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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: st1llnox]
    #18849680 - 09/16/13 03:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

st1llnox said:

I dare say you and I both in this thread have at least gingerly rubbed a finger on our egos, or perhaps it was simply relevant to the conversation. :shrug:




Well I have a healthy amount of pride in my accomplishments and education, not enough ego to think I'm anything more though. The idea that I was born with a more efficient brain (higher IQ) demeans my accomplishments which come from years of hard work and study.

I've never heard of a firm scientific basis behind the SQ, and find it demeaning to everyone across the board.


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OfflineKonyap

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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18850003 - 09/16/13 04:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Wizardry!


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18850220 - 09/16/13 05:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

st1llnox said:

I dare say you and I both in this thread have at least gingerly rubbed a finger on our egos, or perhaps it was simply relevant to the conversation. :shrug:




Well I have a healthy amount of pride in my accomplishments and education, not enough ego to think I'm anything more though. The idea that I was born with a more efficient brain (higher IQ) demeans my accomplishments which come from years of hard work and study.

I've never heard of a firm scientific basis behind the SQ, and find it demeaning to everyone across the board.




Exactly. It is worse than demeaning: it's dehumanizing to attempt to valuate people's intelligence, especially as people readily equate intelligence largely with worth.

I don't feel that I personally have had my accomplishments undermined by that I happen to be intelligent, but it's certainly much more impressive when someone who has less of such an advantage manages an equivalent feat.

Also relevant is simply that I've, for most chapters of my life, been super lazy and simply used my intelligence as a way to work less. I read something VERY important in the Mensa bulletin a few years ago emphasizing that gifted education needs to emphasize students HARD WORK and NOT their innate brilliance, which seems to easily turn into a go-ahead to just get by on your smarts and then, whenever we progress to such an extent in our educations that actually putting in work becomes necessary, we're unprepared and set back.

Accept that your intelligence is part of your accomplishments though, and perhaps you'd feel better about that seeing how intelligence and worth-of-accomplishment seem to relate for me.

Ability is aptitude times effort, so we've simply been given a much-higher limit on what we can accomplish and it is our duty to realize this as much as possible, especially as it concerns contributing to society or the natural philosophies/sciences, for instances.


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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18850252 - 09/16/13 05:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (04/19/23 08:02 PM)


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #18850280 - 09/16/13 05:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:

My IQ puts me in the official "genius" tier and in my opinion the whole concept is flawed and irrelevant to any aspect of life.




Assuming the first part true (always need to be skeptical of Internet claims, of course), I think it would be correct to that if someone were to give a challenging task (e.g. genetically engineer a non-pathogen, xylem-living bacterium to express the Bt toxins to kill the larval stage of stem-boring moths and beetles that do damage to plants), then if all parties involved were motivated to do so over the course of x days/weeks/months/years, I would put my money on say 120 over 80. I wouldn't put my money that the 120 spends their prize money more ethically than the 80; i think this would be a coin flip (assuming they both come from the same society more or less.)

P.S. Of course, it should go w/o saying that someone with a lot of intelligence might be unmotivated & not have "success" in life generally, while someone with less might be motivated & obtain it.




Motivation, I contend, has just as little correlation with intelligence as you assert morality and ethical conduct do.

I think it's prudent to be skeptical of ALL self-proclamations of high and outlier SQ's. While I'm in at least the top half of one percent (cue the valid and necessary skepticism), I'm--according to SQ's compared at face value--the dumbest person who's SQ I've heard of out of the last half dozen or so I met, who have said their IQs are as high as 180-something. :facepalm:

It's a refreshing experience to finally be the dumbest one of the group though lol.


--------------------
Back, bitches.
st1lln0x: so i'm on weed, temazepam, adderall, dexedrine, dxm, dph, alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, tryptophan, GABA, and kratom
Cavemen_savemen: st1lln0x, do you feel like a robot yet?
st1lln0x: I feel like a fucking Gundam
Click to friend me on Steam for Counter-Strike
:crankey: IS LIFE SKULLFUCKING YOU!? HAVE SOME FREE MORALE! :awesomenod:
Click if you want to feel you alone can do it! Click if you want to feel confident and beastly! Click if you want courage to let go and move on! And click the message if you need someone to talk to -- I'll understand, even if we "hate" each other on here :hug: :sun:


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #18850570 - 09/16/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:

My IQ puts me in the official "genius" tier and in my opinion the whole concept is flawed and irrelevant to any aspect of life.




Assuming the first part true (always need to be skeptical of Internet claims, of course), I think it would be correct to that if someone were to give a challenging task (e.g. genetically engineer a non-pathogen, xylem-living bacterium to express the Bt toxins to kill the larval stage of stem-boring moths and beetles that do damage to plants), then if all parties involved were motivated to do so over the course of x days/weeks/months/years, I would put my money on say 120 over 80. I wouldn't put my money that the 120 spends their prize money more ethically than the 80; i think this would be a coin flip (assuming they both come from the same society more or less.)

P.S. Of course, it should go w/o saying that someone with a lot of intelligence might be unmotivated & not have "success" in life generally, while someone with less might be motivated & obtain it.




Yeah any unsubstantiated claim over the internet is pretty worthless, the only point in mentioning my IQ was to cover the point that I could be upset with the system due to having a low score.

I've not seen any reliable scientific backing to the IQ tests though, in my eyes they're as reliable as polygraph test or a lobotomy


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OfflineChuckfinely
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #18857102 - 09/18/13 08:51 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:

My IQ puts me in the official "genius" tier and in my opinion the whole concept is flawed and irrelevant to any aspect of life.




