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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: lessismore]
#18811650 - 09/07/13 01:40 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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According to who?
I think you are more worried about your personal perspective than you are considering the perspectives presented. There are more perspective then your own, so humor me and attempt to look from another.
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p-nut
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: teknix]
#18814012 - 09/08/13 03:44 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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In response to the OP; Lovers of The Real will worship The Real in whatever form they are culturally, intellectually and psychologically comfortable with. Likewise lovers of those things directly inverse to realizing The Real will worship what they will. Principles, ideologies and religions are (thankfully?) largely metaphors which people will interpret according to their capacity/nature (intellectual, cultural and psychological).
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Hierophant
Ritualistic Mystic

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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: lessismore]
#18814838 - 09/08/13 11:39 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mio said: There are many people connected with the source/god either partially or almost fully, but we shouldn't worship them, but instead see them as a fellow human being
the potential to connect with god is in everyone of us, when we do things right
they have made mistakes too, like all of us, and learned from them :-)
jesus is just a symbol on a person who is pure, unconditional love
we can learn a lot from that..
Exactly, Yeshua described himself as "the way, the truth and the light" his life was an example of devotion and surrender to a higher spiritual power, he identified completely with the divine aspect within himself and his teachings were an attempt to inspire such a connection in the lives of those who were able to receive his message.
But instead of being inspired to develope their own personal relationship with the divine the majority of Christians deify the messenger and use him as their connection to the divine and will never achieve the same level of Self/God realization that Yeshua embodied.
Yeshua was an enlightened Jew and the social, political and religious atmosphere around him wasnt ready to accept such a position of unity with the divine. He could have just stayed in India but he was compelled to express his revelation to his people, to uplift and revolutionize his mother culture, but his message was so unorthodox and out of alignment with his native spirituality that few were able to understand him, he upset the system and they crucified him but he did inspire change just not in the way he had envisioned.
-------------------- There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18815329 - 09/08/13 01:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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IF, and it's a really big I, Iesous did exist as a single historical figure instead of a purely literary composite of wisdom teachers designed to be the one target of the prophesies in the Tenach, he was never in India. He was a 1st century Judean peasant living in Roman-occupied territory, subject to Jewish puppet-kings who were themselves under Roman rule. The so-called 'missing years' are between age 12 and 30, where some people have fancifully suggested visits to India, Tibet, and other places (see Levi's The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ), as if his abilities were the result of initiations of esoteric schools. Of course, there is no mention of Jesus' b'ris, his bar mitzvah, or his marriage, ostensibly to Miriam called Magdalene. Only a married man was permitted to speak openly in the temple as Jesus was said to have done, so one must extrapolate based on knowledge of ancient Jewish culture. His mission was to the children of Israel, so going to India only makes sense to moderns because it fits with their concept of Jesus as an initiate to mystery traditions there.
The only evidence of Christian evangelism in India, is by way of the apostle Thomas: http://www.manastir-lepavina.org/arhiva/novosti/index.php/engtext/detaljnije/witness_for_an_apostle_the_evidence_for_st_thomas_in_india/ The Gospel of Thomas does have an Indian flavor to its doctrine, which is similar to other Indian philosophies of Self-Realization. There is a marked absence of vicarious sacrificial theology or 'the cross' in Thomas.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Hierophant
Ritualistic Mystic

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Why is the idea of a first century carpenter traveling on trade routes so out of the question?
-------------------- There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.
Edited by Hierophant (09/08/13 02:57 PM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18815711 - 09/08/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hierophant said: Why is the idea of a first century carpenter traveling on trade routes so out of the question?
Hey, anything is possible, but it's all inference. For example, Matthew 13:55 refers to Jesus as "the carpenter's son," but he is not directly named as being a carpenter - ever. Nevertheless, most people infer that like father, like son. It is generally thought that Jesus began his ministry at age 30. By then, he would have been married and would have required a trade. He was not educated as a priest, although people called him "rabbi" which means teacher. Rabbinical Judaism didn't exist yet, it was temple Judaism of which the epicenter was the temple at Jerusalem until the Romans destroyed it in 70 CE. If Jesus wasn't a merchant, and he wasn't independently wealthy or of royal birth, there would have been no purpose for him to have travelled to India, say, by ship. Time and again it has been stated that his mission was to the lost sheep of Israel, the greater majority of whom were right where he was. Bottom line: There is nothing in the canonical Bible, nor in any of the Apocrypha or the Nag Hammadi library that states that Jesus went to India, Tibet, Nepal, Bhutan, or neighboring China.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
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That's sounds like an argument that he was divinely inspired, otherwise how would have have learned what he was teaching?
