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Invisible1ve5w4hu


Registered: 03/11/12
Posts: 262
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: PocketLady]
    #18826730 - 09/11/13 07:19 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics?



I try to question everything and have negative views of those who don't.

I feel it's a way to better yourself.

Otherwise, you're living in ignorance and accepting lies as fact.

I hate to call them lies; what's a better word for when a person blindly reiterates something somebody else said? Common myths?

Like Columbus didn't think the Earth was flat but people keep teaching that to kids and it perpetuates.

It's like that, but with common life advice.

Right now I'm questioning everything that your parents or your teachers would repeat a million times.

I definitely wouldn't recommend it. It's put me in a crazy place, you don't want to be there, but these things absolutely need to be questioned.

The universe is the big picture, right? And humans are just a spec. Humans evolved to be able to utilize a tiny part of the universe.

There is no meaning to life, but what purpose do we serve in the big picture? How will our existence change other things?

Don't respond to any of this. Focus your attention to Clam_Dude.


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OfflineYogi1
Squatchin
Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: clam_dude]
    #18826766 - 09/11/13 07:45 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Atheists be cool, especially militant asshole atheists for luls. Richard Dawkins is agnostic... that is all.


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OfflineDeviate
newbie
Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: PocketLady]
    #18827177 - 09/11/13 10:26 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
People are free to believe whatever they want to believe. 

Personally I'm not religious but neither am I an atheist.  My idea of "God" is similar to Ziggity.  God is everything, and God is nothing.  In fact God is probably more nothing than everything.  You cannot define God.  I like the way Eckhart Tolle puts it - God is the space in which everything exists.





WHy arent you religious? I mean, the way you described God is clearly the same phenomena that is being written about in holy scriptures, so if you recognize this God, you are clearly on the side of religion in worldview. I think it is a shame that religion is not associated with God anymore, to such a degree that people who have known God do not consider themselves religious.

I guess I used to be like you, I considered myself spiritual but not religious.  But then after studying religion, I realized I was absolutely definitely 100% religious. Religious is the second best thing you can be, second only to self-realized. But I mean truly religious, on fire with love for God, not just checking a box that says christian, mulsim, etc.


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OfflineYogi1
Squatchin
Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: Deviate]
    #18827247 - 09/11/13 10:54 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:
People are free to believe whatever they want to believe. 

Personally I'm not religious but neither am I an atheist.  My idea of "God" is similar to Ziggity.  God is everything, and God is nothing.  In fact God is probably more nothing than everything.  You cannot define God.  I like the way Eckhart Tolle puts it - God is the space in which everything exists.





WHy arent you religious? I mean, the way you described God is clearly the same phenomena that is being written about in holy scriptures, so if you recognize this God, you are clearly on the side of religion in worldview. I think it is a shame that religion is not associated with God anymore, to such a degree that people who have known God do not consider themselves religious.

I guess I used to be like you, I considered myself spiritual but not religious.  But then after studying religion, I realized I was absolutely definitely 100% religious. Religious is the second best thing you can be, second only to self-realized. But I mean truly religious, on fire with love for God, not just checking a box that says christian, mulsim, etc.




If you cant define god you cant be religious.


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Offlineclam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 1,717
Loc: twilight zone
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: PocketLady]
    #18827417 - 09/11/13 11:48 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PocketLady said:
People are free to believe whatever they want to believe. 

Personally I'm not religious but neither am I an atheist.  My idea of "God" is similar to Ziggity.  God is everything, and God is nothing.  In fact God is probably more nothing than everything.  You cannot define God.  I like the way Eckhart Tolle puts it - God is the space in which everything exists.




I'm always a little confused when people say "god is everything" or "god is nothing" and state that they're not an atheist.  I wonder if there is anything about mine and your world views that differs, other than using or not using the label "god."  If god is "everything," why not just use the word "everything"?


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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OfflineYogi1
Squatchin
Registered: 04/01/13
Posts: 1,015
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: clam_dude]
    #18827496 - 09/11/13 12:08 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:
People are free to believe whatever they want to believe. 

Personally I'm not religious but neither am I an atheist.  My idea of "God" is similar to Ziggity.  God is everything, and God is nothing.  In fact God is probably more nothing than everything.  You cannot define God.  I like the way Eckhart Tolle puts it - God is the space in which everything exists.




