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InvisibleAmphibolos
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Consciousness would rise from quantum processes
    #18837375 - 09/13/13 03:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Consciousness is more than computation


I read an article in IO9 and i found it pretty interesting.


I have yet to listen to the full podcast. But so far, the points releved seem nice.


Enjoy


--------------------


"Homo sum ; humani nihil a me alienum puto"


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Offlinej_db69
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Re: Consciousness would rise from quantum processes [Re: Amphibolos]
    #18845600 - 09/15/13 06:03 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

you sure got my neurons firing more quickly :smile:

I do believe if you had a TRUE quantum "computer" that it would indeed be conscious(ness)  but the quantum computers that are being built/designed will NOT become conscious.

Consciousness looks, to me, to be more of a Mandelbrot set.

thanks for the link, another piece of an infinite puzzle fell into place :sun:


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One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the dark conscious.
--Jung


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Offlinehidenseek1
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Re: Consciousness would rise from quantum processes [Re: j_db69]
    #18848094 - 09/16/13 08:32 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

science newb here

if a quantum copute gained consciousness or a.i.

would it be able to operate at a quantum level like being able to play with worholes or move through solid objects?


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You can drink at 7 A.M., because the Beastie Boys fought for that right
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Offlinej_db69
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Re: Consciousness would rise from quantum processes [Re: hidenseek1]
    #18850262 - 09/16/13 05:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

A really good point was brought up in the link that OP posted, artificial INTELLIGENCE is not = artificial CONSCIOUSNESS.  It will only be able to perform functions that it was programmed to do.  The examples they used were of computers that first beat a human at chess, then the one that beat the human at jeopardy.  It does not mean that we are getting "closer" to consciousness, only closer to mimic a human.

For the question, IMO, if those things are indeed possible on a quantum level, then a quantum computer would be able to perform those functions.

How do we build a computer that performs something that we do not even understand?  A good question to ask, is what would happen if we were able to bring about consciousness...  What does OP say?


--------------------
One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the dark conscious.
--Jung


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OfflineFun-Gee
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Re: Consciousness would rise from quantum processes [Re: j_db69]
    #18867218 - 09/20/13 11:22 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

We know so little yet about what consciousness is and how it occurs in nature to fully understand it yet. Science is making good progress. But I do think its theoretical possible to program something that has an experience of it self and feels conscious. How deterministic our own mind is is still a philosophical debate mostly. But there is good reason to assert that consciousness comes from chemistry and chemistry do work after certain physical principles, I have no reason yet to think our consciousness is a supernatural phenomena. 'So yeah I think its possible and not far fetched. And maybe not that far into the future either.


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Offlinetripp23
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Re: Consciousness would rise from quantum processes [Re: j_db69]
    #18872586 - 09/21/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

j_db69 said:
A really good point was brought up in the link that OP posted, artificial INTELLIGENCE is not = artificial CONSCIOUSNESS.  It will only be able to perform functions that it was programmed to do.  The examples they used were of computers that first beat a human at chess, then the one that beat the human at jeopardy.  It does not mean that we are getting "closer" to consciousness, only closer to mimic a human.

For the question, IMO, if those things are indeed possible on a quantum level, then a quantum computer would be able to perform those functions.

How do we build a computer that performs something that we do not even understand?  A good question to ask, is what would happen if we were able to bring about consciousness...  What does OP say?




but really. we could just be artificial intelligent.  we were all "programmed" our "natural instincts".  That's what's hardwired into us from birth.  Take a dog for example, all they know is what the universe gave them (programmed).  If you teach them something then your *programming* them in a sense.  Thats where we need to be with computers.  If a system can be taught simply.. a task, then we got it. and if a computer can learn from trail and error.. it may be conscious of its self but then again.. what is consciousness. not a single person can define it. i sure as hell can't

The more I think about it tho, the more I believe our brains to be some sort of super computer.  we just dont know enough about it yet.

truthfully, i dont believe we ever will.


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Offlinecircastes
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Re: Consciousness would rise from quantum processes [Re: tripp23]
    #18879251 - 09/23/13 04:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Eventually you have to notice that consciousness is all there is, it's all a superimposition on consciousness, everything. Science will eventually have to come around to this fact.


