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Invisiblegopener
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Registered: 06/16/13
Posts: 512
Re: grow light for cactus to summer over winter [Re: anne halonium]
    #18993760 - 10/18/13 12:18 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

7k lumens for 98W, is great ratio!!!:cool:


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InvisiblecArcace-x
YeAh!!
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Registered: 10/17/13
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Re: grow light for cactus to summer over winter [Re: gopener]
    #18994260 - 10/18/13 06:35 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

it is a really good ratio! and look at these blackstar 135W.... :laugh:

<SNIP>
LED look great!


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Edited by Mostly_Harmless (10/18/13 06:41 AM)


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OfflineHighZenBerg
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Registered: 10/18/13
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Re: grow light for cactus to summer over winter [Re: cArcace-x]
    #18995898 - 10/18/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

i asked this question to a person that has grown lophs for over 20 years.  his answer was DO NOT DO IT!  lophs have a dormancy cycle that is natural.  when you disturb this cycle you get pissed off plants the next growing season that wont flower as often and irregular growth.  also some of your alkaloids are made during this dormancy period.  he grows with natural light and a large property to do so, and through his years hes found its best to just leave them alone and winter them every year.  without the wintering periods i imagine that theyll continue to grow, but the long term affects are not something to scoff at. mine winter in the garage with a shop light on 12/12 and ambient temps.  i would recommend the sun blaze t5 grow lights, you can "daisey chain" a few together and get some serious light for your plants.  heres some of the plant i got from my friend, 2x 16 year old williamsii and 2x 8 year old caespitosas, never grafted.



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Offlineintelligentlife
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Registered: 10/18/10
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Re: grow light for cactus to summer over winter [Re: HighZenBerg]
    #19004470 - 10/20/13 03:39 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I would use LED but I have not seen they are worth of a money and instead their light intensity is not so effective than HPS/MH bulbs.

Ofc HPS/MH eat electric and also generate heat, but so far they are best light to grow cactus columns. Because I have no sun almost half of the year, trust me I have test LOTS of different lights for cactus.. Nothing beats HPS/MH bulb combination and light spectrum they generate together. also the heat is good for cactus from light as long as these are kept enough far away.

I have example to these lights for one bulb.

250W = 30cm(~1 foot from top of the plant)
400W = 60cm (~2 foot)
600W = 90cm (~3 foot) [best lux/wattage from 600W bulb]
1000W = 120cm (~4 foot)

If used small bulbs and many at same time, they don't generate so much heat than one bigger bulb. Also lux amount drop if used more bulbs but smaller of them. Also they can be kept close.

Anyway, HPS/MH easily burn the tip of cactus and it's similar to frost bite damage. Air circulation is okay for that..

These lights are not need to peyote or some another slow growers even HPS light will cause peyote to flower cause of heat with light.. These bulbs can burn peyote.

For trichocereus these are perfect with combination of two MH and HPS.. In general, if you want fat nice trichocereus indoors, use both bulbs and as much power as possible. Same lights are used to grow good cannabis plant harvest.. Lots of plants love these lights and I use commercial greenhouse bulbs. There is still some cacti what doesn't need so intensive and effective light than these lights.

Also cause I live in arctic and there is lots of commercial greenhouses, also public big greenhouse gardens use just similar lights to imitate sun over winter or grow crop all year round. For the record, these still should be more far away from cactus than too close cause these burn the plants, any plant you can imagine burn fast from these light bulbs... Some plants just love the heat similar to sun generates and these gives also heat for plants.. For dormant, these are not perfect for it cause of heat they generate.

Also one thing: lumen is light we see. lux is light we do not see but give benefit to plants.

Lophophora I keep winter, forget plants to cool windowsill, mid-winter they are in total dark cause I am so far north. Never grown lophs outdoors cause of climate.

However, about my info of light, they are for columnars and few species what needs lots of light.

Trichos can be grow over year with these lights and outdoors at summer, or let them rest also some time.. I allow trichos also rest short period but lophs keep very much of forgotten around the house at cool places windowsill without no care at all.. I have heard some grow lophs also year around with lots of fertilizers but they are very plump up lophs grown with extra heat or in very hot. But constant growth for lophophora makes the cactus more rot prone than lophophora allowed to rest over winter.


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Edited by intelligentlife (10/20/13 03:46 PM)


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Invisiblepsi
TOAST N' JAM
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Registered: 09/05/99
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Re: grow light for cactus to summer over winter [Re: HighZenBerg]
    #19005712 - 10/20/13 08:13 PM (10 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

HighZenBerg said:
i asked this question to a person that has grown lophs for over 20 years.  his answer was DO NOT DO IT!  lophs have a dormancy cycle that is natural.  when you disturb this cycle you get pissed off plants the next growing season that wont flower as often and irregular growth.




Did your friend elaborate any more on this? Is "irregular growth" referring to distorted physical form, or to the rate of growth?