I'm always a little confused when people say "god is everything" or "god is nothing" and state that they're not an atheist.  I wonder if there is anything about mine and your world views that differs, other than using or not using the label "god."  If god is "everything," why not just use the word "everything"?




Because god is ambiguous by nature. God could be a mondset, view of reality, a physical creator like hyper advanced aliens, or simply another dimension of existence and consciousness. None of this even scratches the surface though. I am an agnostic atheist, and I believe in certain definitions of god.


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Offlineclam_dude
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Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 1,717
Loc: twilight zone
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: Deviate]
    #18827756 - 09/11/13 01:14 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
I can get annoyed with atheists when they behave extremely arrogantly and confrontationally. I think what gets on my nerves about them, is how they claim to hold logic and reason in such high regard, and then make all kinds of logical errors in their attack on religion.




I haven't made any logical errors in my attack on religion (that I'm aware of).  Maybe you could point out some common examples.  Also, an illogical argument is simply an illogical argument.  It's not reflective at all of atheists as a whole (atheism simply being lack of belief in a god)

Quote:


I have never seen an atheist attack religion in the way I understand it, they always attack their own (mis)understanding of religion but they refuse to consider that there might be another way of looking at things which they have not considered.




Perhaps most atheists are in fact aware of the many versions of religion.  It's just that they can't address everyone's idea of religion at once.  So they address the most common forms.  I happen to think that there are as many versions of religion or god as there are believers.  To me, this reinforces the notion that god is a man made construct. 

Quote:


I used to be an arrogant atheist myself




But to be clear, you don't think that being an atheist makes one arrogant, do you? 

Quote:


until I was humbled by the realization that I didn't actually know anything about reality and just assuming materialism should be the default view, was utterly absurd. Most atheists will defend materialism to the death however, making just as many assumptions as religious people.





I wouldn't say I "don't know anything" about the universe, but I admittedly know very, very little.  As does everyone.  Nobody knows weather or not there is a god.  So when people claim there is a god, they are the ones making a baseless claim.  Just like you, I know very little and it follows that I don't know there is a god.  My position is one of ignorance.  I don't believe in god. 

I find it amusing when theists call atheists arrogant, and then state as fact that there is a god.  How do they know something we don't?  If someone wants to admit ignorance, and use the "hey, we don't know anything about the universe" line, then surely this person must realize they can't claim to know there is a god.  And yet they do claim this.  And they call people who make no such statement arrogant.  :confused:

Quote:


Atheists tend to think that everyone should see things like them, as if their point of view is the only possible valid way of looking at things and if you dont share it, you must be stupid or delusional.




If by "seeing things like them" you mean admitting that we know very little about the universe, then yes.  Like I said before, nobody knows enough to claim there is a god. 
Quote:



If there was another means of knowing available to human beings beyond the intellect, then you would never be able to prove or disprove that with the intellect.  Will atheists ever realize this?





Well that's a nice little mind game.  When you say "beyond the intellect" I have no idea what you mean.  And I don't think you do either.  You're saying it "not intellect".  Well, why don't you tell me what it is, not what it isn't.  Same thing goes for non-material things.  People claim to believe in the non-material.  Well this isn't a thing to believe in.  It's just not material.  I believe in non-cars.  But what is this? We're just playing with words.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Offlineclam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 1,717
Loc: twilight zone
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: Yogi1]
    #18827788 - 09/11/13 01:22 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
Because god is ambiguous by nature. God could be a mondset, view of reality, a physical creator like hyper advanced aliens, or simply another dimension of existence and consciousness. None of this even scratches the surface though. I am an agnostic atheist, and I believe in certain definitions of god.




Words are only useful because we have specific definitions for them.  Words that can be defined any which way are not useful.  Words like god, spiritual, soul, etc... useless words.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: Yogi1]
    #18827880 - 09/11/13 01:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:
People are free to believe whatever they want to believe. 

Personally I'm not religious but neither am I an atheist.  My idea of "God" is similar to Ziggity.  God is everything, and God is nothing.  In fact God is probably more nothing than everything.  You cannot define God.  I like the way Eckhart Tolle puts it - God is the space in which everything exists.





WHy arent you religious? I mean, the way you described God is clearly the same phenomena that is being written about in holy scriptures, so if you recognize this God, you are clearly on the side of religion in worldview. I think it is a shame that religion is not associated with God anymore, to such a degree that people who have known God do not consider themselves religious.

