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OfflineMurex
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dissection of TOOL
    #1885104 - 09/05/03 01:44 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Let us examine tool's music in depth.


............anyone up to it? :pill2:


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlineekomstop
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: Murex]
    #1885270 - 09/05/03 02:36 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yes..But where would we start?

Here is some reading material, Courtesy of Google :smile: 

The Correlation Between Lateralus and the Qabala ... The Interactive Qabala    

Click ...  Forty Six and Two & More

InnuendoCornecopria

Toolshed ... Book of TOOL Interpretations

Somehow I get the feeling this may take a while  :crazy:


Edited by ekomstop (09/05/03 03:29 PM)


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: Murex]
    #1885551 - 09/05/03 04:23 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I definitely am. I proposed this in the Tribute thread.

I think we should analyze Lateralus. Maybe the first logical step would be to analyze it theoretically (ie key, time signatures, significant rhythms, themes, interactions between voices[instruments]etc.)
Then we can look at the album as a whole, maybe references to things, possible meaning of lyrics, numerology, the whole macro-scale.

What do you think?


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: Blastrid]
    #1885712 - 09/05/03 05:16 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

sounds like a great idea...


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Anonymous

Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: Murex]
    #1885720 - 09/05/03 05:21 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

talking about music is like dancing about movies.

maynard quoted frank zappa as saying that..


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InvisibleMiddlemanM
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: ]
    #1885739 - 09/05/03 05:27 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

i think he had the Media in mind w/ that...
not musician's and theorist's study.


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OfflineMurex
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: Blastrid]
    #1885787 - 09/05/03 05:38 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Sure, but I think we should at least give the other albums a quick run-thru.

Opiate-
Hush: Seems like I've been here before. Seems so familiar. Seems like I'm slipping into a dream within a dream' .- A drug-induced experience? Possibly, but it could also be some referance to a lucid dream or something. 'It drags me under and takes me home.' - At the end.
Cold and Ugly: 'Wide awake and keeping distance from my soul. I am scared like you.' - Referances to a bad trip, or some sort of fear of introspection due to frightening aspects of oneself?
Opiate: 'Jesus Christ, why don't you come save my life. Open my eyes and blind me with your lightand your lies.' -'Nuff said. Maynard ain't no christian.
The Gaping Lotus Experience: Referances to drugs- Acid and Extacy.

Musically: Not too in dept musically. I think Tool was originally ment to be a pretty hard, hard rock band to begin with. Maybe the members of Tool weren't really taking thier band very seriously at the time. Not that the music was bad, but it just followed that aggressive rock at the time.

Undertow-
Sober: 'Why can't we not be sober? I just want to start this over.' Speaks for itself.
Bottom: 'You've left me no choice but to go inside and rebuild what's broken' The re-programming of the soul perhaps? 'I'm shameless, nameless, nothing, and noone now. But my soul must be iron for my fear is naked. I'm naked and fearless, and my fear is naked.' - To loose the ego, one must give in- one must reach the bottom.
Undertow-
'gone under two times. I've been struck dumb by a voice that speaks from deep beneath the cold black water. It's twice as clear as heaven, and twice as loud as reason.' and 'It seems there's no other way out of this undertow. Euphoria.' Suggests to loosing of the ego.
4 Degrees: 'Get up and free yourself from yourself. Locked up inside you, like the calm beneath castles, is a cavern of treasures that noone has been to. Let's go digging. Bring it out to take you back in.' Suggests that he now has learned something important from his introspection. Other parts of the song refer to anal sex or something, but I think Maynard just throws this stuff in to make the song seem like it's just about anal sex, or the innuendo to it (4 degrees warmer).
Flood: 'All I knew and all I believed are crumbling images that no longer comfort me. I scramble to reach higher ground, some order and sanity, or something to comfort me.' Indicates a struggle within- faith has been shattered by truth.'Thought I was high, and free. I thought I was there- divine destiny. I was wrong. This changes everything.'
Disgustipated: '"Reverend Maynard, tomorrow is harvest day and to them it is the holocaust." And I sprang from my slumber drenched in sweat like the tears of one million terrified brothers and roared, "Hear me now, I have seen the light! They have a consciousness, they have a life, they have a soul! Damn you! Let the rabbits wear glasses! Save our brothers!"' Funny stuff.

Musically: A lot like Opiate, but a bit more refined maybe. Still kinda like hardcore grunge metal. Nothing too extravagant, but good.


