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intelligentlife
Noaidi



Registered: 10/18/10
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Thanks for posts.. I'll update them how they heal over summer.
Quote:
P.Zappatecorum said: Nice write up, I will have to come back and read through from the start. Interesting about the nitrogen burn. Have you ever had etiolation happen due to repotting in a more nutrient rich soil? I had some seedlings in straight horticultural sand and switched them to a sand/rock/soil mix that is still relatively low nutrients but it was quite a lot more nutritious than the straight silica I started them in and they immediately changed shape from nice and flat to tall, sharp pencil tips. This was with no change in light source or temperature.
I usually don't repot plants to rich soil, only using growing medium I have used before..(or even something similar mineral rich mixture of all kind of stuff I have). Because sudden rise of N cause always problems with lophophora, so far it seems stress of plant will totally cause mites to sense them. Anyways, they have been only target to plants I give a shitload of Nitrogen after season was over. Rich soil was ok in dry and cold ~4months, but after first soak at spring time some died some scarred a lot in day or so and scarring stopped but mites seems to be there too as well. This happened only those lophs I give strong fertilized coco coir. Well it wasn't so good call, even tho I think 50% of it wouldn't do a shit, but it did. I knew they don't like I repot them and start watering at spring, but actually few plants don't even have any N-burns, some have clearly scars, not typical to mites. (I mean other plantss I have, not those growing in pictures, scarred ones had already fertilized coco coir, as well as these).
These 3 pots in this thread I used on purpose fertilized coco coir marketed for cannabis cultivation with high NPK. Usually I use non-fertilized to prevent Nitrogen toxicity. Normally I use very low strenght fertilizers adding them via watering.
You may skip some posts, my english haven't been so good, or it's not so good atm anyway. Point is simple; sow seeds to tray with soil you are going to use all their first years. Transplant only if you find out your growing medium isn't proper at all and too damp.
Elongation of lophophora is simple. Either it's too much water or not enough light.
"Too much" water I mean plant never actually shrink much at all before it have got watered again, etc..
I've read trichs may elongate unecessary growth if they are in high N, never heard of peyote about that. IDK how lophs work but Nitrogen is always.... always toxic (at high doses) for plants and otherway, it's perfect fertilizer(with proper doses).
Nitrogen is only compound of fertilizers can actually be very toxic to any plant, even N-loving plants may die to Nitrogen toxicity. Dosage of nitrogen is more important to know when nursing plants than actual Nitrogen itself.
It's the dose what define Nitrogen either toxic or good as fertilizer in that sense.
You can do whatever you want to your seedlings in general. They can be grown in high N, and keep nutes high. They grow fast then.
You can't switch them fast from porous mix to "cannabis grow soil"-type strength new soil. It will cause problems, like you can see.
Anyways, elongation of peyote is kinda hard topic in general. I mean. Overwatering may cause them to look elongated without root rot. They do pretty well in long droughts and I've noticed about plant will go firm few days after watering and will grow in dry soil long time. And ofc, shrinking.. I usually feel and touch my plants to know do or not I water my plants. Also sunny periods effects to my watering cycle over grow season.
I think whole shrinking and plumping up again cause them in habitat to be buried by themselves. Big plant leave big hole, when it's shrinkin it will sink in to own hole till it's plump up again to surface. I mean in habitat.
Temperature have nothing to do much with elongation. If it's not there because you need to get soil dry fast with heat. Otherwise it's "too much" watering. Some even grow peyote at +40C or even +50C day time temps, with high NPK ferts. Best way to get peyote to grow with high ferts is just start them from seed in high fertilizer soil.
As you can see some have done ok even tho, there was relatively high amount of Nitrogen last autumn.
Plants didn't started to have problems when I moved 'em to high N soil. Only after dormant season first watering caused a massive scarring. So they spent several months in high N soil, but not watered. After long time I give 'em drink of water at spring and suddenly I see plants starts to drink, they started to get excess amounts of N as well as they started to drink water.
Coco coir (with ferts in it to cannabis) I used it at 50% strength and as I excpected first watering in new soil caused them to get corky asap. So they was nice and ok months, over winter. And first watering caused them to turn like that in few days.
I have later sown seeds to pure coco coir with same ferts in it. No problems. Seedlings do fine, they are flat and nice, and they have started their life in 200% more NPK in soil than these plants what got burnt from it.
I mean, no matter what plant you have, nitrogen is always toxic. Toxicity of Nitrogen will be determined by dose of N, not actual compound. Nitrogen is actually very good fertilizer but like drugs for human, it can cause overdose for plant and turn from good fertilizer to toxic levels. Even cannabis plants suffer nitrogen burns easy by giving too much at once.
Peyote can be grown in strong N, from seed or button cuttings can be planted to strong N soil/coco and keep on fertilizing. Sometimes fertilizers may cause plant to "burst" open like watering as well may do that. It's possible to get flowering, own root loph in 2-3years if you use strong fertilized soil for them from seed to actual mature cactus. And it need a bit risk with watering.
Some persons who sell peyotes to vendors use fungicides as well every time with watering to make possible to water peyote cactus 2-3times in week. Almost every second day. But those guys who do it have good climate to grow them. I can't use much water here but plant's tell me when they actually even need the water.
Think about, they have massive "barrel of water" underground stored to use when need, even soil is full dry around, they grow..
More less and random your watering is, more you can see it from shape of peyote. I mean potted plants. You can keep adult lophs long time without water and notice how they slowly turn more flat plants.
"water balloons" can be grown my adjusting watering to certain cycle. Out of random watering. Therefore you can get more balloon shape peyote plants.
I would say, if several weeks(months if older plant) long drought doesn't cause your lophs to turn flat, then it's problem of low light levels. But in general, peyote will do well in poor light without etiolation. Compared to many other faster growing columnars for example.
Edited by intelligentlife (05/02/15 08:09 PM)
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: Lemnaminor]
#21627095 - 05/02/15 06:37 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
Lemnaminor said: the one pupping from grow tip is gonna be rad!
That's relatively common behavior of lophophora seedlings btw. Usually happens to smaller seedlings, but seems damage of epidermis have caused it to grow totally new head. I have seen even bigger 3-5cm lophs do new "pup" by actually just growing new head above old button. Very rare behavior it is still to older and more diam. plants.
Edited by intelligentlife (05/02/15 08:17 PM)
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P.Zappatecorum
Lophophilus