I guess I used to be like you, I considered myself spiritual but not religious.  But then after studying religion, I realized I was absolutely definitely 100% religious. Religious is the second best thing you can be, second only to self-realized. But I mean truly religious, on fire with love for God, not just checking a box that says christian, mulsim, etc.




If you cant define god you cant be religious.




I'm religious and I can't define God.


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OfflineDeviate
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Registered: 04/20/03
Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: clam_dude]
    #18827931 - 09/11/13 02:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:
People are free to believe whatever they want to believe. 

Personally I'm not religious but neither am I an atheist.  My idea of "God" is similar to Ziggity.  God is everything, and God is nothing.  In fact God is probably more nothing than everything.  You cannot define God.  I like the way Eckhart Tolle puts it - God is the space in which everything exists.




I'm always a little confused when people say "god is everything" or "god is nothing" and state that they're not an atheist.  I wonder if there is anything about mine and your world views that differs, other than using or not using the label "god."  If god is "everything," why not just use the word "everything"?




Because you might take that to mean a simple collection of material things when that is not we mean when we say God is everything. It is perhaps more correct to say that everything is God wearing a disguise or taking on different forms. I cant speak for pocketlady but I agree with the viewpoint that God is everything and nothing. God is nothing in the sense that God is not any created thing. God is a formless energy awareness which manifests as a play of forms. Its kinda like how everything on your computer screen is just your computer screen but there is an important difference between believing your computer screen is just what happens to be on it and that particular moment and recognizing that it as actually something entirely different from the image displayed on it and it has unlimited potential for displaying images. God is kinda like that. He himself is everything and yet he remains ever different from everything for he is the medium in which all appears. Your computer screen is also nothing in the sense that your computer screen itself is not any particular image. It can display any image but the screen itself, is not constrained or limited by the image it displays. The Lord our God is the same way. He can create anything but he himself remains always something different from his creation.


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Offlinecrkhd
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Registered: 12/28/08
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Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: Deviate]
    #18828067 - 09/11/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

clam_dude said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:
People are free to believe whatever they want to believe. 

Personally I'm not religious but neither am I an atheist.  My idea of "God" is similar to Ziggity.  God is everything, and God is nothing.  In fact God is probably more nothing than everything.  You cannot define God.  I like the way Eckhart Tolle puts it - God is the space in which everything exists.




I'm always a little confused when people say "god is everything" or "god is nothing" and state that they're not an atheist.  I wonder if there is anything about mine and your world views that differs, other than using or not using the label "god."  If god is "everything," why not just use the word "everything"?




Because you might take that to mean a simple collection of material things when that is not we mean when we say God is everything. It is perhaps more correct to say that everything is God wearing a disguise or taking on different forms. I cant speak for pocketlady but I agree with the viewpoint that God is everything and nothing. God is nothing in the sense that God is not any created thing. God is a formless energy awareness which manifests as a play of forms. Its kinda like how everything on your computer screen is just your computer screen but there is an important difference between believing your computer screen is just what happens to be on it and that particular moment and recognizing that it as actually something entirely different from the image displayed on it and it has unlimited potential for displaying images. God is kinda like that. He himself is everything and yet he remains ever different from everything for he is the medium in which all appears. Your computer screen is also nothing in the sense that your computer screen itself is not any particular image. It can display any image but the screen itself, is not constrained or limited by the image it displays. The Lord our God is the same way. He can create anything but he himself remains always something different from his creation.






Light! The pure substance from which photons arise, Source.

Always different from creation because... "I can do better than what I did last instant" :wink:


--------------------


"Everything there is, and all that there is, is a Pattern of unspeakable proportion. The Pattern contains everything that is, completely fixed in succession, all the minimal particles interconnected in every way that is. Every way that is is not every conceivable way, because not everything that can be conceived is manifest in the pattern."

