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Offlineviktor
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #18847467 - 09/16/13 02:15 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I don't believe in Jesus.


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: viktor]
    #18847528 - 09/16/13 03:07 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
I don't believe in Jesus.




Then why did you quote him?


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Offlineviktor
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #18847556 - 09/16/13 03:32 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I didn't.


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OfflineGoldenArrow
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: viktor]
    #18848180 - 09/16/13 09:07 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)



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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: viktor]
    #18848825 - 09/16/13 12:13 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
I didn't.



Quote:

viktor said:
There is only one faith, and it's within. What is without is only a set of guidelines for the confused to learn to know themselves. The multiplicity of lies necessitates a multiplicity of outer faiths. But you either know yourself or you live forever in fear and delusion.

Consult the Book of Luke 17:20-21.




Yes you did you said to read the book of Luke.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #18848833 - 09/16/13 12:15 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
Well that's where the Trinity doctrine/theory comes into play. Many places in the Bible refer to Jesus as God, but it also has the Father being God as well. If Jesus is the "Son of God" as it says, then it means he is equal with God even John's Gospel says that,




The entire principle of the teachings is that everyone is equal as a componenet of God and that every person is a son of God.

The only difference Jesus has to the next person (who is also the son of God) is that the Holy Spirit shone through him more pure than it seemingly did anyone else that allowed him to see through the smokescreen of material doctrine.


Quote:


John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”



The Trinity is a doctrine that says there are 3 different attributes/beings of God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God's activity in the world and in ourselves. The Son is God in the flesh, and the Father is the originator of all that exists "The Father of Lights". Its one God but its three different activities or beings of the same God.




His message was that the Holy Spirit is within all which he urged people to seek within themselves and follow to discover that they too are God.

There was no suggested high and mighty.  Just the almighty that encompasses all.


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18848877 - 09/16/13 12:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
I didn't.



Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
Well that's where the Trinity doctrine/theory comes into play. Many places in the Bible refer to Jesus as God, but it also has the Father being God as well. If Jesus is the "Son of God" as it says, then it means he is equal with God even John's Gospel says that,




The entire principle of the teachings is that everyone is equal as a componenet of God and that every person is a son of God.

The only difference Jesus has to the next person (who is also the son of God) is that the Holy Spirit shone through him more pure than it seemingly did anyone else that allowed him to see through the smokescreen of material doctrine.


Quote:


John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”



The Trinity is a doctrine that says there are 3 different attributes/beings of God. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God's activity in the world and in ourselves. The Son is God in the flesh, and the Father is the originator of all that exists "The Father of Lights". Its one God but its three different activities or beings of the same God.




His message was that the Holy Spirit is within all which he urged people to seek within themselves and follow to discover that they too are God.

There was no suggested high and mighty.  Just the almighty that encompasses all.




If you're God then why do you need to go to the doctor everytime you get sick? Nobody can become like God without Christ.

This idea that you can become God without Jesus is complete bull. Jesus was God and man and if you do not have Jesus you can never become divine. It wouldn't be possible.



Edited by SpiritualWarrior (09/16/13 12:26 PM)


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OfflineYage
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18848891 - 09/16/13 12:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If I was Jesus I would of jumped into an icy grave with a WWJD bracelet on to preserve my mortal existence.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #18849017 - 09/16/13 12:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
If you're God then why do you need to go to the doctor everytime you get sick?




The spiritual totality is God.  The separated components are so because they are completely oblivious or ignorant of the connection.

It doesn't matter what's going on in the illusion.  It's riding on the law of duality and it's imperfect state is apt. Whilst the disconenction persists, so does the illusion, which is a suffering in it's entirety as a consequence for having disconnected.

In Laymans terms, you need to go to the doctor when you get sick because you are playing a game, as a separated entity from God, in which you need to go to the doctor when you get sick.

Quote:


This idea that you can become God without Jesus is complete bull. Jesus was God and man and if you do not have Jesus you can never become divine. How would it be possible?





