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Offlineresonant111
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guilt is the source of all pain
    #18848907 - 09/16/13 12:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

i've realized that all the anxiety/fear and pain in my life is due to this strange, repressed sense of guilt for truly enjoying the joy of life in EACH AND EVERY MOMENT, without shame.

i typed "guilt is the source of all pain" into google and this came up: i agree with all of it:

Quote:


Guilt is an emotional discomfort that arises when we feel we have not lived up to some responsibility or that we have done something wrong. It does not mean we actually did something wrong; we just have to think we did something wrong.

Guilt is the Human Condition. Now, this is much too painful for most of us to bear. We tend to deny our guilt; pretend it does not exist, and blame someone else.  We can be very guilty without realizing it. All of this inner guilt and turmoil results in fear, hate, and conflict in the outer world. Guilt is the source of all human conflict.






liberate yourself from guilt and you achieve unbound FREEDOM. it's that simple.


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OfflinePEROXIDE
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: resonant111]
    #18848998 - 09/16/13 12:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

i often feel guilt for being an asshole in general to my friends.


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I say made up things in forums just to feel cool.  Everything I say is rubbish.


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InvisibleWhite Beard

Registered: 08/13/11
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: resonant111]
    #18849008 - 09/16/13 12:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

what about pain that doesn't come from guilt? such as stumbling your toe, or starving to death.


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Offlineresonant111
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: White Beard]
    #18849019 - 09/16/13 12:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

White Beard said:
what about pain that doesn't come from guilt? such as stumbling your toe, or starving to death.




well i guess i meant it's the source of all self-created psychological pain, to be specific.

anxiety, depression and other psychological problems are rooted in guilt above all else.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: resonant111]
    #18849041 - 09/16/13 12:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I actually believe betrayal is the source.  Either you betray yourself, someone betrays you, or you betray someone else.  All of those can lead to feelings of guilt, but guilt was not something that came from nothing.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #18849097 - 09/16/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Guilt can arise from betrayal, but it can also arise from situations that don't involve betrayal.  An individual can feel guilty after doing something un-Christian because their parents instilled the habituated response when they raised him or her, but the mere act of doing something un-Christian doesn't necessarily involve any kind of betrayal.

OP: Guilt is certainly detrimental to living an entirely free, happy life, but I wouldn't say that it's the source of all pain.


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: deCypher]
    #18849167 - 09/16/13 01:23 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That person doing the un-Christian thing will feel a sense of betraying themselves, the habituated faith, or their parents. 

Guilt arises because of some cognitive dissonance - there is a conflicting idea, and I propose that all (maybe most, I welcome the challenge) can be reduced to betrayal.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisibledeCypher
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #18849194 - 09/16/13 01:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Feeling that you're betraying someone/something or that you're being betrayed is different from actually being betrayed or actually betraying.

But OK, how about an easier counterexample: I step on a bug and immediately feel guilty for doing so.  Where is the betrayal?


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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #18849213 - 09/16/13 01:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

HagbardCeline said:
That person doing the un-Christian thing will feel a sense of betraying themselves, the habituated faith, or their parents. 

Guilt arises because of some cognitive dissonance - there is a conflicting idea, and I propose that all (maybe most, I welcome the challenge) can be reduced to betrayal.




Musta done somebody wrong. 



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Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: deCypher]
    #18849308 - 09/16/13 01:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well, although I understand the sentiment of the difference you are explaining between perceived and actual betrayal, in practice I don't think the distinction is necessary.  An imagined or actual betrayal is still perceived the same way.

As for the bug - Were you be of the belief that killing a bug is inconsequential, then stepping on it would not elicit feelings of guilt.  For you to immediately feel guilty, a belief had to exist that a bugs life has value, enough value that you would would make an effort to not kill the bug if you had the choice.  Your action of stepping and killing could conceivably have been avoided  by a more conscious effort on your part to check where your foot was going.  You have then betrayed your own belief by not fulfilling your expectations of yourself and this idea you hold.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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Offlineresonant111
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #18850489 - 09/16/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

have you ever been afraid that someone is judging you for acting a certain way? have you ever felt embarassed or ashamed for experiencing joy in the presence of strangers? have you ever restrained yourself emotionally in public or formal settings to "seem more normal"?

if you answered yes to any of these questions, perhaps you will understand why guilt is the source of all psychological pain. our essence is unconditional joy...so when we repress that joy due to guilt and fear of judgment from others or society, we suffer immensely.

perhaps i have been affected by this subconscious sense of guilt more than others here...all i know is that for me personally, GUILT is the life-crippler, the soul crusher. i've spent much of my life unable to express the love inside me out of fear of judgment or rejection from others.

when the guilt and fear of judgment is lifted, i am free to be. that's all i'm saying. guilt and freedom are incompatible. to be free, there can be no fear of judgment.


