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Offlinestpedro75
Mr. Dr. Cpt. Sgnt.
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Registered: 12/20/12
Posts: 163
Last seen: 5 years, 6 months
Paradox
    #18841442 - 09/14/13 03:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Why did God create anything at all? if at first it was just him (and had only been him for eternity) than creating anything else could only make things worse. And if he's perfect then he couldn't have been bored or lonely so doesn't it automatically make him less perfect once he makes something else? So pass on that question lets just say God works in mysterious ways that we can't always understand so we can move on. One day out of the blue he creates angels. If the reason that humans commit sin is that satan tempts us then why would lucifer have rebelled against God? There was nothing to tempt him it was only God and angels created to worship him so how did lucifer even get the idea in his head to rebel?


--------------------
hopelessness is a lie


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InvisibleSleepwalker
Overshoes

Registered: 05/07/08
Posts: 5,503
Re: Paradox [Re: stpedro75]
    #18841589 - 09/14/13 04:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Paradox is easily solved if there is no god.


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OfflineMahananda


Registered: 08/18/12
Posts: 117
Last seen: 2 years, 2 months
Re: Paradox [Re: Sleepwalker]
    #18842272 - 09/14/13 08:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

What happens when Pinocchio says, 'My nose will grow now'?

Paradoxes are great :smile:


--------------------
Come, come, whoever you are.
Wanderer, worshiper, lover of living, it doesn't matter
Ours is not a caravan of despair.
Come even if you have broken your vow a thousand times,
Come, yet again, come, come


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Offlinemouldycrumpet
Stranger
Registered: 08/05/13
Posts: 4
Last seen: 10 years, 4 months
Re: Paradox [Re: Mahananda] * 1
    #18842425 - 09/14/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

The best explanation I have read regarding your question was from a section of the book "Conversations with god"

in this book The reason for existence was explained and regardless if true or not it made perfect sense to me. Please bear in mind what your about to read is between God and the writer of the book so there's a back and fourth 2 way conversation. I have put bold on the text which are spoken by god to make it easier to follow. my apologies for the length buts its necessary. I would appreciate any feedback on whats written below.

"Let’s start here. The soul—your soul—knows all there is to know all the time. There’s nothing hidden to it, nothing unknown. Yet knowing is not enough. The soul seeks to experience. You can know yourself to be generous, but unless you do something which displays generosity, you have nothing but a concept. You can know yourself to be kind, but unless you do someone a kindness, you have nothing but an idea about yourself. It is your soul’s only desire to turn its grandest concept about itself into its greatest experience. Until concept becomes experience, all there is, is speculation.

I have been speculating about Myself for a long time. Longer than you and I could collectively remember. Longer than the age of this universe times the age of the universe. You see, then, how young is—how new is—My experience of Myself!

You’ve lost me again. Your experience of Yourself?

Yes. Let me explain it to you this way:
In the beginning, that which Is, is all there was, and there was nothing else. Yet All That Is could not know itself—because All That Is , is all there was, and there was nothing else. And so, All That Is.. .was not. For in the absence of something else, All That Is, is not.

This is the great Is/Not Is to which mystics have referred from the beginning of time. Now All That Is knew it was all there was—but this was not enough, for it could only know its utter magnificence conceptually, not experientially. Yet the experience of itself is that for which it longed, for it wanted to know what it felt like to be so magnificent. Still, this was impossible, because the very term “magnificent” is a relative term. All That Is could not know what it felt like to be magnificent unless that which is not showed up. In the absence of that which is not, that which IS, is not.

Do you understand this?


I think so. Keep going.

All right.

The one thing that All That Is knew is that there was nothing else. And so It could, and would, never know Itself from a reference point outside of Itself. Such a point did not exist. Only one reference point existed, and that was the single place within. The “Is-Not Is.” The Am-Not Am.
Still, the All of Everything chose to know Itself experientially. This energy—this pure, unseen, unheard, unobserved, and therefore unknown-by-anyone else energy—chose to experience Itself as the utter magnificence It was. In order to do this, It realized It would have to use a reference point within.


