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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18836942 - 09/13/13 01:10 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
But hasn't most of the advice been stick with what works? Or to not bother with it at all? That's how I see it. It doesn't matter if it wasn't intended, because that is how I am taking it.

Experience is fine, but I haven't heard anyone's experience with what I'm doing. So if you are offering experience in growing and not creating new substrate. I have looked into what makes the substrate you all use so great and compared it to the nutrients that is in the fungi already. It all makes sense to me. But I admit that I am bad at explaining.

So, everyone, I am sorry. You don't have to forgive me. My meds make me unbalanced. I am on 9 uppers and 4 downers at all times, so I am unbalanced. Some days are better then others for me. If I get set off, I go.




Why would you not want to stick with what works? I don't get it. I mean we're not talking about building rockets here! We're just growing some fungus! K.I.S.S.


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OfflineShahal Rainrix
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Registered: 09/07/13
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Stromrider]
    #18836989 - 09/13/13 01:27 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

psillyshroomer said:
Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
But hasn't most of the advice been stick with what works? Or to not bother with it at all? That's how I see it. It doesn't matter if it wasn't intended, because that is how I am taking it.

Experience is fine, but I haven't heard anyone's experience with what I'm doing. So if you are offering experience in growing and not creating new substrate. I have looked into what makes the substrate you all use so great and compared it to the nutrients that is in the fungi already. It all makes sense to me. But I admit that I am bad at explaining.

So, everyone, I am sorry. You don't have to forgive me. My meds make me unbalanced. I am on 9 uppers and 4 downers at all times, so I am unbalanced. Some days are better then others for me. If I get set off, I go.




Why would you not want to stick with what works? I don't get it. I mean we're not talking about building rockets here! We're just growing some fungus! K.I.S.S.



I kept typing this up and retyping it, I hope this answer is good enough.

I don't like the box and I've never been in it. I'm weird and strange and I always look for a new way to do things. Like kandy, the bracelets ravers wear. I made a bracelet with a fully poseable scorpion on it. When I give one of these to someone, they go crazy and play with it all night and show it off. I can even make a cuff fuzz by rapping each bead with pipe cleaner. No has ever said they seen it before. So that is how I think.

Regardless if its broken or not. You can still get creative. Isn't that why some of you take shrooms? To go beyond, to open your mind, to get out of the box?


Edited by Shahal Rainrix (09/13/13 01:30 PM)


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18837005 - 09/13/13 01:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe you missed my reply. Here it is:

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
It's ok man.

We haven't told you our experience with what you are doing because we have no experience with using ingredients such as the ones you listed here.

Having never grown a cube before, you should probably get your feet wet before you get all crazy.

Not only that but if you have successfully grown gourmets or medicinals, you should be able to grasp that simpler is better sometimes.

Extremely nutritious substrate is not used very often because it causes more problems than solutions.

It does not directly relate to your yield in the way you think.

We're not discouraging you from trying, we are giving you an honest opinion that we don't think it will work.  You can have great success without trying to reinvent the wheel on your first magic mushroom grow.

We don't want you to grow a bunch of mold :thumbup:




--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflineShahal Rainrix
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Registered: 09/07/13
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Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Substrate Question [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18837083 - 09/13/13 01:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Maybe you missed my reply. Here it is:

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
It's ok man.

We haven't told you our experience with what you are doing because we have no experience with using ingredients such as the ones you listed here.

Having never grown a cube before, you should probably get your feet wet before you get all crazy.

Not only that but if you have successfully grown gourmets or medicinals, you should be able to grasp that simpler is better sometimes.

Extremely nutritious substrate is not used very often because it causes more problems than solutions.

It does not directly relate to your yield in the way you think.

We're not discouraging you from trying, we are giving you an honest opinion that we don't think it will work.  You can have great success without trying to reinvent the wheel on your first magic mushroom grow.

We don't want you to grow a bunch of mold :thumbup:






But I never said that I was going to grow with my substrate right away. Some of you keep saying that I'm trying to reinvent the wheel when I'm only drawing up plans for a tire. I do in fact plan to grow with coco coir or brf.

I looked around at all substrate and their nutrients. Then I compared them to whats in mushrooms already, you are what you eat. So is it really so crazy to think that the reason shrooms like coco coir is because of phosphorous and potassium when brf hardly has either but is higher in carbohydrates, fat and other thing?

Fungi feed on nutrients. It should make sense that more nutrients means more food for fungi. Why wouldn't it?


Edited by Shahal Rainrix (09/13/13 02:02 PM)


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18837102 - 09/13/13 02:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Because that is true for plants, but not so much mushrooms.

A lot of gourmet species like oysters will mutate and be unpresentable with extremely high nutrient levels. That is why you have to limit your amount of supplementation for your sawdust. For example, if I add more than a half cup of wheat bran per large sawdust bag, all I get are ugly mushrooms I cannot sell to chefs.

