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OfflineDeviate
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Two ways to look at Jesus
    #18822290 - 09/10/13 07:31 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

We could look at Jesus as our older brother. A human being who was a little more evolved than the rest of us and left for us a teaching on how to become like him.


Another way to look at him is as God incarnate and worship him as such. Both are equally correct, but sound incompatible to the dualistic mind.

So much spiritual truth is like this. This is one reason its so difficult to explain spiritual truth to an atheist. No matter how you put it, he will see it as contradictory or lacking in evidence.


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Invisibleb plus

Registered: 10/13/12
Posts: 928
Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: Deviate]
    #18822309 - 09/10/13 07:44 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If Jesus actually existed, he was certainly not "more evolved" than the rest of mankind...

If you were born into an indian culuture, you would most likely be saying the same thing about Lord Krishna.

If you were born into early Viking Norway, you would probably be saying the same thing about Thor or Oden.

If Jesus existed, then at most, he was a kind man that tried to help others. But don't get to far ahead of yourself, there are people like this all over the world.

A more accurate way to look at Jesus is as mythological figure:thumbup:


Edited by b plus (09/10/13 07:46 AM)


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InvisiblePocketLady
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: b plus]
    #18822449 - 09/10/13 08:45 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

b plus said:
A more accurate way to look at Jesus is as mythological figure:thumbup:




That's the way I see it. 

Jesus is within. We shouldn't be praying outside to some external deity, but looking for the one that already exists within us.  The stories just show the way.

The point of the Bible isn't to worship Jesus, it's to help us become Jesus.


--------------------
Love is from the infinite, and will remain until eternity.
The seeker of love escapes the chains of birth and death.
Tomorrow, when resurrection comes,
The heart that is not in love will fail the test.

~ Rumi



The day we start giving Love instead of seeking Love, we will have re-written our whole destiny.
~ Swami Chinmayanada Saraswatir


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Offlineeve69
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: PocketLady]
    #18822492 - 09/10/13 09:00 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

If Jesus wasn't such a good curse word Jesus wouldn't still exist.


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...or something







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Offlineiarphairc
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: eve69]
    #18822745 - 09/10/13 10:18 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I always thought he should be viewed as a very wise man if we are to believe all the stories he was just spittin' the truth :laugh:


--------------------
The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant- Maximilien Robespierre


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: Deviate]
    #18823059 - 09/10/13 11:34 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)



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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: Deviate]
    #18823781 - 09/10/13 03:03 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Another way to look at him is as God incarnate and worship him as such.

A purely mythological idea, the demigod, born of a god and a virginal woman. Common in Hellenistic myth which co-opted Jesus as yet another demigod into the syncretism that became Christianity.
A purely idolatrous idea from a Jewish or an Islamic perspective.
A common idea in Hinduism, but not limited to just one avatar.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineclam_dude
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: Deviate]
    #18825610 - 09/10/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
We could look at Jesus as our older brother. A human being who was a little more evolved than the rest of us and left for us a teaching on how to become like him.


Another way to look at him is as God incarnate and worship him as such. Both are equally correct, but sound incompatible to the dualistic mind.

So much spiritual truth is like this. This is one reason its so difficult to explain spiritual truth to an atheist. No matter how you put it, he will see it as contradictory or lacking in evidence.




Maybe there was a human being by the name of Jesus, who many stories have been based on.  What on earth makes you think that there is anything more to it than that?

I'm an atheist because I see no reason to believe in god of any sort, let alone a god postulated by ignorant (by virtue of their place in history) desert dwellers 2000 years ago.  Do you agree that the bible was written by humans?


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Invisiblecez
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: Deviate]
    #18825685 - 09/10/13 10:24 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

I look at Jesus as an older brother/teacher.

We all could be taught/reminded through his teachings regardless if you believe in his divinity or not.

I think the issue lies with the connection between religion and politics.
And rightfully so.


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Offlinellama_police
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: cez]
    #18826561 - 09/11/13 05:27 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

We are all "God"


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18826758 - 09/11/13 07:42 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Another way to look at him is as God incarnate and worship him as such.

A purely mythological idea, the demigod, born of a god and a virginal woman. Common in Hellenistic myth which co-opted Jesus as yet another demigod into the syncretism that became Christianity.




^^^ Jesus the man may have existed and been a wiseman but was definitely provably deified.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: Yogi1] * 1
    #18827539 - 09/11/13 12:19 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Another way to look at him is as God incarnate and worship him as such.

A purely mythological idea, the demigod, born of a god and a virginal woman. Common in Hellenistic myth which co-opted Jesus as yet another demigod into the syncretism that became Christianity.




^^^ Jesus the man may have existed and been a wiseman but was definitely provably deified.




" definitely provably deified"  :lol:  Sorry man, but nothing of the kind is empirical. Proofs belong to geometry, mathematics, and replicable experiments upon physical matter and energy. The theological concepts  surrounding myth are not provable. They might be believed, and belief might by accounted as faith, but I do not have faith in beliefs. I have faith, but it is in a Mystery for which no contrived belief is worthy of maintaining. I may endeavor to cultivate "the mind of Christ," but I know by whom, when and for what reason beliefs were formulated about "the mind of Christ." Beliefs unquestioned means thinking has been abandoned for dogmas invented by other thinkers. I have enough confidence in my own ability to think that I need not choose to follow the thoughts of other men. This may be elitist, but I am attracted by Gnostic religion, which seeks to Know intuitively, and immediately, rather than to believe beliefs invented by the minds of other men.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18829604 - 09/11/13 07:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Quote:

Yogi1 said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Another way to look at him is as God incarnate and worship him as such.

