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Offlinest1llnox
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Psychedelics and hearing voices
    #18845206 - 09/15/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

A friend of mine, who I became quickly acquainted with having been in the hospital with her for a couple weeks, is unfortunately hearing voices and to my knowledge has had no luck with antipsychotic medication to my knowledge (although she just called me; I'm with my dad so I'll get to call her back in about 20 minutes).

The positive features of Schizophrenia are, per the (sloppy) medical consensus, due to excessive dopamine and the negative symptoms are supposedly due to glutamate (maybe even NMDA specifically, if I recall).

"Voices" would be a positive symptom, I would think, but clearly dopamine either isn't the culprit or isn't sufficient.

I wonder if anyone knows could this be related to NMDA?



ALSO, what do you guys think would happen if she took mushrooms? What's the worst that could happen, her hear voices? :wink:



I'm just trying to think of any possible potentially effective treatment for her to look in to. I've seen Haldol flat shut people's voices off acutely in SEVERAL patients, so it seems like dopamine stripping can work but most or all of the antipsychotics are, distractingly, also histaminergic and more imoprtantly are NMDA-ergic (inhibitory, specifically).

I wonder could a more NMDA-focussed medication (I don't want to say Ketamine, but it's having huge success treating depression...) maybe help? It's possible it was the NMDA action making the difference for some or all of those patients that Haldol worked for.

Other than that, I've never seen an antipsychotic actually live up to it's name.


Any thoughts on my friend, especially as it relates to psyches? It was really painful seeing how desperate she was and how badly these voices were affecting her. She even begged me to let her know if it was spirits messing with her she's so desperate to understand and find hope.



BUT maybe she's better now.


Either way, I wonder about psyches effects on psychosis. Can any of you enlighten me?


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: st1llnox]
    #18845256 - 09/15/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Its my humble opinion that pretty much every "drug induced" crazy act (like people who strip naked and climb into heating ducts while high) are likely mentally ill to begin with. I think the shroomery consensus would agree with me.

So I would say its a bad idea. I mean, honestly part of the reason you do drugs is to experience the kind of craziness you see in strange movies and in your imagination but inside your own head. If you feel those every day, why would you want to take something that would just make it more intense? Its a fact that mentally ill people are more likely to hurt themselves while delusional than others, so I'm not trying to suggest she'll go nutso and kill you or something. But why rock the already very unsteady boat, you know?


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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OfflineOneiricOutlier
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: st1llnox]
    #18845259 - 09/15/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Interesting post, I've dealt with friends who have different psychological issues, but never had a friend with schizophrenia. I don't mean to sound close-minded, but psychedelics tend to exacerbate psychological issues/symptoms, so I think it's a bad idea. However, I do feel that not enough research has been done in this area, including the various factors that could be combined with psychedelics in order to treat psychological disorders. Perhaps a smaller dose with the right people might have a positive impact? I'm not a doctor and an amateur scientist at best, so don't take anything I say too seriously.

Antipsychotics are a hit or miss, but for some people they truly help relieve the symptoms, so I wouldn't put them down so quickly. I didn't know about the ketamine/depression relief connection, sounds interesting so I'll look into it. Good luck with your friend.


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Offlinemoi
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: OneiricOutlier]
    #18845287 - 09/15/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

while i cannot answer your question about hallucinogens, i wanna let you know that there is a relatively new strain of cannabis that is actually as effective as antipsychotic pills.

Quote:

In November 2012, an Israeli medical cannabis facility announced a new strain of the plant which has only cannabidiol as an active ingredient, and virtually no THC [...] Recent studies have shown cannabidiol to be as effective as atypical antipsychotics in treating schizophrenia.[8] Studies have shown CBD may reduce schizophrenic symptoms due to its apparent ability to stabilize disrupted or disabled NMDA receptor pathways in the brain




the netherlands have announced to start using this strain to treat schizophrenia.



worth a try


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: moi]
    #18845318 - 09/15/13 04:55 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

bloodsheen said:
Its my humble opinion that pretty much every "drug induced" crazy act (like people who strip naked and climb into heating ducts while high) are likely mentally ill to begin with. I think the shroomery consensus would agree with me.

