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OfflinePDU
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Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong
    #18838616 - 09/13/13 08:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Total layman here.

I live in an older basement suite, although I am not sure of the age but guess it was built in the 60's. Anyways, we have some grounded 3 prong plugs and some 2 prong plugs.

I have powerbars running from the grounded plugs to the locations that i need them, and for the most part it's tidy looking and works well. However, I am wanting to build a study space in an area where there is only 2 prong plugs, and need to plug in my computer which is a 3 prong plug.

I understand that converting to a GFCI plug is the proper route to go, but I am not comfortable enough with electrical to do that, too much liability involved.

According to the internet I can plug this: http://www.amazon.com/Tower-Manufacturing-30340001-2-Wire-Adapter/dp/B002KSKJFG/ref=lh_ni_t?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

into the socket and then use this: http://www.amazon.com/45086-3-Prong-2-Prong-Electrical-Adapter/dp/B00166TT3G/ref=sr_1_1?s=industrial&ie=UTF8&qid=1379125365&sr=1-1&keywords=2+prong+plug+adapter

To change from 2 prong to 3 prong.

I realize this isn't a true fix, and isn't the same as a grounded plug - but it should prevent electrical shocks/electrocution, is this correct? I've read that it could render circuit protection in my powerbar ineffective. Does this mean if there was a surge, it would "fry" my computer?

(FYI, The 2/3 prong adapter is actually not available here in Canada.)


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: PDU]
    #18838712 - 09/13/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Tough to say.  I am always loosing power in my shop from dumb asses crashing cars.  I only have two prongs in the old part of my shop, which is a different service from my new part (I bought two side by side shops).  I've never blown anything out except when a tree took a wire out and the power company snapped my neutral line. 
Any kind of an adapter is just that, an adapter.
I've done every single thing in my own house from jacking up joists to a new roof and everything in the middle.  I am however paying a friend who is an electrician to rewire and update my houses power.  I'm sure I could figure it out (so could you), but I haven't the time.
I don't think just putting gfi in is the true and proper way to do it.  I believe there is more involved.
I think before you buy a bullshit adapter, I'd just use pliers and take the third prong off. Or become friends with an electrician.
Good luck.


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OfflineMHbound
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: azur]
    #18838799 - 09/13/13 09:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

GFCI plugs are not very hard unless you are connecting a LOAD line in order to protect other outlets or lights throughout your house which you would not be doing. I just installed some today as a matter fact.

I would want a 3 prong plug if I had the option though as it will ground the electronics, but if you choose to do what you are talking about add a surge protector to help protect the electronics.

Just so you know if you didn't know a GFCI plug is 3 wires, a white, a black and a green coated or bare copper for ground. Its very simple as long as you flip the breaker.

I know I didn't explain anything in detail but if you have any specific questions feel free to ask.

Edit: I keep thinking about this questions, but you can ground a 2 to 3 prong adapter if you make sure you get one of the adapters with the metal tabs but I don't consider it a "true" ground..Not sure if other people would or not.


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Edited by MHbound (09/13/13 09:17 PM)


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OfflineMHbound
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: MHbound]
    #18838810 - 09/13/13 09:06 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Oh and make sure your surge protector is uninterruptal power supply(UPS) if you choose to go that route.


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Invisibleazur
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: MHbound]
    #18838974 - 09/13/13 09:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Is your house grounded?  I'm guessing yes since you have 2 and 3 prong.  If that is the case, GFCI plug is the way to go.  If it's nit grounded, I would only GFCI the ones you need.


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Invisiblekoraks
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: PDU]
    #18840108 - 09/14/13 05:01 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Whatever you do, make sure you ground that thing. When switching power supplies break, it's usually the buffering caps just behind the rectifier that short, which tends to put 1/2 of the rectified voltage (about 75V assuming 115V AC) on the metal computer case. This can be lethal. GFCI is therefore not a luxury in the case you describe, but an essential safety measure.


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: MHbound]
    #18840559 - 09/14/13 10:08 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MHbound said:
Just so you know if you didn't know a GFCI plug is 3 wires, a white, a black and a green coated or bare copper for ground. Its very simple as long as you flip the breaker.






I understand that, i've wired lights and what not before, and know how to connect the wires to an outlet. However, I think i have aluminum wiring in this house, It's very old and the conduit is breaking apart, it is nasty inside the box and i don't feel comfortable fucking around with it.

Wiring something in a new building is totally different - this place was improperly renovated and i have no idea if it is upto currect electrical code (i suspect it is not.)

So, i'd prefer to use external devices if possible.

I am seeing a variety of responses to this situation. Basically the adapter won't work if the outlet isn't grounded. Since the outlet isn't grounded, what would the gfci accomplish?


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Offliner00tuuu123
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: PDU]
    #18841038 - 09/14/13 12:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If the work was done in the 60s you probably have a grounded system with 3 copper wires so you should have no problem running grounded receptacles and they only cost a few dollars each The ground wires are probably just grounded to the box. Only way to find out is open a box and look at the wiring. Really no need for a gfi unless your in an area with excessive moisture like a bath room or near a sink. Your breaker would kick if you were to get a short or place too much load on it. :themoreyouknow:


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Edited by r00tuuu123 (09/14/13 01:01 PM)


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #18841640 - 09/14/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well, I opened the outlet (junction box) and there is only 2 wires as far as I can tell.

I can't pull the outlet out very much as there is very little slack in the wires.

(just switched off the breaker and pulled it out. It is indeed copper wire - metal junction box - black and white wires.)

Advice?


