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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
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Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug?
#18839198 - 09/13/13 10:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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From being repeatedly traumatized for hours upon hours during a bad trip, or something like that?
It would be interesting to see the worst cases of after effects ever...
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: s240779]
#18839220 - 09/13/13 10:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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If it's a drug that the CIA developed, sure. If it's one of the naturally occurring benign psychedelics, no fucking way. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#18839231 - 09/13/13 10:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PrimalSoup said: If it's one of the naturally occurring benign psychedelics, no fucking way. 
No psychedelic is benign. You can find reports of people committing suicide and homicide on what you speak of, for example.
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pureenergy13
fitting right in there


Registered: 08/09/11
Posts: 442
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: s240779]
#18839276 - 09/13/13 11:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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JacksonMetaller
Stranger

Registered: 03/13/11
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: pureenergy13]
#18840160 - 09/14/13 06:09 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've had this feeling before. But so far I'm no vegetable. I'll have to wait and see what everyone else says. But of course vegetables aren't going to post on the shroomery
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rikuni

Registered: 04/06/10
Posts: 982
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: s240779]
#18840171 - 09/14/13 06:20 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said: From being repeatedly traumatized for hours upon hours during a bad trip, or something like that?
It would be interesting to see the worst cases of after effects ever...
Yes, take enough RC shit and you might make it happen
The good news is that I dont think you can make it happen with shrooms, dmt or mescaline, weed... I stay away from this other stuff anyways and would recommend others the same
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Grateful Dead
A Growing Ambivalence



Registered: 11/19/12
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Loc: Parked Car, Playing NPR
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: rikuni]
#18840520 - 09/14/13 09:45 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Unless its on some kind of RC I doubt it, No matter how bad a trip is the worst thing that can happy is you just go nuts for a few months, but to land yourself into a persistent vegetative state it would have to require brain trama, but I'm sure there have been people who have took to much, went kinda nuts and just spend a week or two lying down or something, but as far as staying that way forever I really doubt it, but everyone is different, so who knows
-------------------- Life begins on the other side of despair...
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HarryL
Squnä'am



Registered: 11/16/10
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: Grateful Dead]
#18840622 - 09/14/13 10:32 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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In 30 plus years of experience and knowing hundreds of people who have done psychedelics, have never known or even heard of anyone being put into a coma or vegetative state. Ever.
As far as I am concerned, only people with mental problems after psychedelics drug use, have had mental problems before psychedelic drug use...
I believe in tripping responsibly... And tripping for a reason... Use Set and Setting and listen to your inner voice as to If you should trip or not...
They are strong medicine as we would say back in the rez
Just my 2 cents
Peace
-------------------- Mushroom hunting: One bad mushroom can ruin your day! Know it or throw it.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: s240779]
#18847726 - 09/16/13 05:28 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
No psychedelic is benign. You can find reports of people committing suicide and homicide on what you speak of, for example.
Bullshit. You don't know "what I speak of."
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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themusicofzann
Meta-Ubermensch



Registered: 02/27/13
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#18848452 - 09/16/13 10:43 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Eat nine grams of shrooms and tell me it is benign.
I dont think classic psyches can make you catatonic. the one time i was with someone who was tripping waaay to hard he wasnt sitting still he was jumping up and down.
Dissos might make it hard to move, but not because you are traumatized, but because you are dissociated from your arms and legs.
Want to be catatonic? try sleep deprivation or deleriants.
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    The above is hypothetical, when it is illegal. Psychedelics are performance enhancers for the philosopher. Knowledge and wisdom are one and the same.
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: themusicofzann]
#18850460 - 09/16/13 06:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Eat nine grams of shrooms and tell me it is benign.
More of the same. Read about toxicity. The meaning of "benign" in this case is that IT WON'T KILL YOU OR SCREW YOU UP FOREVER. Nothing more. Whatever hell you might go through on your own personal journey through your messy subconscious is merely temporary. You can up the usual dosage considerably, but there are limits to the effects, in that you WILL pass out, and return again after your liver pumps out the toxin, not much the worse for wear. I've done it. End of story.
There ARE drugs that are classified as psychedelics that have very strong potential for permanent brain damage and for which the damaging dose is very close to what could be termed the "recreational" dose. They aren't benign. Hence the distinction.
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
Edited by PrimalSoup (09/16/13 06:17 PM)
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
Last seen: 2 months, 9 days
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: PrimalSoup]
#19090340 - 11/05/13 02:08 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't think toxicity applies. Don't psychedelics potentiate our electrical activity in the brain, thus allowing for traumatic thoughts to reach untold heights, possibly leading to brain damage. In other words, the psychological turns into the physical, via a series of intimate actions.
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lessismore
Registered: 02/10/13
Posts: 6,268
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: s240779]
#19090371 - 11/05/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said: From being repeatedly traumatized for hours upon hours during a bad trip, or something like that?
It would be interesting to see the worst cases of after effects ever...
One bad trip is all it takes if its bad enough
Same with lucid dreaming... a bad sleep paralysis can scar you for life, and you can lucid dream without drugs when you dream... My worst sleep paralysis was much worse than my worst acid trip, remember it like yesterday, its 15 years ago
The damages might not be obvious but they will be hidden within your psyche
You never know what it might change
Its more likely it will make you lose the love for yourself, and therefore for life too that is the soul
But anything traumatic can make you forget yourself
So you may be a zombie, living as something that isnt you, possibly doing things you would never do normally
Damaged psyche is the risk
Schizophrenia is a risk to some... that can be pretty vegetative, so Id say yes its a risk most people dont get schizo though, only in the trip
As with any drug, the benefits should outweigh the side effects, which psychedelics usually do for most people - many satisfied users, myself incl, I was more vegetative before I used them than after
They can make you remember who you are and what your real values in life are
Edited by lessismore (11/05/13 02:23 PM)
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: s240779]
#19090384 - 11/05/13 02:22 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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No, maybe. There have been cases where people have accidentally done 1000x+ a dose of LSD. They ended up in a coma state while their body processed the excess drug, but they eventually came out of it. The shroom dose required to do something similar is astronomical, as in like 9 lbs not 9 grams (guestimate, not exact). An MAOI could greatly reduce this, but would also cause its own damage. Classic Psychs are pretty safe! RCs like NBOMe seem to reach lethal limits before inducing a coma.
(Note: Feeling run down and zombied is not the same as a persistent vegetative state. Vegetative states are where the body appears to be alive but doesn't react to most outside stimulus, like say a pin prick or hot iron.)
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s240779