Aenima-
Stimkfist: 'It's not enough. I need more. Nothing seems to satisfy. I don't want it. I just need it. To feel, to breathe, to know I'm alive.' This song is about bordum and lack of stimulation (not about the pleasures of skinkfisting).
Eulogy: Superficially, it seems to be about jezus. But underneath, it's about...........something else? Maybe more than one thing. I think this one was ment to just be mysterious, just for the sake of it.
H: Great song, one of my favorites. 'Without the skin, Beneath the storm, Under these tears, The walls came down.' An exodus of the past self? This song is filled with emotion, but the meaning is almost undecipherable- very symbolic.
46&2: The song has to do with the shadow (Jungian term for the subcontious evil of our inner self) and genes- See the Faq for more details on this. 'I'm down. Digging through. My old muscles. Looking for a clue.' and 'I've been crawling on my belly. Clearing out what could've been. I've been wallowing in my own confused. And insecure delusions. For a piece to cross me over. Or a word to guide me in.' Suggests a confused struggle inside himself- looking for a clue.
Pushit: An underrated song imo. I'm pretty sure it's about love and the struggles with it. 'Saw that gap again today As you were begging me to stay. Managed to push myself away, And you, as well my dear.' (the live version kicks ass).
Anema: This song is about hatread for the silly people of L.A.. 'Cuz I'm praying for rain. And I'm praying for tidal waves. I wanna see the ground give way. I wanna watch it all go down.'
Third Eye: Awesome song! Starts with Bill Hicks talking about drugs. 'A child's rhyme stuck in my head. It said that life is but a dream. I've spent so many years in question to find I've known this all along.' Indicates that somewhere deep inside, he had a famillar sense of this reality being a dream after being reminded with the use of meditation or psykadelliks. This is my favorite part-
Shrouding all the ground around me
Is this holy crow above me.
Black as holes within a memory
And blue as our new second sun.
I stick my hand into his shadow
To pull the pieces from the sand.
Which I attempt to reassemble
To see just who I might have been.
I do not recognize the vessel,
But the eyes seem so familiar.
Like phosphorescent desert buttons
Singing one familiar song...

Musically: Great stuff! I loved the drum solo in Pushit. 46&2 and 3rd eye had good drumming in it as well. Danny really shines in this album. Adam also does a good job imo. A very close second favorite of mine. I used to listen to this album over and over- never getting tired of it. This album has everything and more- the lyricless tracks really add to this album.

Lateralus-
The Grudge: This song seems to me to be about re-incarnation (?)- definately about letting go of your anger. 'Give away the stone. Let the oceans take and transmutate this cold and fated anchor. Give away the stone. Let the waters kiss and transmutate these leaden grudges into gold. Let go.'
The Patient: About the draining effects of religion, and how the truth is so ellusive, even after years of holding tight to faith (or spirituality). 'If there were no desire to heal. The damaged and broken met along this tedious path I've chosen here, I certainly would've walked away by now. And I still may ... (sigh) ... I still may. Be patient. I must keep reminding myself of this.'
Schism: About communication between a loved one and oneself (imo).
Parabol: Speaks for itself- 'We barely remember what came before this precious moment, Choosing to be here right now. Hold on, stay inside...This body holding me, reminding me that I am not alone in This body makes me feel eternal. All this pain is an illusion.'
Parabola: Awesome transition from Parabol (gives me the chills). 'This body holding me reminds me of my own mortality.Embrace this moment. Remember. We are eternal. All this pain is an illusion.' Speaks for itself.
Lateralus: 'Over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind. Withering my intuition, missing opportunities and I must Feed my will to feel my moment drawing way outside the lines.' Indicates thinking outside the box, and therefore outside this reality. I love this part- 'I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human.' Great stuff!
Reflection: Starts off being very down, later refers to a reflection that brings hope for the depressed and disillusioned. Then the climax- 'So crucify the ego, before it's far too late. To leave behind this place so negative and blind and cynical, And you will come to find that we are all one mind Capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable.' Great song.
Triad: No words, but it kicks ass musically. It definately has grown on me.
Faaip de Oiad: A wierd track with a strange electronic sound that feels as if a rift in space-time is being ripped open. The words are of a caller from the Art Bell radio show who is hysterical about aliens and a conspiracy. The brodcast ended when the radio station went dead for some reason. This track is very intense while tripping.

Musically: I don't know where to start. Very good quality recording, precise layering, and strange rythums that aren't heard normally. It all flows very well despite these strange rythums (duh), and it makes it very unique. Tool is very experimental, mysterious and mathmatic. This album is definately the best musically (and has awesome lyrics).