So I would say its a bad idea. I mean, honestly part of the reason you do drugs is to experience the kind of craziness you see in strange movies and in your imagination but inside your own head. If you feel those every day, why would you want to take something that would just make it more intense? Its a fact that mentally ill people are more likely to hurt themselves while delusional than others, so I'm not trying to suggest she'll go nutso and kill you or something. But why rock the already very unsteady boat, you know?




Oooh, very, very good point. I'm drably sane (relatively) by default, so yeah, for me it's always "Man, it's fun to be crazy!" although it got out of hand with K2.

That's a good point that this could be seen rather than taking someone over to that side, as taking someone already on that side further over there. Still, LSD, for instance, had some startlingly bright results in treating psychotic children in one study I read.

And there comes a point where, well... dopamine blockade isn't working, NMDA inhibition isn't working, ECT isn't working, and frankly, what's the worst that could happen?

The real worst thing though, would be she loses touch with reality permanently and I will only see her in a state hospital. :shudder:

A good and cautioning reply; thank you!

Quote:

OneiricOutlier said:
Interesting post, I've dealt with friends who have different psychological issues, but never had a friend with schizophrenia. I don't mean to sound close-minded, but psychedelics tend to exacerbate psychological issues/symptoms, so I think it's a bad idea. However, I do feel that not enough research has been done in this area, including the various factors that could be combined with psychedelics in order to treat psychological disorders. Perhaps a smaller dose with the right people might have a positive impact? I'm not a doctor and an amateur scientist at best, so don't take anything I say too seriously.

Antipsychotics are a hit or miss, but for some people they truly help relieve the symptoms, so I wouldn't put them down so quickly. I didn't know about the ketamine/depression relief connection, sounds interesting so I'll look into it. Good luck with your friend.




Frankly, I'm better than the average psych ward psychiatrist in my experience (and this isn't bragging about me... it's saying how sad psychiatry is when a philosophy major corrects an MD on which CYP450 enzymes a med will affect, etc.) but not nearly as good as the typical outpatient one, but that's not to say I have any business giving directions or orders. I have given people suggestions to bring up with their doctor that turned out to be helpful though, and I gave my friend Allie an idea that you folks wouldn't want to hear about anyway but THAT SHE WILL BE EXPLORING WITH HER ACTUAL DOCTOR.

I'd normally defer to saying that these drugs could exacerbate symptoms, but there seems to be a new consensus that psyches might not pose mental health risks (sometimes with the caveate, "... in those with no preexisting mental illness", admittedly) and can have benefits. Mescaline's probably the safest but who knows.

There's also a lot to be said in the cases, which have largely long-since been unexplored in any further depth (sometimes for decades) where a drug we consider only as a psychedelic turns out to have been not just a treatment for a life-altering psychotic issue but, in fact, turned out to be the solution.


A small dose with the right people, indeed, if anything. But we don't know if that "if anything" is even nontrivial.

I'll think more about your post.


Quote:

moi said:
while i cannot answer your question about hallucinogens, i wanna let you know that there is a relatively new strain of cannabis that is actually as effective as antipsychotic pills.

Quote:

In November 2012, an Israeli medical cannabis facility announced a new strain of the plant which has only cannabidiol as an active ingredient, and virtually no THC [...] Recent studies have shown cannabidiol to be as effective as atypical antipsychotics in treating schizophrenia.[8] Studies have shown CBD may reduce schizophrenic symptoms due to its apparent ability to stabilize disrupted or disabled NMDA receptor pathways in the brain




the netherlands have announced to start using this strain to treat schizophrenia.



worth a try




THIS THIS THIS. UT Austin just came out that cannibinoids may have MUCH more to do with schizophrenia than dopamine or NMDA turn out to.

Not to mention neuroleptics ROT YOUR FUCKING BRAIN (atrophy it, anyway) so I'd love to see my friend on a safer treatment.


