|
Some of these posts are very old and might contain outdated information. You may wish to search for newer posts instead.
|
krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside?
#18856171 - 09/17/13 11:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Obviously it could be hidden within the jar, but if trich is growing on the outside of the jar would it generally show up once the jar is fully colonized? I kept getting trich contamination indoors and I'm trying a go at it again, but I'm not sure where it was coming from, the spawn or my substrate. My jars always smelled and looked good, but I'm not sure if trich even has a smell and unless it sporulates it looks just like tomentose mycilium.
|
azur
God of Fuck


Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
|
Re: Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside? [Re: krypto2000]
#18856233 - 09/17/13 11:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Those summer time blues I keep talking about. I won't always be apparent in jars. If your jars smell good, it's your sub and poor pasteurization.
|
krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside? [Re: azur]
#18856382 - 09/18/13 12:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I know my pasturization temp and time are good, I'm thinking they might have been too wet though, that was something that was mentioned before. So trich does have an off smell to it then?
Edited by krypto2000 (09/18/13 12:30 AM)
|
azur
God of Fuck


Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
|
Re: Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside? [Re: krypto2000]
#18856837 - 09/18/13 06:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Has a dirty smell to it. If your sub is too wet that is bad. Too dry is better than too wet
|
FunnyLight
Nom NOm NOM



Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 1,124
Loc: fuckin Mars man
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
|
Re: Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside? [Re: azur]
#18856899 - 09/18/13 06:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
If you're always getting Trich, how are you sure of your times and temps?
What's your process for prepping your grains? Your substrate?
-------------------- The most powerful drive through the ascent of man, is pleasure in his own skill. J. Bronowski Home of delicious "Psychedelic Nyotaimori". Thanks Lemmingp for that.
 
|
retaardvark
Stranger

Registered: 12/22/12
Posts: 64
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
|
Re: Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside? *DELETED* [Re: azur]
#18856992 - 09/18/13 07:54 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Post deleted by retaardvarkReason for deletion: Not necessary
|
retaardvark
Stranger

Registered: 12/22/12
Posts: 64
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
|
Re: Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside? [Re: retaardvark]
#18856993 - 09/18/13 07:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I've heard that actual trich smells like fresh earth, perhaps a bit "minty"
but many people here refer to a whole variety of green molds as "trich"
Either way, sporulation of competitor molds running directly with and throughout your mycelium very well might not sporulate until spawned to bulk; I have heard that is kind of the norm. I don't have much direct experience with this though.
Edited by retaardvark (09/18/13 07:56 AM)
|
RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 4 days
|
Re: Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside? [Re: krypto2000]
#18857281 - 09/18/13 10:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
krypto2000 said: I kept getting trich contamination indoors and I'm trying a go at it again, but I'm not sure where it was coming from, the spawn or my substrate. My jars always smelled and looked good, but I'm not sure if trich even has a smell and unless it sporulates it looks just like tomentose mycilium.
Quote:
krypto2000 said: I know my pasturization temp and time are good, I'm thinking they might have been too wet though, that was something that was mentioned before. So trich does have an off smell to it then?
There's the problem. You have to sterilize, not pasteurize spawn.
Trich is part of what makes garden soil smell the way it does. Trich smells like dirt. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
|
bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent



Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
|
Re: Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#18857609 - 09/18/13 11:41 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
There's the problem. You have to sterilize, not pasteurize spawn.
Hopefully that was just a typo by krypto2000. I would think his jars would have some definite signs of contamination being only pasteurized.
|
krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside? [Re: RogerRabbit]
#18858060 - 09/18/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I do sterilize my spawn, I was referring to my sub as far as pasteurization goes. I think my spawn and sub were too wet actually, but I had prepped them like I did successfully for years without issue. I took about a year break from growing, maybe I'm doing something different that I don't realize, but other than not using a casing layer (which perhaps was just hiding/delaying the trich?) I'm doing everything the same iirc.
To prep my spawn I use WBS, rinse it with hot water, soak for 16-18 hours, rinse again, bring to a boil and then pour it into a strainer. Then I put a fan on it on a low-medium speed while continuously stirring it for 20-30 minutes until the grains feel dry. I used to use them when they still felt wet because the tek I was following back then wasn't specific and just said to cover the strainer in foil and let them drain for, iirc, 30-90 minutes. Well doing that they can sit there overnight and still feel wet, so I moved to the fan and stirring instead. They still feel cool to the touch because there's a slight bit of water on the outside, but they don't leave any wet prints on a paper towel or anything. Is that still too wet? I'll PC them at 15-18PSI for 80 minutes. My PC is a little old so it takes about 45 minutes to reach pressure if that matters.
As for my substrate I use hpoo, I get it fresh from the field and let it sit in the sun until it smells 'fresh' (as in earthy/clean, then I use a steam pasteurizer I built from a wallpaper steamer and coolor. I'll load my sub in a pillow case, hydrate it and then squeeze it out until no drops come out. I suspect it may have actually been too wet though because I didn't consider that the steam pasteurization might hydrate it further and I don't squeeze it out after pasteurization, just before. To actually pasteurize it I'll put the pillow case in the cooler on top of a metal rack (as the steamer makes a pool at the bottom), I'll use a digital thermometer so I can read it without opening the cooler and put one probe outside the bag and one in the center. I'll let the one outside the bag go upwards of 180, but try to keep it under 160, and keep turning the steamer on and off until the center reaches 140. It takes about 30-60 minutes for it to reach temp in which I'll hold it for an hour. I also don't let the outside probe rise above 160 after the inside is getting close to temp, the outside being the ambient air in the cooler. After the hour is up I'll crack the lid on the cooler to let the excess steam escape and the next day after the sub is below ~85f I'll spawn to my mono.
To spawn I'll wipe my mono down with alcohol, breakup my jars and dump them in (after the alcohol has evaporated). Then I'll dump my substrate on top of that. I also smell check all of my jars. Then I'll put on some surgical gloves, wipe them down with iso, let them dry, and then thoroughly mix up my sub/spawn and break up any clumps that have formed. Lastly I'll put the lid on, tape up the holes with masking tape, and I'm done. Jars always look and smell healthy, I'll let them fully consolidate and then typically wait 3-5 days after that even to be sure they're consolidated all throughout. Usually near day 10-14 is when they get contaminated, though sometimes not until after initiating fruiting. First metabolites will show up and then follows the green mold.
I suspect it's oversaturated because I'll have huge drops of water pooled all over the lid, and sometimes, but not always, even a little bit of water pooling at the bottom of the mono. Still not even sure if it's actually oversaturated though or if the water is actually metabolites and/or contamination. I'll try not to breath on the substrate when I'm spawning and have even used a facemask with no noticeable difference. Is there anything I'm forgetting?
|
Gretchenmeister
Starbeing/Psilocybin Savant



Registered: 07/23/05
Posts: 1,032
Loc: From the Stars
|
Re: Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside? [Re: krypto2000]
#18859039 - 09/18/13 04:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Green mold isn't limited to trich.... think common bread mold too..penicillium perhaps.
I see this happen most often when people are working in kitchens. Then again..it could be trich :p
-------------------- What's wrong with folks? Point your IRC client to irc.socialirc.com, port 6667, #cultivation and #shroomery for live chat with like minded hobbyists and connoisseurs. Mush Porn
|
krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside? [Re: Gretchenmeister]
#18859339 - 09/18/13 05:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I've worked in the kitchen before, but also the living room which hardly even has furniture in it and I'll wipe down the table with alcohol beforehand. No idea . I'm going to keep at it. So far I've surprisingly enough had the most success using coir with the bucket tek, but I prefer poo because with coir I tend to get a ton of smaller fruits which are a pita to clean. For this next run I'm going to do coir, but try to pasteurize it in my pasteurizer, we'll see how that goes. Seems safer being more contaminant resistant, if I can get that down I'll move back to poo.
Edited by krypto2000 (09/18/13 05:28 PM)
|
MastaBlastar
Ruler Of Barter Town