--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: Murex]
    #1885871 - 09/05/03 05:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I sort of proposed the whole music project as a way to be able to analyze and learn from the music while at the same time working with music itself, instead of dancing about movies, so to speak. :grin:

Music can be interpreted in any direction, all depending on who is listening, their own beliefs, and how in depth they go into the whole thing.. Some musicians make music to not have much meaning at all. Some fill it with a very specific vision on what it means, and some take a subject and leave it open to any meaning that different people can find in it, while having some main direction in it themselves..

Now, to lists some quotes from Reverend Maynard himself:

Quote:


Music is definitely a higher form of language. It definitely cuts right straight to the bone without having to explain it, a lot of times. It moves things on a body level, an emotional level.




Quote:


I don't think that we sound machine-like. I think we may be like a clock. So is the universe. The universe has patterns that pretty much chime right in with each other.




Quote:


Well, I think it's just where we're at at this point in time. Next year, we may not be commenting on these things. If you think of the big picture, it doesn't really matter, because I think that things are going to work out anyway. It's going to be okay. It doesn't really matter what you believe or what you're into. Everybody's having their experiences and they have a right to those experiences. It's all just one great big dance anyway.




Quote:


I think that there are many meanings that we really strive for within the music. There are layers of interpretation. If people want to think it is about fist-fucking (Stinkfist), that's fine. That's where they are at. But if you really look at it and really look at us and who we are (?which supports my whole perspective thing?), they'll understand that we go a little deeper than some write-off song about fist-fucking. Now they'll go a little deeper, trying to find out what's really going on.




Quote:


?commenting on how the song 'Sober' isn't about saying no to drugs?
It's saying why can't we get along? It's about unity.




I still am planning on putting together the music project, it will just be a couple of days before I have the forum set up and running for us to conveyne and start throwing around ideas.. It will definitely be fun, creative, educational, and quite the experience..
Peace.


--------------------
:redpanda:
If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
For I've never known completeness
Like being here
Wrapped in the warmth of you
Loving every breath of you

:heartpump: :bunnyhug: :yinyang:

:yinyang: :levitate: :earth: :levitate: :yinyang:


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Offlineekomstop
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: Murex]
    #1885909 - 09/05/03 06:07 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Whoa..looks like I got the wrong idea entirely about what exactly you wanted to look into.. =/  Did you write that all up just now??  What 'FAQ' is it reffering to in the Aenima part? 

I have never actually heard opiate, and, wasn't there another album called salvial? These would be the only two albums I have not heard..  Either way, I really enjoyed reading that..Awesome post :smile:       


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OfflineMurex
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: ekomstop]
    #1886050 - 09/05/03 06:42 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

The faq I was refering to was the official Tool faq (found on most tool sites). I was basically summerizing the albums as quickly as I could, many songs were left out.

Salival isn't really an album (imo) cuz it has live tracks of songs on other albums and re-makes of other artist's songs on it. I like it, but it doesn't seem like a very complete or substantial cd to me. I think some of it is the stuff that didn't make Lataralus.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Anonymous

Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: Middleman]
    #1886066 - 09/05/03 06:45 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

shrug. i remember hearing an interview with him, 'maynards high five' i think. his 'top 5' songs or some such. he wouldnt go into why he liked any of them, i thought it was kind of weird at the time. but after hearing that and thinking about it, its not...


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OfflineMurex
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: ]
    #1887057 - 09/06/03 12:54 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

What were his top 5?


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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Anonymous

Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: Murex]
    #1890702 - 09/07/03 12:52 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

a bunch of songs i never heard of, and kashmir by led zeppelin.

its been a while, im sure you can download the interview, though. or find a transcript.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: Murex]
    #1895451 - 09/08/03 08:12 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Murex said:


Salival isn't really an album (imo) cuz it has live tracks of songs on other albums and re-makes of other artist's songs on it. I like it, but it doesn't seem like a very complete or substantial cd to me. I think some of it is the stuff that didn't make Lataralus.




Salvial/Salival is an EP, which is supposed to be for live, b-sides and covers.
TOOL's No Quarter is the best Zep cover ever, imho.

Everything is Mind. Nothing is substantial, only Meaning exists.

i'll share ideas when time permits.



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OfflineMurex
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: Middleman]
    #1895759 - 09/08/03 10:00 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I do love that Zep cover thow. It sounds awesome, but I don't care for the lyrics. The live Third Eye and Pushit are excellent. That's basically the bulk of the album.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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OfflineAdamist
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: ]
    #1895915 - 09/08/03 10:51 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I've heard that interview... I think he talks about his top albums, not songs.

One of them happens to be Passion by Peter Gabriel.

Another is the album with Kashmir on it...