The "idea" is that you need to awaken to being a separated, equal part of God (as everyone else is) so that you can reunite with the true almighty consciousness.

You don't become God through Jesus.  You become reunited with God through the Holy Spirit (which Jesus was a material embodiment of in it's purest form serving only as an ally).


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (09/16/13 01:09 PM)


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18849464 - 09/16/13 02:44 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
If you're God then why do you need to go to the doctor everytime you get sick?




The spiritual totality is God.  The separated components are so because they are completely oblivious or ignorant of the connection.

It doesn't matter what's going on in the illusion.  It's riding on the law of duality and it's imperfect state is apt. Whilst the disconenction persists, so does the illusion, which is a suffering in it's entirety as a consequence for having disconnected.

In Laymans terms, you need to go to the doctor when you get sick because you are playing a game, as a separated entity from God, in which you need to go to the doctor when you get sick.

Quote:


This idea that you can become God without Jesus is complete bull. Jesus was God and man and if you do not have Jesus you can never become divine. How would it be possible?





The "idea" is that you need to awaken to being a separated, equal part of God (as everyone else is) so that you can reunite with the true almighty consciousness.

You don't become God through Jesus.  You become reunited with God through the Holy Spirit (which Jesus was a material embodiment of in it's purest form serving only as an ally).




Okay but how does one become reunited to God without Jesus Christ? I don't mean the Holy Spirit I mean the Man Christ Jesus. The point is that he really is who he said he is in the Gospel. The "Way, Truth and Life." If you read the Gospels with any kind of comprehension it would be obvious that Jesus was not a Holy Spirit as you say but rather a human being who was Divine with the same divinity as God was and was God in the flesh. And if he had not performed the miracles that he did we would have no way of attaining the Holy Spirit or becoming united with God. Union with God presupposes that there is a way for God to dwell within us, it does not come naturally. The body must have God inside it. It is not possible for this to happen without the Body of Christ having died on the cross and then risen again from the dead. Without this it would be nearly impossible for the Holy Spirit to enter a person, at least with any kind of real power. You just don't get something from nothing there has to be a concrete reason for why and how you can have the Holy Spirit inside of you, you cannot just wish for it to be so or think it so.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #18849592 - 09/16/13 03:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Jesus wasn't the holy spirit. ("The" meaning there is only One).

He was flesh and blood, but someone that had crystal clear scope of the spirit within him.

The Holy Spirit did not derive from the crucifixion / ressurection.  The spirit is God given. It's an essence which has been and always will be.  It's the footprint from the source where man once was before the separation.

Jesus' teachings were based upon having people find the Holy Spirit within long before he was crucified.

The crucifixion symbolizes surrender; laying down the "self", the ego, the material attachment, to the essence of the spirit within as rite of passage.

With the flesh and blood of Jesus no longer of this world he is now part of the Holy Spirit (as he's now One with God) by which he functions as an available and relatable ally within that spirit.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (09/16/13 03:43 PM)


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18849976 - 09/16/13 04:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Jesus wasn't the holy spirit. ("The" meaning there is only One).

He was flesh and blood, but someone that had crystal clear scope of the spirit within him.

The Holy Spirit did not derive from the crucifixion / ressurection.  The spirit is God given. It's an essence which has been and always will be.  It's the footprint from the source where man once was before the separation.

Jesus' teachings were based upon having people find the Holy Spirit within long before he was crucified.

The crucifixion symbolizes surrender; laying down the "self", the ego, the material attachment, to the essence of the spirit within as rite of passage.

With the flesh and blood of Jesus no longer of this world he is now part of the Holy Spirit (as he's now One with God) by which he functions as an available and relatable ally within that spirit.





You really need to go back and read the Gospel (Gr. Good News) again because you obviously missed its meaning. Where did you get these teachings from? You can't just pick and choose the verses you want to listen to and ignore all the others, or interpret the Scripture in such an irrational way as to say the crucifixion was nothing but a symbol, that is not even using reason. Read the text for what it is not what you presume it to be. Like I said you can't really understand it without good teachers so who are you listening to?
And is the teaching from God or is it from Men? Even Jesus said in John that he did not speak from himself but from God, that God gave him his teachings.