Registered: 12/07/10
Posts: 12,880
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: StygianKnight]
#19090403 - 11/05/13 02:28 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
StygianKnight said: No, maybe. There have been cases where people have accidentally done 1000x+ a dose of LSD. They ended up in a coma state while their body processed the excess drug, but they eventually came out of it.
I'm not talking about dose toxicity. I'm talking about psychological trauma of great volume -- which is possible even on a common dose.
If you look at the following post of mine, you'll see that I do not doubt that the toxic dose of certain psychedelic drugs is extremely high (meaning such drugs are very safe from a dosage standpoint): http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showthreaded.php/Number/18708410/vc/1
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GreySatyr
Pagan-Psyche


Registered: 06/20/13
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: s240779]
#19090481 - 11/05/13 02:41 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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It can happen but it doesn't.
Sorta like anything is possible but you'll never see me fly unless the right conditions are met, for instance being on another planet with no gravity. Gotta be under the right conditions and those conditions are infinitesimal. If you believe that you can teleport RIGHT NOW with no experience or thoughts within science or ANYTHING then you can believe that you'll be a vegetable from psychedelics. In other words, if you lack common sense then yes but ultimately the answer is NO, it won't ever happen. You'll always recover unless you're weak as hell mentally.
-------------------- ...also, go to hell, huh?
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healing
Strangest



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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: s240779]
#19090566 - 11/05/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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themusicofzann said: Eat nine grams of shrooms and tell me it is benign.
I know many people who have eaten much more than nine grams of mushrooms. None of them have become a vegetable. There are many people who take heroic doses on this site. I've never read of any of them experiencing brain damage. In fact, some people find very high doses of psychedelics to be pleasurable.
Being a vegetable and being catatonic are two very different things, by the way.
Quote:
Da2ra said: Don't psychedelics potentiate our electrical activity in the brain...
No. They bind to specific receptors in the brain, causing a cascade of neurochemical reactions. "Potentiation of electrical activity." is a nonsense phrase you just invented.
Quote:
Da2ra said: Thus allowing for traumatic thoughts to reach untold heights, possibly leading to brain damage?
No. A psychedelic experience can be very intense, but that doesn't mean that it gives your brain the ability to harm itself through thought alone.
-------------------- Open mind, open heart, open book.
Edited by healing (11/05/13 02:59 PM)
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G_rambo
Strange Hobo


Registered: 04/20/13
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: s240779]
#19090990 - 11/05/13 04:26 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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If it did happen tho... You would be one of the happiest vegetables out there
-------------------- Theres a thin line between sanity and insanity... and I just snorted it
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PrimalSoup
hyperspatial illuminations



Registered: 11/17/09
Posts: 13,568
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 5 months
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: s240779]
#19091097 - 11/05/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said: I don't think toxicity applies. Don't psychedelics potentiate our electrical activity in the brain, thus allowing for traumatic thoughts to reach untold heights, possibly leading to brain damage. In other words, the psychological turns into the physical, via a series of intimate actions.
No. You can't think yourself to death. The brain just shuts itself off in the face of complete disruption, like you might expect. 
PS
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if you stand too close to the machine it'll start to eat youPrimal's simple tested teks and projects: Wheat Prep 2.0 Acidic Tea Tek Potency Project!
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StygianKnight
A Mushroom

Registered: 03/12/12
Posts: 2,717
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Re: Do you think it's possible to wind up in a persistent vegetative state from a psychedelic drug? [Re: s240779]
#19091216 - 11/05/13 05:12 PM (10 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Da2ra said: I'm talking about psychological trauma of great volume
No. It's certainly possible to have a bad trip, or to have it bring up bad thoughts during the trip, but none of this will anymore lead to psychological trauma than say a non-drug induced depressive episode, dream, etc. Most of these drugs aren't doing anything that the brain can't do on its own in the right conditions.
As far as 'electrical potential' that sounds similar to a seizure, and while mixed with other drugs classic psychs could up the likelihood of having a seizure (which is always there even for sober healthy folks) a singular seizure event is not harmful or damaging beyond the physical dangers of falling and smacking your face on something.
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