"THE Human, you, is a miniscule but essential part of that pattern. In it lies complete fulfillment. It will never become something it is not, but it will never need to be anything else." - Wiccan_Seeker

"If boring drudgery was the way of the universe, everything would have killed itself long ago." - Spacerific


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Offlineclam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 1,717
Loc: twilight zone
Last seen: 6 years, 3 months
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: Deviate]
    #18828174 - 09/11/13 02:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

crkhd said:
Because you might take that to mean a simple collection of material things when that is not we mean when we say God is everything. It is perhaps more correct to say that everything is God wearing a disguise or taking on different forms. I cant speak for pocketlady but I agree with the viewpoint that God is everything and nothing. God is nothing in the sense that God is not any created thing. God is a formless energy awareness which manifests as a play of forms. Its kinda like how everything on your computer screen is just your computer screen but there is an important difference between believing your computer screen is just what happens to be on it and that particular moment and recognizing that it as actually something entirely different from the image displayed on it and it has unlimited potential for displaying images. God is kinda like that. He himself is everything and yet he remains ever different from everything for he is the medium in which all appears. Your computer screen is also nothing in the sense that your computer screen itself is not any particular image. It can display any image but the screen itself, is not constrained or limited by the image it displays. The Lord our God is the same way. He can create anything but he himself remains always something different from his creation.





Just for a moment, imagine that I invent a word, we'll call it _____.  Now imainge I wrote your above post, switching every instance of the word "god" with my word _____.  Now tell me, do you have any idea of what I'm talking about when I talk about ____? Do you think I have any idea of what I'm talking about? 

Under my (your) definition of ____, is there any merit in even discussing this thing, so ambiguously defined?


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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OfflineKickleM
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Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,891
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Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: clam_dude]
    #18828613 - 09/11/13 04:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Do you guys and gals have negative views of atheists and skeptics?





Sure sometimes. I don't think someone being an atheist or a skeptic should exempt them from a critical examination and anyone examined long enough shows a variety of faults, vices and less than perfect emotional stability. In the end I see another human trying to make their way in the world. Sometimes that isn't pretty or something to admire. Sometimes it is.


--------------------
Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction?
Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain


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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: Yogi1]
    #18829449 - 09/11/13 07:20 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Yogi1 said:
Quote:

clam_dude said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:
People are free to believe whatever they want to believe. 

Personally I'm not religious but neither am I an atheist.  My idea of "God" is similar to Ziggity.  God is everything, and God is nothing.  In fact God is probably more nothing than everything.  You cannot define God.  I like the way Eckhart Tolle puts it - God is the space in which everything exists.




I'm always a little confused when people say "god is everything" or "god is nothing" and state that they're not an atheist.  I wonder if there is anything about mine and your world views that differs, other than using or not using the label "god."  If god is "everything," why not just use the word "everything"?




Because god is ambiguous by nature. God could be a mondset, view of reality, a physical creator like hyper advanced aliens, or simply another dimension of existence and consciousness. None of this even scratches the surface though. I am an agnostic atheist, and I believe in certain definitions of god.





Yeah, so are most atheist. lol. They are just too stubborn to admit it, especially when they have an agenda.


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OfflineYogi1
Squatchin
Registered: 04/01/13
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Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: Deviate]
    #18829589 - 09/11/13 07:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

Yogi1 said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:
People are free to believe whatever they want to believe. 

Personally I'm not religious but neither am I an atheist.  My idea of "God" is similar to Ziggity.  God is everything, and God is nothing.  In fact God is probably more nothing than everything.  You cannot define God.  I like the way Eckhart Tolle puts it - God is the space in which everything exists.





WHy arent you religious? I mean, the way you described God is clearly the same phenomena that is being written about in holy scriptures, so if you recognize this God, you are clearly on the side of religion in worldview. I think it is a shame that religion is not associated with God anymore, to such a degree that people who have known God do not consider themselves religious.

I guess I used to be like you, I considered myself spiritual but not religious.  But then after studying religion, I realized I was absolutely definitely 100% religious. Religious is the second best thing you can be, second only to self-realized. But I mean truly religious, on fire with love for God, not just checking a box that says christian, mulsim, etc.




If you cant define god you cant be religious.




I'm religious and I can't define God.




Religion is defined by believing in a defined dogma. A person who believes but does not follow dogma is not religious.... Basic definition is basic...


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InvisibleFuturesight
Mind Mage
Male


Registered: 01/19/13
Posts: 1,188
Loc: The Candy Kingdom
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: Yogi1]
    #18829844 - 09/11/13 08:45 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

And when it all comes down to it, I love to think about what there might be, to explore it. But then at the same time, I think that it takes away from the waking experience. Which prevents us from really enjoying our stay on this beautiful rock.