It reasoned, quite correctly, that any portion of Itself would necessarily have to be less than the whole, and that if It thus simply divided Itself into portions, each portion, being less than the whole, could look back on the rest of Itself and see magnificence. And so All That Is divided Itself—becoming, in one glorious moment, that which is this, and that which is that. For the first time, this and that  existed, quite apart from each other. And still, both existed simultaneously. As did all that was neither. Thus, three elements suddenly existed: that which is here. That which is there. And that which is neither here nor there—but which must exist for here and there to exist. It is the nothing which holds the everything. It is the non-space which holds the space. It is the all which holds the parts.

Can you understand this?

Are you following this?


I think I am, actually. Believe it or not, you have used such a clear illustration that I think I’m actually understanding this.

I’m going to go further. Now this nothing which holds the everything is what some people call God. Yet that is not accurate, either, for it suggests that there is something God is not—
namely, everything that is not “nothing.” But I am All Things—seen and unseen—so this description of Me as the Great Unseen—the No-Thing, or the Space Between, an essentially Eastern mystical definition of God, is no more accurate than the essentially Western practical description of God as all that is seen. Those who believe that God is All That Is and All That Is Not, are those whose understanding is correct.

Now in creating that which is “here” and that which is “there,” God made it possible for God to know Itself. In the moment of this great explosion from within, God created relativity—the greatest gift God ever gave to Itself. Thus, relationships the greatest gift God ever gave to you, a point to be discussed in detail later.

From the No-Thing thus sprang the Everything—a spiritual event entirely consistent, incidentally, with what your scientists call The Big Bang theory. As the elements of all raced forth, time was created, for a thing was first here, then it was there—and the period it took to get from here to there was measurable. just as the parts of Itself which are seen began to define themselves, “relative” to each other, so, too, did the parts which are unseen.

God knew that for love to exist—and to know itself as pure love—its exact opposite had to exist as well. So God voluntarily created the great polarity—the absolute opposite of love—
everything that love is not—what is now called fear. In the moment fear existed, love could exist as a thing that could be experienced.


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OfflinePEROXIDE
The Cobweb Killer
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Registered: 10/15/12
Posts: 124
Loc: UK
Last seen: 10 years, 2 months
Re: Paradox [Re: mouldycrumpet]
    #18849085 - 09/16/13 01:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)


Awesome


--------------------
I say made up things in forums just to feel cool.  Everything I say is rubbish.


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InvisibleAlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist
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Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
Re: Paradox [Re: stpedro75]
    #18850243 - 09/16/13 05:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

No god, or all god. Paradox becomes bridgeable by simply considering both sides. One can realize this by recognizing the relativity in our language syntax.
All and none, everywhere and nowhere, everything and nothing, they are identical in a way that they do not define a certain discernible something—some thing.

God is not something, and therefore is neither he or she, and not even an it. We've only made a noun of a problem in our minds that bugs us, namely the nature of not knowing. It's a probleming of some sorts.

However only if you allow it, and accept your state as such, can this probleming flower into any other verb you wish. Beautifying, horrifying, it's essentially our choice.

At the end of the day, time goes on.

So it's okay to surrender to all, with open senses and a sharp mind.

Language can be a sticky trap though. A lot of code is malware, and in a lot of ways god could be seen as spam.
Be wary of the eternal noun disguising itself as the process of creation itself.

Create something now, and feel everything around you. It's only a communion with yourself—and that's everything.


--------------------


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InvisiblePocketLady
 User Gallery


Registered: 01/18/10
Posts: 1,773
Re: Paradox [Re: mouldycrumpet]
    #18852317 - 09/17/13 03:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mouldycrumpet said:
The best explanation I have read regarding your question was from a section of the book "Conversations with god"

in this book The reason for existence was explained and regardless if true or not it made perfect sense to me. Please bear in mind what your about to read is between God and the writer of the book so there's a back and fourth 2 way conversation. I have put bold on the text which are spoken by god to make it easier to follow. my apologies for the length buts its necessary. I would appreciate any feedback on whats written below.

