that which made me lighter: for the dwarf sprang from my shoulder, the prying sprite! And it squatted on a stone in front of me. There was however a gateway just where we halted.
"Look at this gateway! Dwarf!" I continued, "it has two faces. Two roads come together here: these has no one yet gone to the end of.
This long lane backwards: it continues for an eternity. And that long lane forward- that is another eternity.
They are antithetical to one another, these roads; they directly abut on one another:- and it is here, at this gateway that they come together. The name of the gateway is inscribed above: 'This Moment.'
But should one follow them further- and ever further and further on, think you, dwarf, that these roads would be eternally antithetical?"-
"Everything straight lies," murmured the dwarf, contemptuously. "All truth is crooked; time itself is a circle."
"You spirit of gravity!" said I wrathfully, "do not take it too lightly! Or I shall let you squat where you squat, Haltfoot,- and I carried you high!"
"Observe," continued I, "This Moment! From the gateway, This Moment, there runs a long eternal lane backwards: behind us lies an eternity.
Must not whatever can run its course of all things, have already run along that lane? Must not whatever can happen of all things have already happened, resulted, and gone by?
And if everything has already existed, what think you, dwarf, of This Moment? Must not this gateway also- have already existed?
And are not all things closely bound together in such wise that This Moment draws all coming things after it? Consequently- itself also?
For whatever can run its course of all things, also in this long lane outward- must it once more run!-
And this slow spider which creeps in the moonlight, and this moonlight itself, and you and I in this gateway whispering together, whispering of eternal things- must we not all have already existed?
-And must we not return and run in that other lane out before us, that long weird lane- must we not eternally return?"

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Sleepwalker said:
I understand the concept.  Seems like just another baseless afterlife theory to me.  We arrived here once.  It's possible it could happen again, but hardly necessary.

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Samurai Drifter said:
Plus, what are the alternatives to us arriving here again? An eternity of nothingness?

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On an eternal timeline, any event which is possible will occur an infinite number of times. Simple math.

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Samurai Drifter said:
Calling it an "afterlife theory" makes it clear that you, in fact, do not understand the concept, as there's nothing supernatural about it, nor is an "afterlife" part of it in any sense.

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Rahz said:
From what I understand the energy invested in the universe is what gives rise to time and space. Once everything has dissolved sufficiently the tendencies that give rise to space time will also relax. The universe might be spread out 50 trillion light years but when space time starts to 'droop' that 50 trillion light years doesn't necessarily amount to anything. My guess is that as soon as space time can't hold itself together the singularity expands again.

If it's proven (which I'm not clear on the specifics) that time and space are a product (which therefore can be deconstructed like everything else), then heat death isn't a viable finality.

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Sleepwalker said:

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Bodhi of Ankou said:
Because before and after your existence are one in the same. If it follows that we emerged from non-existence once, then it stands that the same thing will reoccur given enough time.

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How do you know this?  As far as I know, nobody has access to this kind of knowledge; nobody knows how we come into life.

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Rahz said:
Yea, similar to that except there's no crunch or inward movement. It wouldn't collapse because there would be no where to collapse to, and no time for it.

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