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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OfflineOneiricOutlier
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: moi]
    #18845465 - 09/15/13 05:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

moi said:
Quote:

In November 2012, an Israeli medical cannabis facility announced a new strain of the plant which has only cannabidiol as an active ingredient, and virtually no THC [...] Recent studies have shown cannabidiol to be as effective as atypical antipsychotics in treating schizophrenia.[8] Studies have shown CBD may reduce schizophrenic symptoms due to its apparent ability to stabilize disrupted or disabled NMDA receptor pathways in the brain




the netherlands have announced to start using this strain to treat schizophrenia.




Very interesting, thanks for mentioning.


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: OneiricOutlier]
    #18845542 - 09/15/13 05:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

OneiricOutlier said:
Quote:

moi said:
Quote:

In November 2012, an Israeli medical cannabis facility announced a new strain of the plant which has only cannabidiol as an active ingredient, and virtually no THC [...] Recent studies have shown cannabidiol to be as effective as atypical antipsychotics in treating schizophrenia.[8] Studies have shown CBD may reduce schizophrenic symptoms due to its apparent ability to stabilize disrupted or disabled NMDA receptor pathways in the brain




the netherlands have announced to start using this strain to treat schizophrenia.




Very interesting, thanks for mentioning.



Quote:

OneiricOutlier said:
Quote:

moi said:
Quote:

In November 2012, an Israeli medical cannabis facility announced a new strain of the plant which has only cannabidiol as an active ingredient, and virtually no THC [...] Recent studies have shown cannabidiol to be as effective as atypical antipsychotics in treating schizophrenia.[8] Studies have shown CBD may reduce schizophrenic symptoms due to its apparent ability to stabilize disrupted or disabled NMDA receptor pathways in the brain




the netherlands have announced to start using this strain to treat schizophrenia.




Very interesting, thanks for mentioning.



Quote:

OneiricOutlier said:
Quote:

moi said:
Quote:

In November 2012, an Israeli medical cannabis facility announced a new strain of the plant which has only cannabidiol as an active ingredient, and virtually no THC [...] Recent studies have shown cannabidiol to be as effective as atypical antipsychotics in treating schizophrenia.[8] Studies have shown CBD may reduce schizophrenic symptoms due to its apparent ability to stabilize disrupted or disabled NMDA receptor pathways in the brain




the netherlands have announced to start using this strain to treat schizophrenia.




Very interesting, thanks for mentioning.





Especially relevant since I was largely concerned with her NMDA system, as it didn't seem to be dopamine.

Particularly amusing given our incompetent psychiatry's consensus that weed is sufficient to bring about schizophrenia...


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: st1llnox]
    #18845612 - 09/15/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

This new strain of cannabis sounds interesting. I didn't see that coming.

But let me just say in my experience, and I have schizophrenia, every attempt to use a psychoactive compound has been mixed. Pot was virtually a psychotic break down, while mushrooms were euphoric etc. but became very uncomfortable. MDMA was good but I was going fucking crazy on it and didn't realise; talking utter shit, just generally going way too hard, dancing like a tool.

It's all because my brain isn't able to handle this stuff. However it may be that I was schizophrenic from pot and the other drugs were just amplifications of my already mentally ill mind.

Then again, I took mushrooms recently and found it bizarre, and the next two to three weeks I had a deep, deep unabating depression, despite my schizophrenia seemingly being under control. It was fucked. I couldn't feel anything at all.

It seems that when the brain goes ill like this there is nothing one can take without causing issues, including alcohol. Even caffeine for me is somewhat uncomfortable, in high doses.

My recommendation is to keep her off the stuff. I think it will only make it all worse if my experience is anything to go by.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: circastes]
    #18845691 - 09/15/13 06:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)




This video addresses this new weed. Enjoy :smile:


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: circastes]
    #18845849 - 09/15/13 06:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
This new strain of cannabis sounds interesting. I didn't see that coming.

But let me just say in my experience, and I have schizophrenia, every attempt to use a psychoactive compound has been mixed. Pot was virtually a psychotic break down, while mushrooms were euphoric etc. but became very uncomfortable. MDMA was good but I was going fucking crazy on it and didn't realise; talking utter shit, just generally going way too hard, dancing like a tool.

It's all because my brain isn't able to handle this stuff. However it may be that I was schizophrenic from pot and the other drugs were just amplifications of my already mentally ill mind.