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: resonant111]
    #18850641 - 09/16/13 06:42 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

resonant111 said:
have you ever been afraid that someone is judging you for acting a certain way? have you ever felt embarassed or ashamed for experiencing joy in the presence of strangers? have you ever restrained yourself emotionally in public or formal settings to "seem more normal"?

if you answered yes to any of these questions, perhaps you will understand why guilt is the source of all psychological pain. our essence is unconditional joy...so when we repress that joy due to guilt and fear of judgment from others or society, we suffer immensely.

perhaps i have been affected by this subconscious sense of guilt more than others here...all i know is that for me personally, GUILT is the life-crippler, the soul crusher. i've spent much of my life unable to express the love inside me out of fear of judgment or rejection from others.

when the guilt and fear of judgment is lifted, i am free to be. that's all i'm saying. guilt and freedom are incompatible. to be free, there can be no fear of judgment.




much of my feeling of joy is interpreted as being a pretentious asshole by others.  then they shut down, and i feel even more guilty about being a pretentious asshole. 

can i help the way i come across?  oh sorry people, my life is good so i shouldn't be happy and tell you i am.  or if i am not, you could give a fuck anyway and that pisses you off too.  either way, i lose.

no fear of judgement, just a disgust of it.


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Anxiety is what you make it.


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Offlineresonant111
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #18850728 - 09/16/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:
much of my feeling of joy is interpreted as being a pretentious asshole by others.  then they shut down, and i feel even more guilty about being a pretentious asshole. 

can i help the way i come across?  oh sorry people, my life is good so i shouldn't be happy and tell you i am.  or if i am not, you could give a fuck anyway and that pisses you off too.  either way, i lose.

no fear of judgement, just a disgust of it.




you can only be disgusted with the judgments of others if deep down inside, you fear them to some extent.

and this is precisely the point i am trying to get at. no matter how we act, in this life, there is often this tendency to feel GUILT over our natural feelings. if we are feeling happy/joyful, perhaps we feel guilty that we are being OVERLY joyful and that people are judging us for being "weird" or something (so we tone down the joy expression to act more "normal" or sane or whatever, to escape judgment)

or perhaps we are feeling very sad and we feel guilt over THAT as well, due to fear of someone judging the way we are acting. either way, the guilt is what cripples us by REPRESSING whatever true emotion we are feeling towards life.

now when you remove that fear-based guilt, our genuine emotions are able to truly BE. and when the guilt and fear of judgment is lifted, we are generally left with a sense of UNBOUND FREEDOM AND AUTHENTICITY. at least that's usually what i experience when i just drop all fear of judgment from others....it's like i finally become *real* again.


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OfflineHagbardCeline
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: resonant111]
    #18851436 - 09/16/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Even as you are typing this, you separate out guilt and fear of judgement.  They are separate ideas.  You seem to have amended your your additional premise and added this new concept to the point you are trying to make.

I understand that you feel like guilt and freedom are incompatible, I am proposing that perhaps you are failing to reduce the problem enough.


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I keep it real because I think it is important that a highly esteemed individual such as myself keep it real lest they experience the dreaded spontaneous non-existance of no longer keeping it real. - Hagbard Celine


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: HagbardCeline]
    #18852328 - 09/17/13 03:52 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I think guilt is the source of a lot of pain, but that in turn points to living in the past, instead of being able to let go of things that have already happened.  The same with fear of judgement, which relates to worrying about what might happen, what people might think of you, and thus living in the future. 

Happiness is found in the present.


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Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: PocketLady]
    #18852359 - 09/17/13 04:25 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Guilt is from not being with God. Adam and Eve hid from God when they sinned and hid themselves from the Lord. They felt guilty because they were not with God. And we do to when we are not with God, we become ashamed and guilty. Our sins separate us from God as well, if we had no sins we would be completely united to God and feel no guilt at all.

If we feel guilty we should ask God for forgiveness or ask the person we offended for it. It is sin. Sin is anything which separates us from God and from love.

The Bible says that sin makes us believe that we will be punished. It is a natural thing. Not that God will actually punish us (he could), but our conscience accuses us and we are guilty for it.
In this verse, David the psalmist talks about how God will punish a sinner, but in reality what its really saying is that people in sin feel like God will punish them. As if they will be punished. This is what guilt is; that you will be feel like you will be punished for what you have or have not done.

Psalm 68:21 NIV
New International Version
"Surely God will crush the heads of his enemies, the hairy crowns of those who go on in their sins."


Who is it who can punish and who can save, is not God? Only God can judge us.


Edited by SpiritualWarrior (09/17/13 04:41 AM)


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OfflineNastyDHL
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: resonant111]
    #18852607 - 09/17/13 07:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

"Forgiveness is the greatest jewel one can wear"-Shri Anandi Ma



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Offlinenicechrisman
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: resonant111]
    #18852844 - 09/17/13 09:33 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I've been pondering the ultimate source of suffering myself lately, and what I've concluded is that all pain stems from a lack of acceptance of how things are.


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"Cosmic Love is absolutelely ruthless and highly indifferent:
it teaches its lessons whether you like/dislike them or not."

John C. Lily

 


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: nicechrisman]
    #18852899 - 09/17/13 09:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nicechrisman said:
I've been pondering the ultimate source of suffering myself lately, and what I've concluded is that all pain stems from a lack of acceptance of how things are.




:thumbup:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Offlinemindboggle
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Re: guilt is the source of all pain [Re: nicechrisman]
    #18852901 - 09/17/13 09:57 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

"all the anxiety/fear and pain in my life is due to this strange, repressed sense of guilt for truly enjoying the joy of life in EACH AND EVERY MOMENT, without shame."

Sounds like you are creating depression from "a sense of guilt". Depression is not a real thing, It just means that your thoughts are taking your emotions for a ride. Separate yourself from your thoughts and emotions, and all that's left is awareness.

True awareness brings guilt-less enjoyment of life in each and every moment, without shame. (whatever that means)


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