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Offlineclam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 1,717
Loc: twilight zone
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Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: teknix]
    #18830524 - 09/11/13 11:01 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:

Because god is ambiguous by nature. God could be a mondset, view of reality, a physical creator like hyper advanced aliens, or simply another dimension of existence and consciousness. None of this even scratches the surface though. I am an agnostic atheist, and I believe in certain definitions of god.





Yeah, so are most atheist. lol. They are just too stubborn to admit it, especially when they have an agenda.




Most atheists are too stubborn to admit they're agnostic atheists? I have yet to meet an atheist who won't admit that, and I don't think you've met any either.  I bet you're just making things up.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Offlineclam_dude
stranger in astrange land

Registered: 09/10/03
Posts: 1,717
Loc: twilight zone
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Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: clam_dude]
    #18830528 - 09/11/13 11:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Either that or the atheists you hang around are very misinformed ones.


--------------------
"I would like to thank god for making me an atheist" - Ricky Gervais


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Invisibleteknix
π“‚€βŸπ“…’π“π“…ƒπ“Š°π“‰‘ 𓁼𓆗⨻
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Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 11,953
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: clam_dude]
    #18830892 - 09/12/13 12:57 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Quote:

teknix said:
Quote:

PocketLady said:

Because god is ambiguous by nature. God could be a mondset, view of reality, a physical creator like hyper advanced aliens, or simply another dimension of existence and consciousness. None of this even scratches the surface though. I am an agnostic atheist, and I believe in certain definitions of god.





Yeah, so are most atheist. lol. They are just too stubborn to admit it, especially when they have an agenda.




Most atheists are too stubborn to admit they're agnostic atheists? I have yet to meet an atheist who won't admit that, and I don't think you've met any either.  I bet you're just making things up.




Then why you calling yourself atheist bro?

:lol:

IE; if an Atheist is calling himself an atheist then they are not admitting that they are really agnostic . . .

You are evidence of it, so how am I making it up?

:heytherebadboy:


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OfflineDeviate
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Posts: 4,497
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
Re: Do you guys have negative views of atheists and skeptics? [Re: clam_dude]
    #18830937 - 09/12/13 01:30 AM (10 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

clam_dude said:
Quote:

Deviate said:
I can get annoyed with atheists when they behave extremely arrogantly and confrontationally. I think what gets on my nerves about them, is how they claim to hold logic and reason in such high regard, and then make all kinds of logical errors in their attack on religion.




I haven't made any logical errors in my attack on religion (that I'm aware of).  Maybe you could point out some common examples.  Also, an illogical argument is simply an illogical argument.  It's not reflective at all of atheists as a whole (atheism simply being lack of belief in a god)




Did I say anywhere that I was referring to you?


Quote:


Perhaps most atheists are in fact aware of the many versions of religion.  It's just that they can't address everyone's idea of religion at once.  So they address the most common forms.  I happen to think that there are as many versions of religion or god as there are believers.  To me, this reinforces the notion that god is a man made construct. 




As opposed to? All concepts held in the minds of men are in a sense man made. This is why I like the Buddhist analogy of the purpose of religion as being like that of a raft. You use the raft to get yourself across a river but you dont continue to carry it around with you everywhere after that. Similarly, religion was intended to get one to awaken, or to come to knowledge of God, not to be clung to as an end in itself.

Quote:


But to be clear, you don't think that being an atheist makes one arrogant, do you? 




I never said that all atheists were arrogant, I said that I can get annoyed by those atheists who are arrogant and very confrontational. Of course I have met non arrogant, respectful atheists and I am not annoyed by them.

Quote:


I wouldn't say I "don't know anything" about the universe, but I admittedly know very, very little.  As does everyone.  Nobody knows weather or not there is a god.




How do you know that no one knows whether there is a god? How can you be certain of that?

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So when people claim there is a god, they are the ones making a baseless claim.  Just like you, I know very little and it follows that I don't know there is a god.  My position is one of ignorance.  I don't believe in god. 