I mean even if we say he discovered it himself, people would just attribute that to god communicating to him.
The fact is that the things he was teaching were in existence long before he was born, so it seems more likely that he learned it from somewhere.
China and India both have teaching of the love he was preaching of, so that makes me think that's were he got it from.
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: teknix]
#18817389 - 09/08/13 11:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, it was from the Vedic priests who conducted animal sacrifices just like the Jewish priests, so it must have been the Indian and/or Chinese Buddhists you are referring to. Your conjecture is far from original. Higher consciousness does come from within one's experience, it is not learned from others, except intellectually. Iesous, like every human being, was unique. He wrote nothing, so his teachings are based on writings of others. It is what Aldous Huxley called "The Perennial Philosophy." Ancient critics like Celsus pointed out that the Christian teachings were not new. Philo of Alexandria's writings are still available. He would have lived contemporaneously with Iesous. John, who wrote the gospel and revelations obviously used Philo's writings on the Logos (Word) when he penned his Prologue (Pro-Logos) to the Gospel of John, but Iesous himself would not have been so philosophical. That is why John's gospel is the least historically accurate, not to mention the latest (90-120 CE).
People need a human figure to focus on, a frame of reference, without which they become afraid of dissolving into the Emptiness that the Buddhists are quite frank about. God is nothing that one can point to, it is empty of substance and concept, but that hasn't stopped Christianity from developing theologies that are just idolatrous fabrications of purported understanding. The truth is, there is only Mystery, and it should be humbling to surrender to the fact that the Mystery in incomprehensible and awe-inspiring. The Way is nothing to fight for, kill for, convert for. Most people over most of history have remained clueless sinners by virtue of their perverse need to control what others believe. Belief is unnecessary. Faith in love (agapé) yields wisdom. Wisdom is spaciousness of mind, emptiness, letting be.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Hierophant
Ritualistic Mystic

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I feel that the mythologies we create and spiritual systems we develop are a product of our evolving relationship with the Mystery. There is little to no proof that Yeshua was a flesh and blood historical figure, and John Allegro goes as far as to propose that the story of Christ was a cryptic cover for a mushroom inspired cult. All of what we compound into the figure of Yeshua is speculation, whether our own or someone else's that we adopt to create a personalized relationship with the concept itself. Depending on what your relationship is, the idea can inspire, empower and enrich you in your spiritual evolution or it can stunt, inhibit and trap you within a shell of dogmatic belief.
-------------------- There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.
Edited by Hierophant (09/09/13 09:54 AM)
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MarkostheGnostic
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18818999 - 09/09/13 01:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well said.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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Deviate
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18819803 - 09/09/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Hierophant said: Yeshua (Jesus) was and is misunderstood by the majority of people.
This is true.
His teachings and the signifigence of his life and message have been completely distorted by the church,
No they haven't. Jesus came to teach us that God is love and that we can find happiness by loving God with all our heart, mind and soul. That is exactly what the catholic church teaches and it is the truth.
Quote:
Yeshua never claimed to be God, he identified completely with his inherent divinity and attempted to teach others how to connect with their own divinity.
Absolutely untrue. Yeshua certainly did claim to be God.
"anyone who has seen me has seen the Father"
"I and my father are one"
"before Abhraham was, I AM"
Jesus was a God-realized being. That means that unlike us men, he did not suffer from the delusion that he was separated from God. In God, there are no divisions. A perfectly God realized person IS God in human form. You even admit as much in your post, you say that Jesus was completely identidied with his inherent divinity. You are right but you don't seem to understand the implications of that. Being completely identified with God, makes you God. You cannot be fully God realized and not (at least on some level) be God. That would imply division.
Quote:
And speaking of the Gnostic gospels, read the Gospel of Toma (Thomas).
Yeshua said, If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will be your salvation. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you
Also from the gospel:
Yeshua asks his disciples, Make a comparison of me and tell me who I am like.
Shimon Kefa said to him, You are like a righteous angel.
Matai said to him, You are like a wise man of understanding.
Toma said to him, Rabbi, my mouth is unable to say who you are like.
Yeshua said, I am not your Rabbi. Because you are drunk, you are intoxicated from the bubbling spring I have tended.
And he took him and withdrew, and spoke three sayings to him.
When Toma came back to his companions, they asked him, What did Yeshua say to you?
Toma said, If I tell you one of the sayings he spoke to me, you will pick up rocks and stone me and fire will come out of the rocks and consume you.