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Invisibletribesman
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Re: Consciousness would rise from quantum processes [Re: circastes]
    #18888066 - 09/25/13 07:17 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.ted.com/talks/john_searle_our_shared_condition_consciousness.html

I just Watched this last night, it may add another facet to the thread.

Quote:

circastes said:
Eventually you have to notice that consciousness is all there is, it's all a superimposition on consciousness, everything. Science will eventually have to come around to this fact.





Hey Circastes, do you have any ideas relating to our evolution from plants, or how consciousness emerged from the DNA of seemingly non sentient organisms? I'm interested in whether consciousness has been inherent, or packed away as potential all along.


--------------------
" No permanence is ours; we are a wave
That flows to fit whatever form it finds:
Through night or day, cathedral or the cave
We pass forever, craving form that binds."

~ Hermann Hesse, The Glass Bead Game


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InvisibleAmphibolos
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Re: Consciousness would rise from quantum processes [Re: tribesman]
    #18888332 - 09/25/13 08:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well, we never really came from plants, we have a common ancestror, but its pretty far back.

I see consciousness as an emergent property of matter, like, given enough neuronal complexity, its something that emerge.

Its not written in the DNA, what is written in it is only the code to build a human, its not the code to build yourself as an entity.


--------------------


"Homo sum ; humani nihil a me alienum puto"


Edited by Amphibolos (09/25/13 08:54 AM)


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Invisibletribesman
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Re: Consciousness would rise from quantum processes [Re: Amphibolos]
    #18888421 - 09/25/13 09:15 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Though it is correct to say non sentient organisms adapted through evolution into
Conscious organisms?

This article says that consciousness is written into DNA:

http://old.richarddawkins.net/articles/1057-consciousness-comes-from-dna


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Offlinepmoseman
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Re: Consciousness would rise from quantum processes [Re: tribesman]
    #18888558 - 09/25/13 10:01 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Consciosness
Quote:

tribesman said:
http://www.ted.com/talks/john_searle_our_shared_condition_consciousness.html

I just Watched this last night, it may add another facet to the thread.

Quote:

circastes said:
Eventually you have to notice that consciousness is all there is, it's all a superimposition on consciousness, everything. Science will eventually have to come around to this fact.





Hey Circastes, do you have any ideas relating to our evolution from plants, or how consciousness emerged from the DNA of seemingly non sentient organisms? I'm interested in whether consciousness has been inherent, or packed away as potential all along.



It looks as though we did evolve from sea sponges, not plants.
Quote:

tribesman said:
Though it is correct to say non sentient organisms adapted through evolution into
Conscious organisms?

This article says that consciousness is written into DNA:

http://old.richarddawkins.net/articles/1057-consciousness-comes-from-dna



Is consciousness required to deal with fire? What is the purpose of consciousness?


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Offlinej_db69
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Re: Consciousness would rise from quantum processes [Re: pmoseman]
    #18890179 - 09/25/13 04:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

It seems more to unfold than to emerge.  B/c if it emerges then we should be able to build a lattice of some sort (brain) and it become conscious.  But that is the problem, building a structure that has no base or foundation in the sense of a building block.  Which of the "levels" do you use to build it? b/c there is another level below that one and so on.

How will we "measure" it, to know that it is conscious?

Just as quantum processes cannot be directly observed, we may never be able to know.  The only thing that would make "sense" is if it were something that has always been.  Just a point in the cycle, no beginning nor end.


--------------------
One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the dark conscious.
--Jung


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Invisiblecycline
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Re: Consciousness would rise from quantum processes [Re: j_db69]
    #18890235 - 09/25/13 04:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

We are actually a quantum mechanical beings. Our minds don't work by common aristoteles logic , but under quantum logic principle. This alouds for brain to solve the problems so it gets the answer for all the possible solutions by one operation.


--------------------
β€œTo see a world in a grain of sand,
And a heaven in a wildflower;
Hold infinity in the palm of your hand,
And eternity in an hour.”

β€” Auguries of Innocence, William Blake


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Offlinepmoseman
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Re: Consciousness would rise from quantum processes [Re: cycline]
    #18893099 - 09/26/13 08:37 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

There a trillions of archea each working to keep you alive. They upon the Earth, the Earth upon emptiness. Each of them will to keep going and keep our consciousness going, unaware of eachother, constructed out of bits on analogy and sitting upon nothing.


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