A few others I can't recall.  :confused: 


--------------------
:heartpump: { { { ṧ◎ηḯ¢ αʟ¢ℌ℮мƴ } } } :heartpump:


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OfflineBlastrid
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: Murex]
    #1896213 - 09/09/03 12:12 AM (13 years, 2 months ago)

I'd like to take a theoretical approach. Hopefully there are likeminded music theorists out there.

I'll start with the Grudge, and please add any info you have regarding time signatures, relation of instruments, significant rhythms or themes, etc.

First of all the opening lick is in common time, but the main 4 note theme is a 3 against 2. on the desk, tap one hand twice and the other hand three times and meet back on one the same time. THIS is a very common theme in just about every song on the album. There is something sacred in 3 against 2... phi?
Then around 1:00 vocals come in and theme 2 arises, in 5/4, over the bass still in 4/4. Then a set of bars of just simplification, where bass, guitar, and symbols all hit on the downbeat, and the kick drum is subdividing the measure, I think it's 1|1|1 2|1 2|1 2 3|1 2 3|1 2 3 4|1 2 3 4.... then I can't tell. Can anyone help?
Then the bass has a melody in 5/4, or 10/8.. most of the song is in this time signature, with the others returning in the end.

I'm sure bar numbers and what not have major significance, but man anyone else counted these out?

At first I thought the subdivision section might be in fibbonacci sequence, but i'm pretty sure it's not.

Any other additions?


--------------------
Blas'?trid (bl?s tr?d)
    n.  3rd generation derivitave of a combination of 'bastard' and 'blasted'.  Used as both an insult or an expletive.
    ex.  Blastrid!

Stereopattern  <--My music.


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Offlinebarfightlard
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: Murex]
    #1899991 - 09/09/03 10:09 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

This guy has some interesting ideas. http://www.angelfire.com/la2/aenima/


--------------------

"What business is it of yours what I do, read, buy, see, say, think, who I fuck, what I take into my body - as long as I do not harm another human being on this planet?" - Bill Hicks


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Anonymous

Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: barfightlard]
    #1900109 - 09/09/03 10:47 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

WOW!
You guys smoke way too much weed!
Ha Ha Ha
Just kidding of course!
I love TOOL, although i don't have the musical background to really join in your discussion.
I did however have the privilege of seeing them live TWICE last summer! An interesting note was that during an oncore performance of
"Opiate" Manard seemed to be singing to an imaginary person while bent over pounding the hell out of him. (Jesus?, a priest?) :oogle: 


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OfflineMurex
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Re: dissection of TOOL [Re: barfightlard]
    #1900196 - 09/09/03 11:08 PM (13 years, 2 months ago)

(from the link)-

The Grudge
Normal
A song about letting go of any negative feelings you may have against someone, something, or even yourself. "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us". It's about forgiveness. The only way to truly change something is to understand its nature and tolerate its shortcomings with an open heart.
Spiritual
In reference to Qabalah. "Saturn ascends, choose one or ten. Hang on or be humbled again". "One" in the tree of life represents earth, our mother, our hell. "Ten" represents Heaven, our father, our spiritual right. "Saturn" represents Da'at in Qabalah. It is the hidden sephiroth. Da'at represents knowledge. In order to get to this hidden knowledge, one must think with an open mind and heart. God is transmuting new knowledge to us at this time. We are in the Age of Aquarius. So listen up. The song literally means "sink or swim". Every time you act, think, or speak negatively you fall further from heaven and deeper into the dream which is reality.

Eon Blue Apocalypse
An Eon is defined as "An indefinitely long period of time; an age." I think Blue is used as dismal; dreary, like a blue day. We all know what an apocalypse is. So I think the meaning of this track is: A long and boring end. Possibly what our species will face.

The Patient
Normal
Be patient in life, for every beginning has an end. A man's unique outlook on life. He wants to have faith but it's hard when you have to go through so much pain here. Yet something inside is telling him to hold on.
Spiritual
The Buddhist religion teaches us that to be freed from the "cycle of life and death" one must attain spiritual enlightenment. Then and only then can one be free. I think the song is a reference to having faith in that. Time means nothing because it doesn't exist. So, Hold on!
Mantra
Mantra is defined as: "A sacred verbal formula repeated in prayer, meditation, or incantation, such as an invocation of a god, a magic spell, or a syllable or portion of scripture containing mystical potentialities. " I think this song sounds like distorted whales. According to Drunvalo, whales are "The most intelligent, advanced, oldest life form on this planet" He also says that "The whales have been on this planet, conscious and alive for 500 million years. They hold the memory of the planet. " So your guess is as good as mine.