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Offlinefindingtruth
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: PDU]
    #18841749 - 09/14/13 05:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Can u tell if its a metal box???  If so the ground (bare wire) will be grounded to the box, undo the ground, get extra bare wire and twist the ground (coming from the box) to the extra wire then hook up like a regular recept


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: findingtruth]
    #18841838 - 09/14/13 06:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

It is a metal box - but there are only 2 wires, no "bare" ground.

There is a white wire (neutral) and black wire (hot) ... both running into the wall.


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: PDU]
    #18843760 - 09/15/13 09:05 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

does the metal box have metal conduit running from it encasing the wires?  If so then thats your ground right there.  The small 2 to 3 prong adapters usually have a little metal tab that you screw to the metal box for the ground. Some have a little wire  but you always screw them in to the center of the box where the faceplate screw is.
  Also check the circuit breaker box to see if the conduit is hooked to ground there.


Edited by cpw1971 (09/15/13 09:12 AM)


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OfflineMHbound
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: PDU]
    #18844174 - 09/15/13 11:19 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PDU said:
It is a metal box - but there are only 2 wires, no "bare" ground.

There is a white wire (neutral) and black wire (hot) ... both running into the wall.




If the house is old and uses all metal piping then you can ground a pipe somewhere.

Edit: linked the wrong shit. Let me relink underneath this post. :facepalm:


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Edited by MHbound (09/15/13 12:02 PM)


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: cpw1971]
    #18844529 - 09/15/13 01:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

cpw1971 said:
does the metal box have metal conduit running from it encasing the wires?




No, it's like ... fabric type wire casing. Not sure the material, but definitely not metal conduit.


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: PDU]
    #18844643 - 09/15/13 01:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

You could always run a ground wire. Just make sure it is shorter than the other wires.  Or install a new circuit


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OfflineMHbound
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: cpw1971]
    #18844805 - 09/15/13 02:36 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

A GFI or a GFCI does not need require a ground. A GFCI measures any current difference between the live and neutral wires. If they don't match then the current is going somewhere it isn't supposed to and it trips. It doesn't require a ground to do that.

Some request a ground some have intructions for not using a ground. I would install one of these in place of the current outlet and install a UPS with a battery because they ground themselves inside of the UPS housing.

Edit: a little more explanation, the ground wire is a path for electrical current to return to the ground in case of a short which in the event of a short circuit it would cause the fuse to blow or breaker to trip. The GFCI will measure currents for the only 2 wires you have and if it suspects a short circuit by a voltage surge etc then it will trip anyway preventing shock or damage to you or your electronics.

But like I said use a UPS Batter backup to protect you electronics. I recommend this on a grounded outlet as well.


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Edited by MHbound (09/15/13 02:43 PM)


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Offliner00tuuu123
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: cpw1971]
    #18845411 - 09/15/13 05:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

cpw1971 said:
does the metal box have metal conduit running from it encasing the wires?  If so then thats your ground right there.  The small 2 to 3 prong adapters usually have a little metal tab that you screw to the metal box for the ground. Some have a little wire  but you always screw them in to the center of the box where the faceplate screw is.
  Also check the circuit breaker box to see if the conduit is hooked to ground there.


Op this is probably your simplest solution these adapters are cheap and easy to set up some have a green ground wire that you just screw the faceplate screw through. from what you said I assume your box is your ground you should  be perfectly fine with this method. Though not optimal it beats fishing new wire all over the basement. Good call cpw1971. :thumbup: :manofapproval:


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Invisiblecpw1971
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: r00tuuu123]
    #18845731 - 09/15/13 06:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Not good if his box isn't grounded through conduit to the ground.  Could always run a ground wire to the base of the circuit breaker where the ground connection is.

  you can test for ground with an electrical tester. Just touch one of the probes to one of the hot wires and another to the box.


Edited by cpw1971 (09/15/13 06:28 PM)


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OfflineMHbound
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: cpw1971]
    #18846078 - 09/15/13 07:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

cpw1971 said:
Not good if his box isn't grounded through conduit to the ground.  Could always run a ground wire to the base of the circuit breaker where the ground connection is.

  you can test for ground with an electrical tester. Just touch one of the probes to one of the hot wires and another to the box.




Like this guy said just because his box is metal does not mean it is grounded.


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OfflinePDU
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Re: Converting a 2prong plug to a 3 prong [Re: MHbound]
    #18846278 - 09/15/13 08:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MHbound said:
A GFI or a GFCI does not need require a ground. A GFCI measures any current difference between the live and neutral wires. If they don't match then the current is going somewhere it isn't supposed to and it trips. It doesn't require a ground to do that.

Some request a ground some have intructions for not using a ground. I would install one of these in place of the current outlet and install a UPS with a battery because they ground themselves inside of the UPS housing.

Edit: a little more explanation, the ground wire is a path for electrical current to return to the ground in case of a short which in the event of a short circuit it would cause the fuse to blow or breaker to trip. The GFCI will measure currents for the only 2 wires you have and if it suspects a short circuit by a voltage surge etc then it will trip anyway preventing shock or damage to you or your electronics.

But like I said use a UPS Batter backup to protect you electronics. I recommend this on a grounded outlet as well.




I was under the impression that you couldn't hook up a GFCI without the ground. However, now that you've mentioned this, I looked around on google and have found that you are correct, although it does seem to be a contentious issue.

I can hook up a new outlet no problem. Will go to homedepot tomorrow and let you know how it goes.

What is the UPS batter backup, by the way?

Thanks so much for the discussion everyone!


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