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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: intelligentlife]
#21627976 - 05/02/15 10:07 PM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Quote:
intelligentlife said:
Quote:
Lemnaminor said: the one pupping from grow tip is gonna be rad!
That's relatively common behavior of lophophora seedlings btw. Usually happens to smaller seedlings, but seems damage of epidermis have caused it to grow totally new head. I have seen even bigger 3-5cm lophs do new "pup" by actually just growing new head above old button. Very rare behavior it is still to older and more diam. plants.
Yeah, I had one batch where RSM damaged the tips on all the lophs and the all grew new heads, one of them ended up being dichotomous, which was cool. At first I thought it was a crest, but no such luck.
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: P.Zappatecorum]
#21647802 - 05/07/15 06:19 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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There's an example from outdoors how nature behave and how humidity and temperature goes together, but opposite. This is critical with cactus cultivation. Exept temps should be higher than picture show.
Anyway, picture show relatively well how humidity swing as well benefit the cultivation. It happens with temperature swing automatically if air circulation is fine.
This is data from outdoors.
 Sun barely warm up, but still it drops humidity for the day a lot. Numbers at horizontal lline are numbers for hours. This effect cause condensation water outdoors as well.
This is common climate behavior almost everywhere in this planet. So plants like those swings of humidity and temperature what happens on it's own outdoors.
Basically, only you need is temperature measuring and swing and humidity will typically behave then like it should without need to measure it with equipments.
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Control tray picture 05/06/2015, only few weeks younger, non disturbed at all after sow.
Edited by intelligentlife (05/09/15 01:31 PM)
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: intelligentlife]
#21708948 - 05/22/15 02:03 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Update, sunny day, recovering. I watered 'em yesterday.
05/22/2015
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Argyreia
Grafting cacti is awesome