Schism
1."A separation or division into factions."
2."A formal breach of union within a Christian church."
a."The offense of attempting to produce such a breach."
3."Disunion; discord."

I think schism has something to do with our creation and losing essential communication in a relationship. Maynard says something about a light that fueled our fire. A love that was once there but is now gone. "Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication." Any of you who have had relationships know how this is. When you lose that essential communication everything just crumbles. In the video you see a man and a woman that may represent Adam and Eve. The man is desensitized to her because she has given him knowledge from the tree. She then is eaten by her guilt in betraying god. They are then cast out of Eden. In the end they "wake up" and realize that they are part of something greater and they then come together as one body, one consciousness. Also, at the end of the video you see a flame that starts as a spiral, this is the spiral of love. (Read more about the Fibonacci sequence.)

Parabol & Parabola
Normal
A Parable is a simple story illustrating a moral or religious lesson. I think this song is to tell us that we should enjoy life and live in harmony with one another.
A Parabola is an advanced mathamatical formula: y2 = 2 px
It is a plane curve formed by the intersection of a cone with a plane parallel to a straight line on the slanting surface of the cone.
Spiritual
"Remember, we are eternal. All this pain is an illusion". Once again a reference to reanimation into this world. Your body is just an instrument in which god works his magic upon this reality. The body means very little and a whole lot. It is the intermediary to this world and the worlds above and below it. We are light weavers. We are creaters of other worlds.
Astrological
The mathamatical term Parabola to me is how this universe is able to exist and thus this reality. we are everything and we are nothing.

Ticks & Leaches
Normal
This song is unlike the rest of the album. It is one of Maynard's hardest performances ever. I think this song is about the kind of people who feed off of others.
Spiritual
Vampires do exist. yes, Spiritual vampires. The kind of people who feed off of your being. When you are around these people you often feel drained.

Lateralus
Normal
The term "Lateralus" to me means upward movement. Be it thinking, acting, feeling.
Spiritual
I think it's about realizing that the meaning of life is much more that you can imagine. There are infinite possibilities. "to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human." I think that verse means that he is longing to be eternal and know all while he is human. The only way that can be obtained is to leg go of everything materialistic and know that you are a being of light and love.
Correlations
Spirals are commonly found in nature. Galaxies, shells, plant growth, and yes, even human growth. Right down to our DNA structure.
The Axiom "As above, so below". The microcosm and the macrocosm. If you want to know anthing about the universe, yourself, plants, animals etc. All you have to do is look around you. Everything on this earth is a mirror image of the universe. I'll prove it.
Why are the planets here? Look down into Atomic structure. Notice any correlation. Ah, Yes something in the center (sun):(nucleus) (planets):(electrons) all down to the freakin magnetic fields of the planets have to do with this. It has been proven that Atoms are just a vibration of positive and negative charged particles. The subatomic particles are us and every living thing that creates energies. We are inside of another life form.

Disposition
Normal
Disposition defined is "One's usual mood; temperament". In this case a saddning mood.
Spiritual
He wants to see proof that god exists so he is praying for the divine spirit to show him proof.

Reflection
Normal
A song telling us how we are wasting our lives just admiring ourselves.
Spiritual
What we term "ourselves" is only a minute portion of what we really are. "And you will come to find that we are all one mind. Capable of all that's imagined and all conceivable. So let the light touch you so that the words spill through."
The light he is speaking of "the endless sheen" is the light that animates everything in existance. The white light that is encoded with the very fabric of our existance. You know that thing called the rainbow? Yeah, the light spectrum: Violet, Indego, Blue, Green, Yellow, Orange, Red. Everything that we can see with our eyes is encoded with this spectrum. The things we can't see in the spectrum are Ultraviolet rays, x-rays, Infared rays etc. Its the sprial that passes through us and connects us to everything.

Triad
Normal
Triad: "A group of three"
Spritual
The Tree of Life comes in again. When two aspects of the Tree of Life come together to form one aspect. They are called Triads and represent you and every level of your existance.
I would have to write a book for you to explain exactly how. So, go and find a nice book on The tree of life or visit the Tree of life section of this site.

Faaip De Oiad (The Voice Of God)
It's pretty easy. It's about the aliens "Greys". They are interdimensional beings and they want to know what keeps us alive. It's because we can love and the ability is within us all to move up and take our rightful place in the universe.


--------------------
What if everything around you
Isn't quite as it seems?
What if all the world you think you know,
Is an elaborate dream?
And if you look at your reflection,
Is it all you want it to be?



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