I find it amusing when theists call atheists arrogant, and then state as fact that there is a god.  How do they know something we don't?  If someone wants to admit ignorance, and use the "hey, we don't know anything about the universe" line, then surely this person must realize they can't claim to know there is a god.  And yet they do claim this.  And they call people who make no such statement arrogant.  :confused:




My realization that I did not really know anything about reality and thus my almost completely unquestioned assumption that materialism was correct was absurd came years before I even seriously began thinking about God. It was simply the first step in a process which lead to an overhaul in my worldview from atheist to Christian. My point was that atheists will frequently question religious assumptions while operating under a different yet equally unproven set of assumptions.

As for how we can know something you don't, that shouldn't be hard to understand. People know things other people don't all the time. In the case of God, its really a matter of Him revealing Himself to you, which he will do if you seek him earnestly.

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If by "seeing things like them" you mean admitting that we know very little about the universe, then yes.  Like I said before, nobody knows enough to claim there is a god. 





If it's not possible to know whether or not there is a god, its not possible to know for certain that nobody knows enough to claim there is a god. How can you possibly know that? Do you know the minds of others? If not, you cannot possibly guess at what they contain, what these peoples experience of life is like and what leads them to make the claims that they make. It is arrogant to assume you know the limits of the minds of others.



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Well that's a nice little mind game.  When you say "beyond the intellect" I have no idea what you mean.  And I don't think you do either.  You're saying it "not intellect".  Well, why don't you tell me what it is, not what it isn't.  Same thing goes for non-material things.  People claim to believe in the non-material.  Well this isn't a thing to believe in.  It's just not material.  I believe in non-cars.  But what is this? We're just playing with words.




I'm not playing with words or maybe we're all just playing with words but I am not intentionally playing with words here to any greater degree than in anything else ive said. It's not my fault if you lack sufficient experience in these matters to understand what I am referring to.

Of course you don't know what I mean. If you did, you would be aware of God also like many other shroomerites who post here and understand each other though they appear to be talking about nonsense from your point of view.  I wish I could give you a satisfactory explanation, I just don't think it is possible. God is something everyone must discover for themselves. One thing I can promise you though is that you will be extremely shocked/surprised at just what God is. It could be like one of those "of course, how could I not see that?" moments.

By beyond the intellect, I mean beyond conceptualization. Beyond mental chatter in the stillness of being. If you analyze your current experience, you will see that it contains sensory data, thoughts and mental images and consciousness. If you remove the middle one of those three, a new dimension of awareness will gradually begin to open up. This is where you will eventually discover the inner glory, the pure source of your being which humans have traditionally called God.

The fact that you think I cant possibly know whether is a god or not is merely a reflection of your inability to conceive of the way I experience life. To me God is a real aspect of my experience of life, just as real as rain or snow or sunshine. Of course I dont claim to know that any of those exist in any sort of objective sense, but I know they exist as part of my experience and other peoples as well. hence it makes sense to talk about them. Its the same thing with God. God is the source of all happiness, goodness, peace and rest for the soul. You can look at God as sort of a deep spring of bliss and happiness that exists within you which can only be found when you stop looking for happiness outside and devote yourself to searching for it within.

I have been romancing this spring for a little while now and while the path is incredibly difficult at times (Christians actually call these dry periods, so it really fits well with the spring analogy), but the positives experienced are absolutely unreal levels of happiness and bliss. The more engulfed in this bliss you become, the more absurd debates about the existence of God seem. There is absolutely no question whether the experience is real to you, you don't even care, it's not even a concern of yours, because you have finally found the source of the peace and happiness you've longed for your whole life. So what can an atheist say? That this inner happiness I have been cultivating is some sort of delusion? Well guess what, I don't care. It doesn't interfere with my ability to do anything, on the contrary I feel saner, and more mindful and much wiser the closer I am to this mysterious spring of joy and wisdom I call God. Dont you see that even if it is a "delusion" it is still something? Its not something made up, its something that can actually be experienced and has been experienced by millions of people and for which there are all kinds of complicated holy texts describing and different techniques for experiencing it. Do you think all these people from all different cultures throughout the ages who devoted countless hours to describing and discussing spiritual states of consciousness were all just talking about nothing and agreeing on rules and techniques about nothing that accomplish nothing? Of course not! They were motivated by the search for happiness, which is common to all, only spiritual people have taken to searching for happiness at its source instead of in the world.

So I cant tell you exactly what it is, but I can tell you it is certainly a real phenomenon and certainly an interesting and valuable phenomenon if you like to be extremely happy and peaceful.


Edited by Deviate (09/12/13 01:36 AM)


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