There is nothing special about the gospel of Thomas, it teaches the exact same thing as the four canonical gospels.
I have noticed that mushroom and acid heads love the gnostic gospels and the more mystical aspects of Christ's teaching. Yes, all that stuff is true but it is no more important than the rest of his teaching. Not everyone is blessed with mystical experiences of union with the divine right off the bat. DOes that mean they are inferior to us who have had such experiences? In my opinion, no. What does Christ teach to non mystics? Righteous living, morality, fairness, love for God and neighbor, prayer, faith, hope, devotion, obedience to the commandments and perseverance. This is what the church has taught for ages and the beauty of this teaching is that it applies to everyone, not just mystics.
If God has blessed you with knowledge of the mystic christ and the inherent beauty, wisdom, goodness and divinity of your own soul, excellent. But do not think that makes you superior to devout Christians who have not yet been granted these graces. They have been given other graces, or they will receive mystical knowledge when God sees fit to reveal it to them.
I will support my assertions with scripture from the book of Job chapter four as Job is complaining about his misfortune, his friend says to him thus:
1 Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,
2 If we assay to commune with thee, wilt thou be grieved? but who can withhold himself from speaking?
3 Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the weak hands.
4 Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
5 But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled.
6 Is not this thy fear, thy confidence, thy hope, and the uprightness of thy ways?
7 Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
Notice he doesnt say when ever did mystics perish but the innocent, the righteous. Jesus taught the path of righteousness. If are we to believe the Bible, then all who keep their conscious clear before God (as St. Paul recommends) and act uprightedly in fear of the Lord (as St. Peter states in the book of acts) are to be saved. They will all come to knowledge of the truth as God sees fit to reveal it to them. Living a holy life, building up every virtue and avoiding vice while humbling oneself before God in love and worship is just as good a spiritual practice as any.
Eating a mushroom and having deep spiritual truths revealed to you that many mainstream christians are unaware of, will profit you but little if you don't practice righteousness in your daily life. I am not saying you are like that, but this seems to me to be a very common affliction among shroomerites.
They have a mystical experience and come to understand some deep spiritual truth and then they think they are superior to "ignorant" mainstream Christians. Obviously there are plenty of ignorant mainstream christians but there are devout ones too and God cares for and looks after these and will see it that they obtain salvation long before mushroom mystics who might possess some advanced spiritual knowledge but do not live their daily lives in accordance with God's laws and commandments.
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Hierophant
Ritualistic Mystic

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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Deviate]
#18821531 - 09/10/13 12:29 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
Hierophant said: Yeshua (Jesus) was and is misunderstood by the majority of people.
This is true.
Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
Hierophant said:
His teachings and the signifigence of his life and message have been completely distorted by the church,
No they haven't. Jesus came to teach us that God is love and that we can find happiness by loving God with all our heart, mind and soul. That is exactly what the catholic church teaches and it is the truth.
I did not single out the catholic church, I used the word "church" as a generalization for the Christain religious institution which deifies and idolizes a human being who was, in my opinion, a Self/God realized mystic but still a human being.
Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
Hierophant said: Yeshua never claimed to be God, he identified completely with his inherent divinity and attempted to teach others how to connect with their own divinity.
Absolutely untrue. Yeshua certainly did claim to be God.
"anyone who has seen me has seen the Father"
"I and my father are one"
"before Abhraham was, I AM"
Jesus was a God-realized being. That means that unlike us men, he did not suffer from the delusion that he was separated from God. In God, there are no divisions. A perfectly God realized person IS God in human form. You even admit as much in your post, you say that Jesus was completely identidied with his inherent divinity. You are right but you don't seem to understand the implications of that. Being completely identified with God, makes you God. You cannot be fully God realized and not (at least on some level) be God. That would imply division.
All of the scriptural quotes you have used only affirm to me my own understanding of Yeshua as being a Self realized individual. Whether or not a Self realized individual constitutes "God incarnate" is dependent on ones definition, if the two terms are used interchangably than there is nothing unique about the figure Yeshua as there have been countless self realized individuals throughout history.
Quote:
Deviate said:
Quote:
Hierophant said: And speaking of the Gnostic gospels, read the Gospel of Toma (Thomas).
Yeshua said, If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will be your salvation. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you
Also from the gospel:
Yeshua asks his disciples, Make a comparison of me and tell me who I am like.
Shimon Kefa said to him, You are like a righteous angel.
Matai said to him, You are like a wise man of understanding.