Then again, I took mushrooms recently and found it bizarre, and the next two to three weeks I had a deep, deep unabating depression, despite my schizophrenia seemingly being under control. It was fucked. I couldn't feel anything at all.

It seems that when the brain goes ill like this there is nothing one can take without causing issues, including alcohol. Even caffeine for me is somewhat uncomfortable, in high doses.

My recommendation is to keep her off the stuff. I think it will only make it all worse if my experience is anything to go by.




By no means was I going to necessarily suggest she trip balls, and your account confirms what I was kind of expecting would be the downfall here.

That said, neither do pharms seem to be perfect.

Do you manage with or without the help of medications, if you don't mind me asking?


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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Offlinemoi
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: circastes]
    #18846358 - 09/15/13 09:06 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
This new strain of cannabis sounds interesting. I didn't see that coming.

But let me just say in my experience, and I have schizophrenia, every attempt to use a psychoactive compound has been mixed. Pot was virtually a psychotic break down, while mushrooms were euphoric etc. but became very uncomfortable. MDMA was good but I was going fucking crazy on it and didn't realise; talking utter shit, just generally going way too hard, dancing like a tool.

It's all because my brain isn't able to handle this stuff. However it may be that I was schizophrenic from pot and the other drugs were just amplifications of my already mentally ill mind.

Then again, I took mushrooms recently and found it bizarre, and the next two to three weeks I had a deep, deep unabating depression, despite my schizophrenia seemingly being under control. It was fucked. I couldn't feel anything at all.

It seems that when the brain goes ill like this there is nothing one can take without causing issues, including alcohol. Even caffeine for me is somewhat uncomfortable, in high doses.

My recommendation is to keep her off the stuff. I think it will only make it all worse if my experience is anything to go by.



well, technically it wasnt pot that made you go psychotic, but THC. that new strain has almost no THC at all.


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: st1llnox]
    #18846369 - 09/15/13 09:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I'm on medications and I seem to be recovering quite fast.

I hope in about 3-5 years I can come off the medications. I do suspect they cause a few problems as well as fixing imbalances. The whole brain atrophy thing could be true and there is a cognitive change or slow down I think. But when I take Saphris for example, a sublingual tablet that goes straight into the blood, my head gets waaay clearer, maybe more clear than if I was non-schizophrenic. So it's not all bad.

I'd recommend she just try the new molecules like Saphris.

Unfortunately it will come out that people with schizophrenia in their genes are triggered by any and all of these psychoactives. It won't be much of a hindrance to legalisation as it's only about 1% of the population, but yeah, just so people know; when I smoke cannabis it's a schizophrenic hell, and these other hallucinogens, I'm obviously inviting in schizophrenia with the thought loops and catatonic behaviour.

I never would have known any of that without having picked up the substances.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: circastes]
    #18846373 - 09/15/13 09:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Oh yeah sorry I don't blame pot or drugs, I just blame my genetics. I am careful to not put these things down just because I'm screwed with them.


--------------------
My solitude...
My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: circastes]
    #18846851 - 09/15/13 11:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
I'm on medications and I seem to be recovering quite fast.

I hope in about 3-5 years I can come off the medications. I do suspect they cause a few problems as well as fixing imbalances. The whole brain atrophy thing could be true and there is a cognitive change or slow down I think. But when I take Saphris for example, a sublingual tablet that goes straight into the blood, my head gets waaay clearer, maybe more clear than if I was non-schizophrenic. So it's not all bad.

I'd recommend she just try the new molecules like Saphris.

Unfortunately it will come out that people with schizophrenia in their genes are triggered by any and all of these psychoactives. It won't be much of a hindrance to legalisation as it's only about 1% of the population, but yeah, just so people know; when I smoke cannabis it's a schizophrenic hell, and these other hallucinogens, I'm obviously inviting in schizophrenia with the thought loops and catatonic behaviour.

I never would have known any of that without having picked up the substances.




I will be sure to make sure my friend knows about this risk. Thank you, deeply. A more in-depth reply is warranted whenever I'm not so FUCKING DRUNK lol.