The long standing theory for myself and others is that mushrooms want decaying organic material to grow on and a healthy reservoir of water. They want proper fruiting conditions for their species.

And just like with plants, you can "over-feed" them. You wouldn't want to overfertilize your garden, nor do you want to pack tons of nutrition into your substrate.

There are more reasons too. If you'd like I can continue?


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18837118 - 09/13/13 02:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Simple sugars, carbs, and trace minerals. Complex subs are great such as coir/verm/straw/poo. But its not going to relate like growing weed and adding a super fertilizer.

To throw in my 2cents I recently completed a grow with a clone and I used a good deal of baby formula to hydrate some coir with. If you can think of something more nutritionally complete than baby formula you're one up on me.

Anywho, no real difference could be told in flush nor potency. Point is experimenting is fine, but do it in baby steps.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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OfflineShahal Rainrix
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18837133 - 09/13/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Now that was the first real helpful info I got on why it won't work. It was better then, it'll be contaminated. But it can be fixed. Also, are the ugly oysters anything but ugly?


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Invisiblemaddchef
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: maddchef]
    #18837146 - 09/13/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Sometimes limiting nutrients is more beneficial as frank said. Some have even encouraged more rhizomorphic growth by limiting nutes such as with agar. Case in point of easily overpacking a sub with nutrients can be found by looking at grows using perlite or rezz effect.

Myc will produce fruitbodies if even once pretty much without a substrate ie feuiting on perlite.
So if myc will flush once on an inate sub, even getting 3 flushes is most likely not using up all the nutrients in a sub, the myc just ends its life cycle.


--------------------
In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.

All mushrooms are edible, but some only once.....                     

                                        Easier than cakes

I do science and shit.

:havesomescience:


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InvisibleSkinty
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Posts: 1,150
Re: Substrate Question [Re: maddchef]
    #18837164 - 09/13/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I'm no expert but I also wonder if myc might have less imperative to fruit if it is in a super nutrient environment. Fruiting is a survival strategy / reproductive strategy - if the myc's too happy it might just sit on it's ass. Just a thought :thumbup:


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OfflineShahal Rainrix
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: maddchef]
    #18837175 - 09/13/13 02:21 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

There are other ways to go. I and find a ways to time release or make it denser in some areas more then others. I know, I'll make it like cake! That'll make the name I have in mind make more sense.


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Offlinejonnymushroom
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18837196 - 09/13/13 02:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I've used milk but sometimes adding all that stuff like that is asking for trouble.  Using milk it made the colonization much faster but failure was also high when I did the testn.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18837203 - 09/13/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
Now that was the first real helpful info I got on why it won't work. It was better then, it'll be contaminated. But it can be fixed. Also, are the ugly oysters anything but ugly?




I mean, they are edible. Sometimes they get tough/chewy. They don't look so good though, nor is the yield anything to write home about. I wish I took some pictures, I have not experimented with supplementation of my sawdust in quite some time.

The other big reason to bear in mind is that competitor molds are enemy number one.

If you are going to make a highly nutritious substrate, you are going to want to sterilize it. Then you will need to use good sterile technique in front of a flow hood or in a still air box when you inoculate it.

(note to shroomery members: proper use of bold text, here it is emphasizing a main point)

Most all of us like to avoid this where we can. We like to spawn to bulk in open air with minimal precaution.

When you spawn to your bulk substrate in open air, you are introducing a plethora of crap just waiting for a chance to grow. By pasteurizing low-nutrient bulk substrate, we can ensure that our healthy culture colonizes it quickly.

If you are to spawn to a highly-nutritious, pasteurized bulk substrate in open air, all the crap that lands in there will have a much easier time finding a place to call home. That ruins all your work. I don't know about you, I fucking hate having all of my work ruined.

I recommend trying these things out but definitely also try out some tried-n-true methods so you can have something to compare them to.

Also I do apologize for jumping down your throat earlier, our previous interaction left a bad taste in my mouth.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


Edited by FrankHorrigan (09/13/13 02:37 PM)


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OfflineShahal Rainrix
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Registered: 09/07/13
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Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Substrate Question [Re: jonnymushroom]
    #18837213 - 09/13/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

That's not a list of what I'm adding. I could have made a much longer list. But I felt those are good possibilities. I didn't list pumpkin seed. But that is at the top of my list.


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OfflineShahal Rainrix
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Registered: 09/07/13
Posts: 49
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Substrate Question [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18837238 - 09/13/13 02:43 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
Now that was the first real helpful info I got on why it won't work. It was better then, it'll be contaminated. But it can be fixed. Also, are the ugly oysters anything but ugly?