Most of this gnostic stuff is nothing but the teachings of men. Man made religion based on ideas that have been passed down from sources that are questionable. Claiming a separation of spirit from matter is a blasphemy. Jesus symbolizes a full union of spirit and matter, God and Man. He does not separate spirit from matter but came to unite spirit with matter. Gnostics teach that there is separation of the two which is a deviation from sound teachings.


Edited by SpiritualWarrior (09/16/13 04:28 PM)


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #18850153 - 09/16/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

You really need to go back and read the Gospel (Gr. Good News) again because you obviously missed its meaning.




Quote:

And is the teaching from God or is it from Men?




If you instruct to "Go back and read the gospel" defining it as the basis of truth, you should be posing the above question to yourself.  You shouldn't assume I've even read it.

You misunderstand the separation in its context. It involves spiritual detachment from God and manifestation into physical body.

Separation of spirit from physical body (which you refer to) is the entire point of Jesus' teachings and represents the entire and ultimate goal.  It's as remote from blasphemy as it could possibly be. 

Jesus does not represent full union of body and spirit. He represents the complete unimportance of body and the complete importance of spirit to excel to where spirit is all and all is in union as One.

Quote:

Like I said you can't really understand it without good teachers so who are you listening to?




I'd prefer not to throw a "re-read" back at you, but the answer has already been given.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (09/16/13 05:51 PM)


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OfflineSpiritualWarrior
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18850771 - 09/16/13 07:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

You really need to go back and read the Gospel (Gr. Good News) again because you obviously missed its meaning.




Quote:

And is the teaching from God or is it from Men?




If you instruct to "Go back and read the gospel" defining it as the basis of truth, you should be posing the above question to yourself.  You shouldn't assume I've even read it.

You misunderstand the separation in its context. It involves spiritual detachment from God and manifestation into physical body.

Separation of spirit from physical body (which you refer to) is the entire point of Jesus' teachings and represents the entire and ultimate goal.  It's as remote from blasphemy as it could possibly be. 

Jesus does not represent full union of body and spirit. He represents the complete unimportance of body and the complete importance of spirit to excel to where spirit is all and all is in union as One.

Quote:

Like I said you can't really understand it without good teachers so who are you listening to?




I'd prefer not to throw a "re-read" back at you, but the answer has already been given.





Okay why don't you believe in what St Paul said here about that?

"Beware lest anyone captures you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily"

Collosians 2:8-9 
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

You really need to go back and read the Gospel (Gr. Good News) again because you obviously missed its meaning.




Quote:

And is the teaching from God or is it from Men?




If you instruct to "Go back and read the gospel" defining it as the basis of truth, you should be posing the above question to yourself.  You shouldn't assume I've even read it.

You misunderstand the separation in its context. It involves spiritual detachment from God and manifestation into physical body.

Separation of spirit from physical body (which you refer to) is the entire point of Jesus' teachings and represents the entire and ultimate goal.  It's as remote from blasphemy as it could possibly be. 

Jesus does not represent full union of body and spirit. He represents the complete unimportance of body and the complete importance of spirit to excel to where spirit is all and all is in union as One.

Quote:

Like I said you can't really understand it without good teachers so who are you listening to?




I'd prefer not to throw a "re-read" back at you, but the answer has already been given.




If you've never read the Gospel why call yourself a Christian (and you are a Christian right?). If you're not a Christian though what the hell are you some kind of new age blah blah man?


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #18851108 - 09/16/13 08:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
John 10:30-33 - Jesus answered them, “I and My Father are one.” Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”





I think he was saying that we are all one with god, god is within us, not someone outside of us. (Because that would be an idol, which is another violation of the 10 commandments)

I don't think he thought he was special at all, and he wanted to teach us the love that is already within all of us to find. Gods don't die by stones or crosses afaik,


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Invisibleteknix
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: teknix]
    #18851527 - 09/16/13 09:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I have multiple perspectives to use for looking at Jesus, and if I consider the Christian perspective then I think he must have been Satan, and that is only according to the Christian perspective of Jesus.