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: st1llnox]
    #18850012 - 09/16/13 04:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I think because psychedelics are so fucking awesome it's very, very hard to come to terms with the fact that you cannot take them. If you are hearing voices, you cannot take them. Even if you're just paranoid, flat affect-like, you're still out of the game.

It's tough. It's like you were a professional sportsman with a sudden injury or something. That's sort of how I feel.

Try to empathise with her, what's she's missing out on, but invite some kind of realistic apprehension of the situation: there's more to life and there will be nothing to life eventually if the schizophrenia/psychosis is continually fueled with brain chemistry perturbations.

The schizophrenics I see in the waiting room at my mental health clinics, man, these people are fucked, their brains are fucked. I'm really lucky and maybe so is your friend... keep it that way...


--------------------
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My shield...
My armour...

TESTED
WITH
FULL
FORCE


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: circastes]
    #18850193 - 09/16/13 05:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
I think because psychedelics are so fucking awesome it's very, very hard to come to terms with the fact that you cannot take them. If you are hearing voices, you cannot take them. Even if you're just paranoid, flat affect-like, you're still out of the game.

It's tough. It's like you were a professional sportsman with a sudden injury or something. That's sort of how I feel.

Try to empathise with her, what's she's missing out on, but invite some kind of realistic apprehension of the situation: there's more to life and there will be nothing to life eventually if the schizophrenia/psychosis is continually fueled with brain chemistry perturbations.

The schizophrenics I see in the waiting room at my mental health clinics, man, these people are fucked, their brains are fucked. I'm really lucky and maybe so is your friend... keep it that way...




She hasn't even ever considered what she's missing out on and I think would have no interest in them unless they could help mitigate her symptoms, particularly the voices.

She is indeed very lucky.

Don't discount how much of those patients' condition is actually iatrogenic, or at least a side effect. That said, many with schizophrenia are not nearly so lucky and I'm glad you're among the ones who are, as well as my friend.


NMDA antagonism though seems like it's the logical thing to look into, and I've long suspected the basis for assuming dopamine is at fault here might be of the sort of fallacious backwards-reasoning that got people thinking that antidepressants fix an organic problem with brain chemistry as opposed to simply do something that happens to help, whatever the cause.


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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OfflineKingKnowledge
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: st1llnox]
    #18850472 - 09/16/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

NMDA site action is usually linked to PCP and the positive-schizophrenic side effects associated if that is any help :smile:


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Offlinebishlap
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #18850542 - 09/16/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I would think it would be a bad idea, I would avoid such a possibly bad situation.

I could imagine a few scenarios that could happen and how they could go instantly bad or lead to highly delusional thoughts extending in to the days or weeks preceding the trip.
I no longer introduce anyone, I dont even talk about tripping unless im trading tripping stories with select people.


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to much, you didn't take enough" -
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There is no soul, only the ego dies.
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: st1llnox]
    #18850594 - 09/16/13 06:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Haven't there been high CBD/low THC strains for a while now?


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OfflineILikeACID
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: bloodsheen]
    #18851229 - 09/16/13 08:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I don't understand why people think that psychedelics can't bring you to a breaking point.

You take a high enough dose and there is no telling what can happen in your mind and how your mind will react.

I have a friend who is completely normal who has lost it quite a few times. He is really light in weight so I'm guessing that has something to do with it.

I've seen this dude ramble on nonsense for hours and had no idea where he was/who he was/ what he was doing. I think sometimes if someone isn't in the greatest state of mind and does a high dose....they get caught up in another world. What happens there is extremely odd and impossible to explain. Thus why even a normal mind would react In an extreme way.

All I'm saying is I know for a fact the people who I've seen strip naked pissing in garages and rambling all kinds of nonsense are still mentally 100% and function well in this society.

If you think it's impossible for someone normal to react like this.....take some more and see what happens. Psychedelics are fucking powerful. Don't underestimate them. It just seems some people have a natural higher tolerance/mind strength to these kind of drugs while others just let the experience take over completely.

Either way it's probably not the best idea for someone who hears voices normally and has been on antipsychotics to take psychedelics. These can and will unleash mental illness to a whole other extent. Definitely do not let her try these.