"Let’s start here. The soul—your soul—knows all there is to know all the time. There’s nothing hidden to it, nothing unknown. Yet knowing is not enough. The soul seeks to experience. You can know yourself to be generous, but unless you do something which displays generosity, you have nothing but a concept. You can know yourself to be kind, but unless you do someone a kindness, you have nothing but an idea about yourself. It is your soul’s only desire to turn its grandest concept about itself into its greatest experience. Until concept becomes experience, all there is, is speculation.

I have been speculating about Myself for a long time. Longer than you and I could collectively remember. Longer than the age of this universe times the age of the universe. You see, then, how young is—how new is—My experience of Myself!

You’ve lost me again. Your experience of Yourself?

Yes. Let me explain it to you this way:
In the beginning, that which Is, is all there was, and there was nothing else. Yet All That Is could not know itself—because All That Is , is all there was, and there was nothing else. And so, All That Is.. .was not. For in the absence of something else, All That Is, is not.

This is the great Is/Not Is to which mystics have referred from the beginning of time. Now All That Is knew it was all there was—but this was not enough, for it could only know its utter magnificence conceptually, not experientially. Yet the experience of itself is that for which it longed, for it wanted to know what it felt like to be so magnificent. Still, this was impossible, because the very term “magnificent” is a relative term. All That Is could not know what it felt like to be magnificent unless that which is not showed up. In the absence of that which is not, that which IS, is not.

Do you understand this?


I think so. Keep going.

All right.

The one thing that All That Is knew is that there was nothing else. And so It could, and would, never know Itself from a reference point outside of Itself. Such a point did not exist. Only one reference point existed, and that was the single place within. The “Is-Not Is.” The Am-Not Am.
Still, the All of Everything chose to know Itself experientially. This energy—this pure, unseen, unheard, unobserved, and therefore unknown-by-anyone else energy—chose to experience Itself as the utter magnificence It was. In order to do this, It realized It would have to use a reference point within.


It reasoned, quite correctly, that any portion of Itself would necessarily have to be less than the whole, and that if It thus simply divided Itself into portions, each portion, being less than the whole, could look back on the rest of Itself and see magnificence. And so All That Is divided Itself—becoming, in one glorious moment, that which is this, and that which is that. For the first time, this and that  existed, quite apart from each other. And still, both existed simultaneously. As did all that was neither. Thus, three elements suddenly existed: that which is here. That which is there. And that which is neither here nor there—but which must exist for here and there to exist. It is the nothing which holds the everything. It is the non-space which holds the space. It is the all which holds the parts.

Can you understand this?

Are you following this?


I think I am, actually. Believe it or not, you have used such a clear illustration that I think I’m actually understanding this.

I’m going to go further. Now this nothing which holds the everything is what some people call God. Yet that is not accurate, either, for it suggests that there is something God is not—
namely, everything that is not “nothing.” But I am All Things—seen and unseen—so this description of Me as the Great Unseen—the No-Thing, or the Space Between, an essentially Eastern mystical definition of God, is no more accurate than the essentially Western practical description of God as all that is seen. Those who believe that God is All That Is and All That Is Not, are those whose understanding is correct.

Now in creating that which is “here” and that which is “there,” God made it possible for God to know Itself. In the moment of this great explosion from within, God created relativity—the greatest gift God ever gave to Itself. Thus, relationships the greatest gift God ever gave to you, a point to be discussed in detail later.

From the No-Thing thus sprang the Everything—a spiritual event entirely consistent, incidentally, with what your scientists call The Big Bang theory. As the elements of all raced forth, time was created, for a thing was first here, then it was there—and the period it took to get from here to there was measurable. just as the parts of Itself which are seen began to define themselves, “relative” to each other, so, too, did the parts which are unseen.

God knew that for love to exist—and to know itself as pure love—its exact opposite had to exist as well. So God voluntarily created the great polarity—the absolute opposite of love—
everything that love is not—what is now called fear. In the moment fear existed, love could exist as a thing that could be experienced.





:heart:


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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