I mean, they are edible. Sometimes they get tough/chewy. They don't look so good though, nor is the yield anything to write home about. I wish I took some pictures, I have not experimented with supplementation of my sawdust in quite some time.

The other big reason to bear in mind is that competitor molds are enemy number one.

If you are going to make a highly nutritious substrate, you are going to want to sterilize it. Then you will need to use good sterile technique in front of a flow hood or in a still air box when you inoculate it.

(note to shroomery members: proper use of bold text, here it is emphasizing a main point)

Most all of us like to avoid this where we can. We like to spawn to bulk in open air with minimal precaution.

When you spawn to your bulk substrate in open air, you are introducing a plethora of crap just waiting for a chance to grow. By pasteurizing low-nutrient bulk substrate, we can ensure that our healthy culture colonizes it quickly.

If you are to spawn to a highly-nutritious, pasteurized bulk substrate in open air, all the crap that lands in there will have a much easier time finding a place to call home. That ruins all your work. I don't know about you, I fucking hate having all of my work ruined.

I recommend trying these things out but definitely also try out some tried-n-true methods so you can have something to compare them to.

Also I do apologize for jumping down your throat earlier, our previous interaction left a bad taste in my mouth.



That was some helpful info. I'm mostly gathering info like this. My substrate won't be ready for months after I start growing. I will take small steps because I won't learn a thing by trying it all in one go. I have a lot of food to test and things to buy. But when I am done, I'll enjoy it.

It's okay. I have a hard time getting along with people when I can't see their face. So 50/50 and the other people didn't help calm things.


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InvisibleSkinty
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18837256 - 09/13/13 02:48 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Sorry to jump in here and maybe I missed something but I get that you are trying to formulate the most nutritious shroom substrate but I'm not sure why and to what end?

Edited as told off by psillyshroomer :frown:


Edited by Skinty (09/13/13 02:56 PM)


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OfflineStromriderM
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Skinty]
    #18837279 - 09/13/13 02:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Just read the thread skinty


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OfflineShahal Rainrix
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Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Substrate Question [Re: Skinty]
    #18837285 - 09/13/13 02:56 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Skinty said:
Sorry to jump in here and maybe I missed something but I get that you are trying to formulate the most nutritious shroom substrate but I'm not sure why and to what end?



Well I want a larger yield among other thing. There are some nutrients that fungi can't make on their own. I'm hoping to bring them up a few levels. In the end I want a longer lasting cake and I'm hoping for the unexpected. But I don't feel like I'm doing anything special here. I found one website that claims to have the best substrate on the net and I'm sure most of it is because of bee pollen.


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InvisibleFrankHorrigan
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18837294 - 09/13/13 02:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
Well I want a larger yield among other thing. There are some nutrients that fungi can't make on their own. I'm hoping to bring them up a few levels. In the end I want a longer lasting cake and I'm hoping for the unexpected. But I don't feel like I'm doing anything special here. I found one website that claims to have the best substrate on the net and I'm sure most of it is because of bee pollen.




The lifespan of the cake has less to do with nutrients and more to do with senescence IMO. It just gets old.

Just be real careful when you are reading about mushroom cultivating around the web...especially when people are trying to sell you a product. They talk so much shit. And it's almost always 100% bullshit, taking advantage of people's lack of knowledge on the subject. I find that to be disgusting.


--------------------

Yes, you can bump my old threads with a question.
Here is how I get things done.
You should take a look. :hehehe:


Frank's tips and tricks. Updated on 3/21/14
AMU- Get an answer here -AMU


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OfflineShahal Rainrix
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Registered: 09/07/13
Posts: 49
Last seen: 10 years, 3 months
Re: Substrate Question [Re: FrankHorrigan]
    #18837313 - 09/13/13 03:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:

Shahal Rainrix said:
Well I want a larger yield among other thing. There are some nutrients that fungi can't make on their own. I'm hoping to bring them up a few levels. In the end I want a longer lasting cake and I'm hoping for the unexpected. But I don't feel like I'm doing anything special here. I found one website that claims to have the best substrate on the net and I'm sure most of it is because of bee pollen.




The lifespan of the cake has less to do with nutrients and more to do with senescence IMO. It just gets old.

Just be real careful when you are reading about mushroom cultivating around the web...especially when people are trying to sell you a product. They talk so much shit. And it's almost always 100% bullshit, taking advantage of people's lack of knowledge on the subject. I find that to be disgusting.





That is the site I learned it from. But the bee pollen makes sence, they also use worm cast which I know grows mold like crazy from when I used to raise my own bait.


Edited by Shahal Rainrix (09/13/13 03:12 PM)


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Offlinejonnymushroom
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Re: Substrate Question [Re: Shahal Rainrix]
    #18837318 - 09/13/13 03:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well its fun to try.


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