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OfflineCatchThirtythr33
Pineal Gland Optics


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 214
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Is the Changa effect really that different?
    #18830129 - 09/11/13 09:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Evening Shroomery,

So yesterday my B. Caapi leaves arrived, and I excitedly smoked a couple straight bowls of it just to see how it was by itself. Pleasant smoke, kind of woody flavoured, but nice and smooth.

Today I decided to give it a go with the spice. As I'm still waiting for my mg scale to arrive to make proper Changa, I did a simple sandwich method. Over the past few weeks I've found somewhat of a sweet-spot for loading the sandwich well using oregano and have had some misfires, but also a couple mind-blowing experiences.

After pre-loading by smoking a bowl of straight Caapi, I proceeded to smoke the sandwiched spice. The effects were... moderate at best. It felt softer, less vivid, less sharp. No noticeable duration increase either. Not sure if it's my technique, but I had a layer of ash and leaf above the spice to adequately protect it from the flame. A couple days ago I had an amazing experience using just oregano, so I'm not exactly sure what's going on.

The experience seemed to lack the sharpness and electrifying feel of my previous oregano/freebase bowls. I'm a little hesitant to make changa now as I feel it will lose that sharp vividness that I've come to love in DMT. Is the Changa experience really that different? or am I just doing something wrong? 

Thanks! :heart:


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Invisiblemuistrue
Inspired by the mystery
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 12,899
Loc: Behind the Redwoods
Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: CatchThirtythr33]
    #18830274 - 09/11/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

To have any noticeable effect from the caapi leaves you need to make at least a 10x extract before infusing the DMT into them. Without doing that you might as well use oregeno because you won't be getting anywhere near enough harmala alkaloids.


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Offlinej_db69
Forever learning shaman
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Registered: 02/09/04
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Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: muistrue]
    #18830441 - 09/11/13 10:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

are you trying to avoid extractions?  I understand traditionalist values if that is the goal, but working with something a little more pure, lets you get to where you want to be


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One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the dark conscious.
--Jung


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OfflineCatchThirtythr33
Pineal Gland Optics


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 214
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: j_db69]
    #18830494 - 09/11/13 10:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

muistrue said:
To have any noticeable effect from the caapi leaves you need to make at least a 10x extract before infusing the DMT into them. Without doing that you might as well use oregeno because you won't be getting anywhere near enough harmala alkaloids.



I've heard mixed results. Some people claims that even small amounts of harmalas (present in the basic smoked leaf) have a "way of making themselves known" and that they have a subtle effect. Others claim as you do. Wasn't exactly sure which way to lean :confused:

Quote:

j_db69 said:
are you trying to avoid extractions?  I understand traditionalist values if that is the goal, but working with something a little more pure, lets you get to where you want to be



I'd consider doing an extraction, I have 99% iso so I could. I've read it takes a few weeks.
Is it really worth it?


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Invisiblemuistrue
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Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: CatchThirtythr33]
    #18830536 - 09/11/13 11:04 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CatchThirtythr33 said:
I've heard mixed results. Some people claims that even small amounts of harmalas (present in the basic smoked leaf) have a "way of making themselves known" and that they have a subtle effect. Others claim as you do. Wasn't exactly sure which way to lean :confused:




There's no where near enough harmala's in the plain leaf to have any effect in a couple hits, make an extract.

Quote:

CatchThirtythr33 said:
I'd consider doing an extraction, I have 99% iso so I could. I've read it takes a few weeks.
Is it really worth it?




It does not take a few weeks lol whoever told you that doesn't know what they're doing. For example if you have 10 grams of DMT soak 100 grams of caapi leaf in 99% iso for 24 hours shaking regularly, strain out and discard the leaf then mix in 10 grams of fresh caapi leaf to the harmala rich iso then evaporate fully. That will leave you with approximately 10 grams of 10x caapi leaf. Now infuse your 10 grams of DMT into that. Adjust the ratios in that tek for whatever amount of DMT you have.


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OfflineCatchThirtythr33
Pineal Gland Optics


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 214
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: muistrue]
    #18830556 - 09/11/13 11:09 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

muistrue said:
It does not take a few weeks lol whoever told you that doesn't know what they're doing. For example if you have 10 grams of DMT soak 100 grams of caapi leaf in 99% iso for 24 hours shaking regularly, strain out and discard the leaf then mix in 10 grams of fresh caapi leaf to the harmala rich iso then evaporate fully. That will leave you with approximately 10 grams of 10x caapi leaf. Now infuse your 10 grams of DMT into that. Adjust the ratios in that tek for whatever amount of DMT you have.