Assuming the first part true (always need to be skeptical of Internet claims, of course), I think it would be correct to that if someone were to give a challenging task (e.g. genetically engineer a non-pathogen, xylem-living bacterium to express the Bt toxins to kill the larval stage of stem-boring moths and beetles that do damage to plants), then if all parties involved were motivated to do so over the course of x days/weeks/months/years, I would put my money on say 120 over 80. I wouldn't put my money that the 120 spends their prize money more ethically than the 80; i think this would be a coin flip (assuming they both come from the same society more or less.)

P.S. Of course, it should go w/o saying that someone with a lot of intelligence might be unmotivated & not have "success" in life generally, while someone with less might be motivated & obtain it.





I think motivation has something to do with how quickly you absorb and how well you retain information.

Example: I read this forum like it was the bible for 3 months before i ever tried to grow a mushroom. I was easily able to learn everything because i was super interested in the subject. I know even on my death bed I'll be able to give detailed instructions on how to grow mush from inoculation to fruiting in a tub

Now if you were to show me a psychology forum and told me that somehow after 3 months of reading i would be able to produce the same amount of income for the same amount of effort, i highly doubt i would be able to absorb the information to the required extent. Or be able to explain it even a week later.


I think motivation plays a big roll in how "smart" you are. If you dislike math you probably aren't going to end up being a mathlete


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18857180 - 09/18/13 09:23 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (04/19/23 08:03 PM)


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #18857397 - 09/18/13 10:44 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:

Quote:

I've not seen any reliable scientific backing to the IQ tests though...




To test this, one way would be to give subjects a task that takes some amt of time and learning before applying it to solve the problem, one which no person involved has any meaningful background in. For me, this would be something like software programming. Of course, the reward for success much be sufficient to motivate the participants... presumably that would be money.




That would still only cover an ability in one or a few areas, and it would suggest that one is more intelligent for having more aptitude in tasks. Who is to say what intelligence is?
If you're in a war pitting your resources against someone else, perhaps the living are more intelligent for their aptitude with a weapon, or their strategies, their tactics, perhaps not. I think there is more to intelligence than who is the victor.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18857685 - 09/18/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (04/19/23 08:04 PM)


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #18857739 - 09/18/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:

* i once saw a TED Talks with a fairly young boy from a rural village in Africa who made a windmill from scrap components to bring the first occurrence of electricity to his village. I would think that he could compete quite well, to say the least, with Westerners in his age cohort on learning & problem solving tasks.




That doesn't make him intelligent :shrug: let alone does it suggest how intelligent. He could be a savant, or lack whatever aptitude he has there in other fields which is IME usually the case.
Beethoven is both an example of genius and what I would consider retardation, how do you measure someone who is exceedingly capable in one area and fails miserably in others? Everyone is a balance of weaknesses and strengths, and those fluctuate with time. There is no person, group of individuals, or machine which could standardize intelligence without overlooking it entirely


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Offlinest1llnox
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18858330 - 09/18/13 02:17 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Repertoire89 said:
Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:

* i once saw a TED Talks with a fairly young boy from a rural village in Africa who made a windmill from scrap components to bring the first occurrence of electricity to his village. I would think that he could compete quite well, to say the least, with Westerners in his age cohort on learning & problem solving tasks.




That doesn't make him intelligent :shrug: let alone does it suggest how intelligent. He could be a savant, or lack whatever aptitude he has there in other fields which is IME usually the case.
Beethoven is both an example of genius and what I would consider retardation, how do you measure someone who is exceedingly capable in one area and fails miserably in others? Everyone is a balance of weaknesses and strengths, and those fluctuate with time. There is no person, group of individuals, or machine which could standardize intelligence without overlooking it entirely




QFT.

Interest and motivation too, assuredly, is the most important factor for someone's "smartness".

I used to get around the 40th percentile in standardized math tests until I had a super sarcastic math teacher that encouraged me to look for and discover shortcuts beyond what she was teaching, and I fell in love with math. Got at the 99%th percentile on every other standardized math test I've taken ever since, but before that all evidence indicated that I was simply below-average, by nature (if we're accepting much of what is thought about SQ), in this area and would remain that way.

Not to mention the mechanics of testing...


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18867470 - 09/20/13 12:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (04/19/23 08:05 PM)


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #18868616 - 09/20/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:

Based on the definition of the word, it does. If no criteria for intelligence existed, then it may as well be eliminated from the English language. Also, the kid is not a savant.

...If to you the term is subjective to one's own personal opinion, then so be it; such subjectively cannot be argued (e.g. "I think blue is the prettiest color.")




Should we eliminate dark matter from the dictionary because it cannot be understood in its totality?

Beethoven was a miserable social tool and lost his virginity to a prostitute when he was like 35. Whatever he could do with music I don't hold above many other musicians who could create great music without sacrificing every other aspect of their consciousness. I've studied his music and he's certainly a great musician but no better than a thousand others.

If one defined intelligence by proficiency in a single subject it would be akin to education, if we define it by an ability to manage between subjects then it overlooks an abundance of over achievers who do not posses natural aptitude but use economy of motion.
Intelligence is neither skill nor natural aptitude, its a balance of various traits, something too complicated to be standardized.


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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: Repertoire89]
    #18869411 - 09/20/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

---




Edited by EntheogenicPeace (04/19/23 08:06 PM)


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InvisibleRepertoire89
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Re: Court OKs Barring Smart People From Becoming Cops (Really) [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #18870141 - 09/20/13 11:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Well we're in a similar place in our definition of the idea of an intelligent person, there are few people I would outright label as intelligent but I do think that such a person exists

The issue I personally have is with standardizing the concept of intelligence


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