Toma said to him, Rabbi, my mouth is unable to say who you are like.
Yeshua said, I am not your Rabbi. Because you are drunk, you are intoxicated from the bubbling spring I have tended.
And he took him and withdrew, and spoke three sayings to him.
When Toma came back to his companions, they asked him, What did Yeshua say to you?
Toma said, If I tell you one of the sayings he spoke to me, you will pick up rocks and stone me and fire will come out of the rocks and consume you.
There is nothing special about the gospel of Thomas, it teaches the exact same thing as the four canonical gospels.
No it doesnt, it portrays a figure quite different than the one portrayed in the canonical gospels which, in my opinion, is exactly what makes it important.
Quote:
Deviate said: I have noticed that mushroom and acid heads love the gnostic gospels and the more mystical aspects of Christ's teaching. Yes, all that stuff is true but it is no more important than the rest of his teaching. Not everyone is blessed with mystical experiences of union with the divine right off the bat. DOes that mean they are inferior to us who have had such experiences? In my opinion, no. What does Christ teach to non mystics? Righteous living, morality, fairness, love for God and neighbor, prayer, faith, hope, devotion, obedience to the commandments and perseverance. This is what the church has taught for ages and the beauty of this teaching is that it applies to everyone, not just mystics.
If God has blessed you with knowledge of the mystic christ and the inherent beauty, wisdom, goodness and divinity of your own soul, excellent. But do not think that makes you superior to devout Christians who have not yet been granted these graces. They have been given other graces, or they will receive mystical knowledge when God sees fit to reveal it to them.
I will support my assertions with scripture from the book of Job chapter four as Job is complaining about his misfortune, his friend says to him thus:
1 Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,
2 If we assay to commune with thee, wilt thou be grieved? but who can withhold himself from speaking?
3 Behold, thou hast instructed many, and thou hast strengthened the weak hands.
4 Thy words have upholden him that was falling, and thou hast strengthened the feeble knees.
5 But now it is come upon thee, and thou faintest; it toucheth thee, and thou art troubled.
6 Is not this thy fear, thy confidence, thy hope, and the uprightness of thy ways?
7 Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? or where were the righteous cut off?
8 Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
9 By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.
Notice he doesnt say when ever did mystics perish but the innocent, the righteous. Jesus taught the path of righteousness. If are we to believe the Bible, then all who keep their conscious clear before God (as St. Paul recommends) and act uprightedly in fear of the Lord (as St. Peter states in the book of acts) are to be saved. They will all come to knowledge of the truth as God sees fit to reveal it to them. Living a holy life, building up every virtue and avoiding vice while humbling oneself before God in love and worship is just as good a spiritual practice as any.
Eating a mushroom and having deep spiritual truths revealed to you that many mainstream christians are unaware of, will profit you but little if you don't practice righteousness in your daily life. I am not saying you are like that, but this seems to me to be a very common affliction among shroomerites.
They have a mystical experience and come to understand some deep spiritual truth and then they think they are superior to "ignorant" mainstream Christians. Obviously there are plenty of ignorant mainstream christians but there are devout ones too and God cares for and looks after these and will see it that they obtain salvation long before mushroom mystics who might possess some advanced spiritual knowledge but do not live their daily lives in accordance with God's laws and commandments.
You seem to be under the unwarranted impression that I have a superiority complex and view people with a different understanding than my own as lesser than myself which is not the case. Perhaps due to your emotinal connection to the subject matter, you are transferring attitudes you have previously encountered with others onto me because of some commonalities between their words and mine.
I do not view myself as superior to others and nothing I have said suggests so. If there is anything that my experiences have taught me it is humility and compassion in light of the awareness that there is no "other" there only exists varying levels of identification, realization and experience of the supreme Self. I hope you can understand and respect my perspective without feeling threatened and reacting defensively. In truth all we defend is an idea whether personal or collective in origin which our egoic mind struggles to sustain and reinforce.
Edited by Hierophant (09/10/13 01:03 AM)
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Deviate
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18821641 - 09/10/13 01:13 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ok it appears we are in total agreement and I reacted hastily and in a way that was unwarranted. I apologize.
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Deviate
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Deviate]
#18822268 - 09/10/13 07:20 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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In what way do you think Jesus was different in the Gospel of thomas?
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Hierophant
Ritualistic Mystic

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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Deviate]
#18822856 - 09/10/13 10:42 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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No worries, we're both passionate about the subject matter, I enjoy discussing and sharing perspectives with others regarding spirituality and I feel like everyone benefits from these discussions in one way or another.