Do I really think he was Satan? No, I think he was a bright man if he existed as was teaching many of the same things that others before him had already taught but to a different audience.

The Golden Rules has been said in so many different ways, it has nothing to do with jesus by himself. Love and forgiveness goes with metta and anatta, all which was before Jesus's time.


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Invisiblelessismore
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #18851909 - 09/16/13 11:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

"Jesus does not represent full union of body and spirit. He represents the complete unimportance of body and the complete importance of spirit to excel to where spirit is all and all is in union as One."

Yup
We should love our soul, and appreciate our bodies
our soul is a gift from god

we shouldn't worship our bodies only, flesh and bones, but we should enjoy it while having it
our bodies are the temple of god

the best way to love the soul, which is the most holy gift we have, is to live in gods name


my personal thoughts are that the body we have is a mirror of our souls state, if we love god, we love our body too and appreciate it, for it is the temple of god
appreciate as in care what you put in it, love it etc. (moderation, care for it)
you can know if a person loves god from how they look often
if they don't love themselves  they have lost their connection with god partially/fully


1 Corinthians 3:16 - Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and [that] the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

God manufactured a body for you through the agency of your parents, but God alone manufactured your soul in EP and imputed it to your body at the moment of birth. Therefore the soul is of much more importance.
ROM 9:22


Edited by lessismore (09/17/13 12:40 AM)


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: SpiritualWarrior]
    #18853477 - 09/17/13 01:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
Okay why don't you believe in what St Paul said here about that?

"Beware lest anyone captures you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily"




The message states: Be cautious of the indoctrinated and depend on Jesus as he sees the Holy Spirit with pure vision.  Nothing contriadictory to what I've stated.

"Bodily" simply refers to Jesus being flesh and blood which he was.

The fact that spirit is united with body is the consequence of the separation.  It is not a desired state (by anything but the ego).  You only have the Holy Spirit in yourself because it's a reminant of once was like a stone in the crevice of your shoe after you've been hill walking.

The goal, as stated already is to meld spirit back with the source: God.


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Offlinetreesniper119
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18857256 - 09/18/13 09:56 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I really appreciate david ickes interpretations of where all of these religions originate. (pre sumerian) Serpent worship. Etc...
the majority of words given to describe "God"(s) (often plural) in the old testament or in any ancient writings are synonymous/deriviites of snake/serpent/etc. At the roots of all culture exist this worship. whether you realize it or not. the way youve been taught to pray, the way you end your prayers, the traditions & religious practices.... everyone is brainwashed & prideful & content in their own. slaves to their illusions...the blind leading the blind.


--------------------
Icelander said: I'd like to fund unlimited abortions. Finally some good coming from my tax dollars.

Repetoire89 said: I love abortion and fully condone it - some should make it into a sport.

Treesniper119 said: Any one who is willing to start life & also willing to deny life to their form/seed/child/offspring is cursed.
For you have severed your own cord to lifes worth.
Anyone who condones these actions is cursed as well...



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Invisibleteknix
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #18885089 - 09/24/13 01:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

SpiritualWarrior said:
Okay why don't you believe in what St Paul said here about that?

"Beware lest anyone captures you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily"




The message states: Be cautious of the indoctrinated and depend on Jesus as he sees the Holy Spirit with pure vision.  Nothing contriadictory to what I've stated.

"Bodily" simply refers to Jesus being flesh and blood which he was.

The fact that spirit is united with body is the consequence of the separation.  It is not a desired state (by anything but the ego).  You only have the Holy Spirit in yourself because it's a reminant of once was like a stone in the crevice of your shoe after you've been hill walking.

The goal, as stated already is to meld spirit back with the source: God.




So it says, "Pray to jesus, instead of god, give your soul to him instead of sending it to god."

What was the first Commandment again, and why should it be voided?


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