A purely mythological idea, the demigod, born of a god and a virginal woman. Common in Hellenistic myth which co-opted Jesus as yet another demigod into the syncretism that became Christianity.




^^^ Jesus the man may have existed and been a wiseman but was definitely provably deified.




" definitely provably deified"  :lol:  Sorry man, but nothing of the kind is empirical. Proofs belong to geometry, mathematics, and replicable experiments upon physical matter and energy. The theological concepts  surrounding myth are not provable. They might be believed, and belief might by accounted as faith, but I do not have faith in beliefs. I have faith, but it is in a Mystery for which no contrived belief is worthy of maintaining. I may endeavor to cultivate "the mind of Christ," but I know by whom, when and for what reason beliefs were formulated about "the mind of Christ." Beliefs unquestioned means thinking has been abandoned for dogmas invented by other thinkers. I have enough confidence in my own ability to think that I need not choose to follow the thoughts of other men. This may be elitist, but I am attracted by Gnostic religion, which seeks to Know intuitively, and immediately, rather than to believe beliefs invented by the minds of other men.




Provably deified because there are 11 or more stories of the same savior... you just said this earlier in the thread.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: Yogi1]
    #18830492 - 09/11/13 10:53 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah, and Carlos Casteneda also has as many books, and Don Juan Matus, his Man of Knowledge, and Sorcerer, turned out to be a fiction, not the object of his Ph.D. in anthropology. How many Harry Potter books are there, 'cause I really don't know. Are you going to maintain the historicity of any of those characters. I don't think you understand what the word 'proof' actually means. The Christian mythos is not original. Crucified heroes and demigods are many. Look at the picture of a now stolen gem of Orpheus - yet another crucified savior. Deification of human beings is theosis in Patristic theology. The deity of Iesous is another theological construct which cannot be proved, it is an article of belief. We're free to believe what we will, and if highlighting a story with a theological concept has you work towards becoming more Christ-like, then the concept has done what it was intended to. Nevertheless, it remains a concept, as does all theological ideas about Deity. The problem is, a concept is not the Reality, and to treat it as such is just idolatry, worship of an idea instead of an incomprehensible Mystery. Then, we go to war because we don't agree with the other guy's concept about God, instead of simply agreeing that God is Mystery that defies thought.



--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18831094 - 09/12/13 03:18 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Yeah, and Carlos Casteneda also has as many books, and Don Juan Matus, his Man of Knowledge, and Sorcerer, turned out to be a fiction, not the object of his Ph.D. in anthropology. How many Harry Potter books are there, 'cause I really don't know. Are you going to maintain the historicity of any of those characters. I don't think you understand what the word 'proof' actually means. The Christian mythos is not original. Crucified heroes and demigods are many. Look at the picture of a now stolen gem of Orpheus - yet another crucified savior. Deification of human beings is theosis in Patristic theology. The deity of Iesous is another theological construct which cannot be proved, it is an article of belief. We're free to believe what we will, and if highlighting a story with a theological concept has you work towards becoming more Christ-like, then the concept has done what it was intended to. Nevertheless, it remains a concept, as does all theological ideas about Deity. The problem is, a concept is not the Reality, and to treat it as such is just idolatry, worship of an idea instead of an incomprehensible Mystery. Then, we go to war because we don't agree with the other guy's concept about God, instead of simply agreeing that God is Mystery that defies thought.






I'm not understanding... There is proof that the story of the savior son of a virgin resurrected after 3 days far predates Christianity. This isnt something that can be debated.

When I'm saying Jesus was deified I'm saying after his death this very old "pagan" story was then applied to him. You'd be hard pressed to find much that specified a virgin birth even in the canon the church handpicked to put together.

These facts arent really debatable.


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OfflineYogi1
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: Deviate]
    #18831266 - 09/12/13 06:08 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)



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Offlineiarphairc
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: Yogi1]
    #18831672 - 09/12/13 09:06 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:





Wow if that doesn't even make you take a second look at the historical foundation of Christianity..There is a problem :P


--------------------
The secret of freedom lies in educating people, whereas the secret of tyranny is in keeping them ignorant- Maximilien Robespierre


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: Yogi1]
    #18832101 - 09/12/13 11:28 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

When I'm saying Jesus was deified I'm saying after his death this very old "pagan" story was then applied to him.

A little clarification goes a LONG way. This makes sense, that the church authorities attributed deity to Jesus. Presuming what God is or does is what I object to.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: iarphairc]
    #18832136 - 09/12/13 11:36 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Isis was the Greek name for Auset. Osiris was Greek for Ausar or Auzar. Lazarus may well be a rendering of L'azar. And the biblical Lazarus was wrapped in burial shrouds, arms probably folded across chest beneath them, as Osiris is often depicted as god of resurrection, and as mummies were prepared. Mummies were referred to as Osirises. While Osiris was dismembered, literally. All of his 14 pieces were recovered by Isis except for his 'member.' Thoth fashioned a divine dildo so-to-speak, by which Isis conceived Horus. I am not aware of Horus being crucified. I think the creator of this thing was pushing it a bit. Nevertheless, much if not most of the NT vignettes seem to be taken directly from the Coffin and Pyramid Texts of Egypt. I would refer interested readers to D.M. Murdock's book Christ in Egypt: The Horus-Jesus Connection.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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OfflineFishOilTheKid
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Re: Two ways to look at Jesus [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #18832148 - 09/12/13 11:42 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

So do you think the 'member' was the sacred phallic plant substance?  The mushroom?

Hidden knowledge and all revealed though such an experience even the Sun God himself?


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