The Gospel of Thomas is different in that it is not a narrative gospel but a collection of sayings attributed to the figure Yeshua that contain hidden wisdom of which the reader must discover for oneself to attain a level of self knowledge.
The Gospel begins,
"These are the sayings that the living Yeshua spoke and Yehuda Toma the twin recorded.
1) And he said, Whoever discovers what these sayings mean will not taste death.
2) Yeshua said, Seek and do not stop seeking until you find. When you find, you will be troubled. When you are troubled, you will marvel and rule over all.
3) Yeshua said, If your leaders tell you, "Look, the kingdom is in heaven," then the birds of heaven precede you. If they say to you, "It is in the sea," then the fish will precede you. But the kingdom is inside and outside of you. When you know yourselves, then you will be known, and you will understand that you are children of the living father. But if you do not know yourselves, then you dwell in poverty and you are poverty"
The Gospel continues in this manner for its entirety and displays some sayings and parables that appear in other Gospels but nowhere in the Gospel of Thomas does Yeshua place himself above another man. There is no reference of him being titled "Christ" or "Messiah" or "Lord." He is not claimed to be the incarnate "son of God." He is called "Rabbi" but denounces the title in a quote I previously posted. These differences are what set the Gospel of Thomas apart from the canonical Gospels. It displays a wise but humble man offering his understanding of the divine reality to his band. Not God incarnate or even the son of God but a man no different in substance than you or I.
-------------------- There is a golden book kept in my heart and guarded by my soul, written in Divine Light and bound with the veins of the Earth.
Edited by Hierophant (09/10/13 10:56 AM)
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Hierophant
Ritualistic Mystic

Registered: 03/28/13
Posts: 942
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18822999 - 09/10/13 11:20 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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On another note, I think you raised an important point in your earlier post.
A divine or mystical experience is of little worth unless it creates a change in character or shift in behavior that is in congruence with love, compassion and the unity of being. Without this shift the individual has made no movement or growth in the direction of the divine. They have simply had an experience which in no way makes them special. It is true, that many who have profound spiritual experiences, whether psychedelic, yogic, or meditative in origin, often cling to these experiences, deeming them an achievement, something to be proud of which only reinforces a sense of distinction and adds to the egoic sense of self ultimately leading one in the opposite direction of the realization of the supreme Self.
Edited by Hierophant (09/10/13 09:22 PM)
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teknix
𓂀⟁𓅢𓍝𓅃𓊰𓉡 𓁼𓆗⨻



Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18842849 - 09/14/13 11:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm not seeing anywhere in the bible where it says even once, that Jesus claim to be god, in fact it appears to be the opposite, because he was often talking to god.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: Hierophant]
#18842871 - 09/14/13 11:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Peace is on earth we just have to notice it, appreciate what we have
peace comes from within and to everyone around you, when you accept gods love
Know thyself
very good quote you had there :-)
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omegafaust
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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: lessismore]
#18843015 - 09/15/13 12:20 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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How can someone quote scripture as fact?
Can we get some proof that Jesus actually existed even? I can find none.
how can you argue the spirituality of someone or something if it never existed?
Creating an idol just allows people to instill their own feelings into them, allowing limitless venues of spiritual ideas.
-------------------- The Universe has an interesting sense of irony, in that you are the universe experiencing itself. All you are is a thought.
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder



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Re: What if Jesus was really Satan? [Re: teknix]
#18843115 - 09/15/13 01:17 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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The author John equated Iesous to the Logos, which is translated in English as "Word.'' The capitalization of it suggested a second aspect to God in the 2nd century, and the Holy Spirit suggested a third aspect by the 3rd century. Tertullian coined the word trinity. But Logos derives from the Hellenistic Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria, who wrote a lot about the Logos. John borrowed some of this for his Prologue (Pro-Logos) to the gospel of John. Philo got his ideas from Neo-Platonism where the Logos, called 'Nous,' is the first Being that emanates from non-Being, the Unmanifested. This idea turned into the Father (Unmanifest) and the (Manifest) Son. Neo-Platonism has the 'World Soul' (Anima) emanate in turn from Nous. In Christian theology this became the Holy Spirit. But Iesous the Christ according to John (not the other 3 gospel authors) was 'God clothed with flesh,' the incarnation of God. Mark, Matthew and Luke considered Iesous 'a man anointed by God.' Huge difference. Yet, John's idea tainted most Christian's understanding, and they bought into Iesous as a demigod straight out of classic Greek mythology.
-------------------- γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself
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