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: KingKnowledge]
    #18852405 - 09/17/13 05:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KingKnowledge said:
NMDA site action is usually linked to PCP and the positive-schizophrenic side effects associated if that is any help :smile:




Interesting and valuable input, especially as it addresses and abets the notion I had that mainstream psychiatry may be mistaken in thinking dopamine is solely responsible for the positive symptoms.

Thank you SOOO much for that input!


--------------------
Back, bitches.
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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: ILikeACID]
    #18852408 - 09/17/13 05:13 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Gonna chime in and concur with what other people have said:

It's a bad idea to have her try psyhs, even mushies could be too much for her mind to handle.

I don't have schizophrenia, but I've hallucinated voices while tripping that grew louder and louder until my body jolted... I could imagine the same thing would happen to a much higher degree to someone who already hears voices.

Best advice would be to get her to a psychiatrist and at least attempt treatment. Schizophrenia is a possibility here, and you don't want to make it worse.


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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: Saeis]
    #18852413 - 09/17/13 05:20 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Saeis said:
Gonna chime in and concur with what other people have said:

It's a bad idea to have her try psyhs, even mushies could be too much for her mind to handle.

I don't have schizophrenia, but I've hallucinated voices while tripping that grew louder and louder until my body jolted... I could imagine the same thing would happen to a much higher degree to someone who already hears voices.

Best advice would be to get her to a psychiatrist and at least attempt treatment. Schizophrenia is a possibility here, and you don't want to make it worse.




She's already been in treatment for some time. I wasn't suggesting I'd possibly dose her, but I wanted to know (given what I read about LSD treatments for psychotic children in the 60s) if this is a potential last resort option.

Unfortunately, her treatment is failing her so as a few have done before her, she's turned to me for an outside, but well-educated, input.

My hunch about NMDA seems to be very much supported by some of the input here, which though I suspected this I hadn't actually seen before (the evidence supporting this). I've given her a practical suggestion for an adjunct pharmacological agent for the antipsychotic that has at least finally helped her a little bit, but I've told her not to act on this until she has her doctor on board and until he can make sure to monitor the rest of her treatment and general health with respect to my pharmacotherapy suggestion.

Thanks all for your input.


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: st1llnox]
    #18854065 - 09/17/13 03:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

I wouldn't put down the antipsychotics too much. They work for positive symptoms to a degree, then they probably do some atrophy or something, but it's a brain you're trying to fix here, it's not as simple as introduce some molecule and its fixed. The brain is more complex than anything known, it's no surprise we have side effects etc. but those positive symptoms suck so I just take them and wait for the brain to heal, one day I'll be off them but a few years still...


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Re: Psychedelics and hearing voices [Re: circastes]
    #18854824 - 09/17/13 06:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

circastes said:
I wouldn't put down the antipsychotics too much. They work for positive symptoms to a degree, then they probably do some atrophy or something, but it's a brain you're trying to fix here, it's not as simple as introduce some molecule and its fixed. The brain is more complex than anything known, it's no surprise we have side effects etc. but those positive symptoms suck so I just take them and wait for the brain to heal, one day I'll be off them but a few years still...




Hey, I will admit I have large reason to be biased although I do think they're a bit more dangerous than we give them credit for.

If they can improve someone's quality of life, then GREAT!!!

And yeah, they have been shown to atrophy the brain but so has long-term therapeutic amphetamine use. My prescriptions right now? Adderall and Restoril PRN (Benzos too may cause some sort of brain damage, but I won't get in to why I'm taking them right now).

I met a woman in a psych ward who had been on Risperdal for 30+ years, literally, and she was sharp as a tack. She could name off about ever street address she'd ever had occasion to go to in her life, as well as seemed to remember about everyone and their relations to eachother.

She was a little forgetful and rambly, but it was very consistent and she repeated herself enough times that I recognized the more important addresses and people.


I wish you the best of luck, sir! May your treatment go well and I hope that better solutions continue to come out for you and others who are affected, and that you'll be able to successfully transition off of them in due course. :thumbup:


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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