Wow that simple? And then use the resulting 10x leaf for the changa? I'm using much smaller amounts than 10g so if that's all there is to it it'll be done pretty quick. Thanks!

I was reading the last post in this thread that stated that the people @ the Nexus said 3 weeks.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14331411


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Invisiblemuistrue
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Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: CatchThirtythr33]
    #18830565 - 09/11/13 11:11 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah 3 weeks is overkill, I always soak for 24 hours. Just grind the leaf to a powder.


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OfflineCatchThirtythr33
Pineal Gland Optics


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 214
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: muistrue]
    #18830590 - 09/11/13 11:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

muistrue said:
Yeah 3 weeks is overkill, I always soak for 24 hours. Just grind the leaf to a powder.



Oh I see.
Any particular ratio iso:leaf for the soak?


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Invisiblemuistrue
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Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: CatchThirtythr33]
    #18830601 - 09/11/13 11:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

CatchThirtythr33 said:
Any particular ratio iso:leaf for the soak?




No just fully saturate.


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OfflineCatchThirtythr33
Pineal Gland Optics


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 214
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: muistrue]
    #18830627 - 09/11/13 11:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Great, thanks for your help!:thumbup:


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OfflineKief Ledger
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Registered: 11/10/11
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Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: CatchThirtythr33]
    #18831429 - 09/12/13 07:43 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I get sufficient maoi  effect from plain leaf to nulify tolerance.  IMO. The main advantage to Changa, is you can take small hits over the course of a few minutes to get you where you want to go.  As opposed to smoke as much as you can as fast as you can method with plain freebase.    That said I've only experimented with changa  a few times, with very small batches.  For some reason I'm always paranoid that il lose my crystals when i dissolve into a solvent for evaporation.


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
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Registered: 03/13/11
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Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: Kief Ledger]
    #18831492 - 09/12/13 08:03 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

The changa experience is pretty different IMO Though it still retains some of the dmt feel. I find it less geometric, less vivid, less cosmic, less bizarre... But it is more of a mellow trip. Don't get me wrong, it gets intense... It's just smoother and slower and builds more into a typical ego death than some extra dimensional voyage. Ie. instead of being shown the secrets of the universe by elves, I just become the universe. I don't like it nearly as much as freebase, but if you have enough it's definitely worth making a little. It won't extend your trip though. If you want that you're better off eating it beforehand so it has time to become fully active, then smoke dmt


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OfflineCatchThirtythr33
Pineal Gland Optics


Registered: 05/03/13
Posts: 214
Loc: Canada Flag
Last seen: 5 years, 2 months
Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: JacksonMetaller] * 1
    #18832403 - 09/12/13 01:07 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Kief Ledger said:
I get sufficient maoi  effect from plain leaf to nulify tolerance.  IMO. The main advantage to Changa, is you can take small hits over the course of a few minutes to get you where you want to go.  As opposed to smoke as much as you can as fast as you can method with plain freebase.    That said I've only experimented with changa  a few times, with very small batches.  For some reason I'm always paranoid that il lose my crystals when i dissolve into a solvent for evaporation.



See, these are the mixed results! :lol:
I actually have a tiny nudging paranoia about the same thing. I had a recrystallization that resulted in loss of good product now I'm kind of nervous about experimenting with it.


Quote:

JacksonMetaller said:
The changa experience is pretty different IMO Though it still retains some of the dmt feel. I find it less geometric, less vivid, less cosmic, less bizarre... But it is more of a mellow trip. Don't get me wrong, it gets intense... It's just smoother and slower and builds more into a typical ego death than some extra dimensional voyage. Ie. instead of being shown the secrets of the universe by elves, I just become the universe. I don't like it nearly as much as freebase, but if you have enough it's definitely worth making a little. It won't extend your trip though. If you want that you're better off eating it beforehand so it has time to become fully active, then smoke dmt



I have a feeling that I'm in the same boat, though I cant say for sure. There's something about the freebase blast that I just really like and I dont want to lose that.