Registered: 04/06/13
Posts: 1,069
Loc: Barter Town, AUS
Last seen: 6 years, 6 months
|
Re: Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside? [Re: krypto2000]
#18859818 - 09/18/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
You try turning off your HVAC for a good hour before and maybe running a little hepa filter for that hour and then letting it settle for an hour?
Another thing that helped me was for bags is using the myco supply bags (they are like 35 cents each) and just put a thermometer in the center of the sub and keep the water temp under 170. I boil it pretty much until the center temp gets to about 120 or so, and then keep it under 170. It sounds like you may be sterilizing your sub at those temps but I am kinda confused as to exactly what your setup is so .
Lastly have you tried adding gypsum and hydrated lime? As wet of a summer as it was where I live I had some mold issues after everything being clean and clear. It did nothing but rain and be overcast for a month or so, spore counts soared, and I got mold issues bad, couldn't get more than one flush out of a single tub all summer. I started adding hydrated lime to my sub and i get at least 2 flushes now before i see any mold issues starting.
-------------------- Everything I have said, may say, will say, am thinking about saying and/or thinking/typing/dreaming/writing is in all likelyhood made up and has no factual basis in reality whatsoever, and is likely all plagiarized and copy pasted straight from someone else, so get mad at them . Just a warning
|
krypto2000
Unknown


Registered: 12/05/06
Posts: 11,579
Last seen: 4 years, 3 months
|
Re: Will trich always show up (eg sporulate) in a jar if present on the outside? [Re: MastaBlastar]
#18859917 - 09/18/13 07:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
I normally add about half a qt of gypsum, and I have lime, but I wasn't sure how much to use so no, I never used it. I didn't want to add too much and mess up the PH since I don't have a way to test it.
Also I didn't mention it, but I always turn any airflow off about 30 minutes before work and have even tried running a hepa beforehand . My house used to be very dirty, there was mold all over the bathroom ceiling for instance. I went through and cleaned the whole place out though since. I've only tried two monos after doing that and they both got contaminated. One of the monos accidentally had some holes in the bottom of it though so that likely contributed to it, but that one actually did better than the other one. The one showed signs of trich around ~12 days into consolidating (it was pretty much done around day 9 or so, but couldn't overtake the rest, likely because of contamination), and the one with the holes didn't contaminate until almost a week into fruiting conditions. The fact that the one with holes in it lasted longer also makes me think it may have been a hydration issue. I also did not manually fan either of those bins which I normally do, as in by wafting the lid over it (that is what you're supposed to do right?), so maybe that's why; I was just trying something different. Put them both outside and got fruits from them however.
I'm not sure if it matters, but I also open my doors and windows to the house as much as possible to cool it, typically at night. Would that be a bad idea? I figured it would actually help since houses tend to have more spores than outside I thought the fresh air would essentially air the place out. I do it for energy and comfort reasons, not because of the mushrooms, but in regards to the mushies that was my thinking. It's getting into the fall now so it doesn't matter so much, but is that a bad idea, should I keep the place closed up? Also why do you think my sub was close to sterilization? I kept it between 140f-160f (60-70c) for 1 hour. I think it actually stays within that range for roughly 2 hours before it starts to drop below 130, but afaik that still should be a proper pasteurization.
Sorry for all the questions, but one last thing. When you guys pasteurize your sub in the oven or on the stove how do you store the bag afterwards/overnight? I always thought the cooler was better too as the inside of the cooler itself has been pasteurized basically so I know it's 'clean' where as if you were to store it in say the bathtub or something you're letting outside spores get in during that time. Do you think it's possible the cooler allows contaminant spores a small window of incubation as it cools allowing for possible issues later on?
|
|