I'm skeptical of the flowering frequency thing, my experience has been that every sexually mature areole seems to produce a single flower sooner or later. I have not used a dormancy period with my plants, but I wonder if it could be a matter of a temporary increase that does not translate to an overall increase in the number of flowers produced over the whole year. High temperatures after a cooler period seem to correlate strongly to synchronized flowerings across many plants IME, but presumably those areoles would have flowered at some point anyway.

The plants in this picture flowered all last fall and winter under T8 light.


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Offlineintelligentlife
Noaidi
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Registered: 10/18/10
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Re: grow light for cactus to summer over winter [Re: psi]
    #19006704 - 10/21/13 12:30 AM (10 years, 3 months ago)

I am sure flowering depends on temperature, actual flower opening and so on happens by the light intensity and time when light is strongest.

I have got lophophora diffusa to flower in the midde winter at dry season when I forget the plant near heat radiator, cactus was not get water for months.. Cactus put out flower but it never opened cause there is no sun at all over winter. Summer I can control my flowering time from morning to afternoon depends what windowsill my lophs are and when they got strongest amount of sunlight directly from window.

I have understand lophophora can be grow constantly but dormant periods are good for them and they flower over summer more aggressively.. Even the cactus is free flowering, in plants habitat it is used to flower at summer when it's not so cold and when rainfall occur more often.

Hard grown lophs are still very good with their resistance and not so easy prone to rot or so. I have heard that peyote grown very fast can suddenly die or starts rotting so therefor I keep the dormancy even I have read very different ways how to grow lophophora..
Even two-three month in cool temperature are good for cactus every year and short day to let plant know it is dormancy even temperatures can rise to +20C sometimes. In general if growing season temperatures are somewhere +30C or maybe as high as +40-50C, regular room temperature with short day time is okay and it's cool winter for cactus as long as there is no watering at all.

I am sure there is no one right way to grow peyote, even their habitat can happen so much rain that some plants rot at age of dozens of years, some plants survive long time with very minimal water or doesn't rot even days lasting rainfalls occurs.

But, what I have seen with indoor growing and so on, I realize that high temperatures control the flowering even cactus don't get water and light control when flower when it's full open and closed. Usually long dry season and waterfall are said to indicate flowering but without temperatures high enough lophophora will not flower easy.

I suggest to forget lophophora for 2-6months without water over winter in temperature not so warm than growth seasons and give short daytime light or no light at all.. Last winter I give lophophora very drafty windowsill place where temperature change from +15C to +0.5C (depends how cold outdoors was) and they go well. Now I am not living at same location so I have to give just regular room temperature.

Summer time I use extra heating pads for desert cacti like lophs and ariocarpus and I shut extra heat off for winter when soil has been dry for some time, this should be give lohophora plants okay rest time at +15-20C room temperature when summer they have temperature from +30-40C.

I suggest to use heating pads for adult desert cactus if climate doesn't offer ever hot days. I have timer to control day and night heat for lophophora during the growing season.. And it's easy to give dormancy but shut the heating and forget watering for darkest months and let plants shrink... Even one month dormancy are okay but I suggest minimum of 2months..

I have not own experience about older lophophora rot if cactus don't get dormancy but I have heard constantly growing peyote are can die suddenly when older or they go very rot prone.. My peyote plants will not bloom at all when they are in room temperature and watering cause easily rotting cause my climate is doesn't allow so high temperatures regular over summmer.

In my mind that is a sign of "winter" if they don't fruit of bloom as long as they don't get water or any moisture and excess heat. At spring I plug again the heat pads on and let them "woke up" and start growing season again for them when fruiting from previous season last flowers and new flowering starts.

There is very different ways still to grow lohps, I could grow them without any extra light or heat by very slow using only 4-5month growth season and rest 8-7months of dormant. But still I use heat pads with timer to show them when it's growing time and when dry time even I cannot offer them so cold temperatures. That's because arctic climate house building are very good quality what comes to isolation to keep heat inside and house where I am now is hard to find spot where are cool temperatures so I rely that every winter house temperature drops to near +10C at night and day time somewhere at +20C... I still think it's good just to keep short day light and dehydration to tell peyote it's dormancy. Well I have still more challenges to grow plants than most cactus collectors, without extra equipment example strong lights I cannot keep fast growing columnar cactus species cause greenhouse season is only ~3months anyway so spring and fall have to go with artificial lights. I also dormant chili and cucumber plants indoors by keeping them very dry and dehydrated indoors and let them drop leafs but watering for them are very small and sometimes I let them be almost "dead" and let drop most leafs away..

Last winter I make mistake and keep chili plants with full foliage and they were later on a nest of mites and contaminate my cacti garden. Now I keep chili and cucumber without foliage(by cut them or let plant drop them) indoors and use pesticides randomly to prevent pests. Also I use small pots over winter so they stay compact. As I said I have very different situation with this hobby compared to most people and I have to think all plants as well as cactus cause of long winter and pests without predators indoors.

Actually HPS and MH lights are bad cause as well as san pedro cactus like the light, also spider mites love the warmth lights offer.


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