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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: intelligentlife]
#21708978 - 05/22/15 02:26 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Nice work IL. They look healthy. In a few years these horrible scars will be fully outgrown
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Lemnaminor
Lophophora - eyed



Registered: 11/13/13
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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: Argyreia]
#21709267 - 05/22/15 06:27 AM (8 years, 8 months ago) |
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Probably in just 2 years, as that scarred tissue would be underneath the head. anyhow, sometimes a bit of scarring on big lophs gives them a bit of "old" that is not so bad to look at.
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      "The best things in life, come covered in spines."
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: intelligentlife]
#21844682 - 06/23/15 04:29 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Update 06/23/2015
Abused plants, one more died plant to rot. Watered yesterday.

Control container plants. I've watered these early June.
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LSoares
Farmer



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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: intelligentlife]
#21844741 - 06/23/15 05:03 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Man, those are suffering badly from RSM. :\
Z
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: LSoares]
#21845048 - 06/23/15 07:50 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Yea! Thanks for feedback!  I know RSM problem on those. I've not used pesticides for them as well. Actually forgot to use it and I don't like to use much pesticides this time of year because they kill predators I have there.
They are separated from my bigger plants anyway.
I haven't paid attention to those in three clay pots anyway.
Mites likes to attack those bad ones weak plants anyway, not to strong plants.
I don't want to use much pesticides over summer anyway because of fragile native bugs.
Control tray have only fine sandy clay powder on top of them a bit what makes color for them.
Actually I spray'd them with pyrethrin water today. Hope it helps for these on thread.
Most of peyote does great. Flowering, fruiting etc.
Trying to control them by keeping mite RSM infected plants at different windowsill anyway.
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cowsRmeat
Don't step on the MomeRaths



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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: intelligentlife]
#21845197 - 06/23/15 09:01 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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Rosemary oil is another option you can look into, IL.
I've apparently become obsessed with rosemary oil, I find myself recommending it quite a lot nowadays.
-------------------- One day Alice came to a fork in the road and saw a Cheshire cat in a tree. 'Which road do I take?' she asked. 'Where do you want to go?' was his response. 'I don't know', Alice answered. 'Then', said the cat, 'it doesn't matter.'
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: cowsRmeat]
#21845281 - 06/23/15 09:38 AM (8 years, 7 months ago) |
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I know the problem of mites in my garden for these ones, thanks for tip anyway.
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: intelligentlife]
#21946224 - 07/15/15 08:02 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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07/15/2015
I haven't watered them since last time. So it's a bit over 3weeks in dry atm. Gonna water these soon.. I'm just so lazy I don't see reason to water them yet. They look ok, even tho they have mites but few of them seems to recovering well. I still don't know what is williamsii and what is koehresii, but it doesn't matter with these. I want to surprise myself later down the road.. Flowers will tell it, don't know when it's time for them to flower anyway.. They do it when they want. 

Control tray photos, 1,5months without water in baking sun. Shrinking and dehydrated plants. I've never moved these nor paid attention for them. For some reason random seedlings just rotted without any water for a long time. It seems almost like they kill eachothers. Well, whatever it is. Most of these seems fine. I've think to soak these today to water since it's been long time for them without any water. I just took a bit moar pics from these non-disturbed ones, only few weeks younger than thread related plants in clay pots. These are all williamsii, different population mix of seeds I had from one nursery. Relatively good amount of plants alive and I've kept them almost "too dry" and under hot sun.. I don't know why some of these just rot even tho it's been dry soon almost two months.. They don't seems to die to dehydration, simply rotting in dry rocks and coir. Well, it's their destiny.