Instead of making actual changa I'm tempted to just make 10x leaf and pre-smoke it beforehand to get a taste of the MAOI + DMT experience in case it's not my cup o' tea


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InvisibleMystiqueMushroom


Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 4,737
Loc: PNW
Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: CatchThirtythr33]
    #18832542 - 09/12/13 01:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Just weigh the changa after its dried, if you lost any weight, it's likely stuck to the container.

I've yet to try caapi extract or caapi enhanced leaf, but I'm VERY happy with my peppermint I've enhanced with spice.
1:1 ratio leaf to spice.
Peppermint is super smooth and without enhancing with anything, leaves a very minty/fresh taste in your mouth. Highly recommended.

Unlike smoked freebase, leaf enhanced with spice is a MUCH more gentle onset.

Oh yea, vapor genie is the way to go with changa. Suttle onset from the changa and the clean vapor from the genie, doesn't get better!


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https://youtu.be/np5Oi1dyO1k


Edited by MystiqueMushroom (09/12/13 01:48 PM)


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OfflineLord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms
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Registered: 04/09/11
Posts: 3,071
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Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: MystiqueMushroom]
    #18832590 - 09/12/13 01:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

If you want that you're better off eating it beforehand so it has time to become fully active, then smoke dmt




Woah, smoking DMT with full MAO inhibition sounds extremely intense. :nyan:

Why not put some salvia extract into the mix as well if you're already going balls deep?! :lol:


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Stand up. You're not alone.


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InvisibleMystiqueMushroom


Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 4,737
Loc: PNW
Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #18832594 - 09/12/13 02:00 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I would never mix salvia+dmt


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https://youtu.be/np5Oi1dyO1k


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OfflineLord_McLovin
mad scientist on shrooms
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Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: MystiqueMushroom]
    #18832603 - 09/12/13 02:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Well, from a physiological point of view it's not dangerous...

It was more of a joke though.


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Stand up. You're not alone.


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InvisibleGlobal_Roaming
purity of essence
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Registered: 06/06/13
Posts: 300
Loc: over the fucking rainbow....
Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: MystiqueMushroom]
    #18832969 - 09/12/13 03:41 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MystiqueMushroom said:
I've yet to try caapi extract or caapi enhanced leaf, but I'm VERY happy with my peppermint I've enhanced with spice.
1:1 ratio leaf to spice.
Peppermint is super smooth and without enhancing with anything, leaves a very minty/fresh taste in your mouth. Highly recommended.

Unlike smoked freebase, leaf enhanced with spice is a MUCH more gentle onset.

Oh yea, vapor genie is the way to go with changa. Suttle onset from the changa and the clean vapor from the genie, doesn't get better!




This. Exactly how I've been doing it, including last night. 1:1 infused peppermint leaf in a classic VG. :thumbup:


--------------------
/peace out brothers and sisters
:aweyeah:


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InvisibleMystiqueMushroom


Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 4,737
Loc: PNW
Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: Global_Roaming]
    #18833006 - 09/12/13 03:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Global_Roaming said:
Quote:

MystiqueMushroom said:
I've yet to try caapi extract or caapi enhanced leaf, but I'm VERY happy with my peppermint I've enhanced with spice.
1:1 ratio leaf to spice.
Peppermint is super smooth and without enhancing with anything, leaves a very minty/fresh taste in your mouth. Highly recommended.

Unlike smoked freebase, leaf enhanced with spice is a MUCH more gentle onset.

Oh yea, vapor genie is the way to go with changa. Suttle onset from the changa and the clean vapor from the genie, doesn't get better!




This. Exactly how I've been doing it, including last night. 1:1 infused peppermint leaf in a classic VG. :thumbup:





:highfive1:


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https://youtu.be/np5Oi1dyO1k


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OfflineJacksonMetaller
Stranger

Registered: 03/13/11
Posts: 13,361
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Re: Is the Changa effect really that different? [Re: Lord_McLovin]
    #18833040 - 09/12/13 03:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Lord_McLovin said:
Quote:

If you want that you're better off eating it beforehand so it has time to become fully active, then smoke dmt




Woah, smoking DMT with full MAO inhibition sounds extremely intense. :nyan:

Why not put some salvia extract into the mix as well if you're already going balls deep?! :lol:




Lol well I think it would just depend on how much you smoke. Sounds like an excellent way to properly adjust your dose


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