They look like they need water, soon I can soak 'em for good, but not yet.. Damn these babies endure alot, even tho random plants have just died without a simple reason. It's not over watering anyways. Well it's worth it. I don't need plants can't tolerate conditions here. Funny how they just randomly rot in drough and sunny and near by plants do better. I haven't count the rotten ones, but I estimate about dozen plants have rot during drought. Usually those next to each another, it seems like they kill each another or something.. I don't know. Nature claims it's own it seems.
Should I wait till it's full 2months of dry till I water these in control tray? Or should I water 'em now? ...that's a question I don't know. I know they seriously would like to drink, but then I want to find out how they really behave as hard grown. I think these may plump up a lot when I give water for them. 
That green tray is mostly forgotten ones all of 'em, I barely look after these babies and so far plants I've "taken care of" does worse than plants I don't care at all nor look after them. They could have taken more water but I just don't give it for them yet. They have had once fine mist of water but that's all.
Edited by intelligentlife (07/15/15 08:05 AM)
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Lemnaminor
Lophophora - eyed



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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: intelligentlife]
#21946657 - 07/15/15 10:21 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Give those poor lophs a bit of water!!! XD
Seriously man, i like how you try to test their endurance, but it's not like you are training them to go in expedition to sahara desert, don't you?
--------------------
      "The best things in life, come covered in spines."
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intelligentlife
Noaidi



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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: Lemnaminor]
#21946870 - 07/15/15 11:23 AM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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I want only tough ones. They need to be cold tolerant as well, if not it's dead. Same with drought. It's best when I have only those endure best.

But yea... I'm just waitin they cooldown from bakin sun of whole day till I soak them to water to let 'em drink! Fun to see how big the plump and how fast..

Shit, I've kept few months old yotes in plate in dark like 9months and they even wasn't dead, just looked like old lophs but miniature ones when I check them later. Basically I kept them in bare root near cold floor all over winter and summer and they were alive still. xD
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I soak'd them for you actually just right now. lol. (pic from wet grow medium and wet plants)
Fun to see how surface forms, because coir in the container swollen very fast, and now the plants as well starts to get bigger as they drink. I can take pics later how much they plump up after full soak after 1,5months of drought.

/edit:
35hours now after full soak of water.. it's 8am and sun already shine for them, slowly getting stronger.


Seems water flushed the greyish coloration of dry plants off from skin, with bare eye teir "hue" get's off what developes when plant is in dry for longer time. I haven't seen that gray hue appear to skin of peyote if there isn't dry periods. Or it's very minimal. Atleasy 4-6weeks cause them to react with growing medium to get grey color hue on skin. I've read they react with soil they are in and over dry time it causes grey coloration to skin of lophophora what seems to be just natural. Color haven't changed to same than they were before watering. Before watering from above: by let water run trough plants and growing medium and rest out from holes at bottom. I'm following how they plump up an how fast. I don't know what 1,5months dry does to to roots over grow season. 

I'll check them after weekend how swollen plants they are and take pics, sometimes it take a while to cause dehydrated yote to get full firm and plump up with water.
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07/23/2015, control tray pic, few days after watering. 1,5months of dry before soak.
Edited by intelligentlife (07/23/15 08:05 AM)
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kosmokratorshaman
Cosmic Creator

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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: intelligentlife]
#21947243 - 07/15/15 12:53 PM (8 years, 6 months ago) |
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Quote:
intelligentlife said: I want only tough ones. They need to be cold tolerant as well, if not it's dead. Same with drought. It's best when I have only those endure best.

But yea... I'm just waitin they cooldown from bakin sun of whole day till I soak them to water to let 'em drink! Fun to see how big the plump and how fast..

Shit, I've kept few months old yotes in plate in dark like 9months and they even wasn't dead, just looked like old lophs but miniature ones when I check them later. Basically I kept them in bare root near cold floor all over winter and summer and they were alive still. xD
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I soak'd them for you actually just right now. lol. (pic from wet grow medium and wet plants)
Fun to see how surface forms, because coir in the container swollen very fast, and now the plants as well starts to get bigger as they drink. I can take pics later how much they plump up after full soak after 1,5months of drought.

Ive got three 1-3mm lophs that I planted August 2013. They never took off, never grew. I finally stuck them outside this week and am seeing growth.
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yaltarian
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Re: Lophophora Cultivation from seed to cactus [Re: intelligentlife]
#25196866 - 05/11/18 01:10 AM (5 years, 8 months ago) |
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probably the best long term blog on growing L.W. on the net.
I wonder what is happening to the author in the Arctic Circle and to his/hers cacti
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