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cdc219
Stranger

Registered: 04/28/13
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Last seen: 4 years, 27 days
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Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help
#18829443 - 09/11/13 07:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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So the last 4 monotubs I have done have been lost the same way at about the same time, to trich. I incubate for 14 days during colonization, put into fruiting and everything looks great. Around day 5, I notice a yellow color at the very bottom of the tub, I think its under the liner. I believe what is happening is water is condensating on the top and sides, running down the sides and getting traped under the liner. When it sits there for several days, bacteria sets in and trich takes over. Do I have too much condensation if its visible all over? I had grown 6 successful tubs prior, and I used liners on them. Can anyone give me any suggestions? Its a lot of work to get these things going and to lose them just before fruiting,..... well its driving me crazy. Any input appreciated. Thanks.
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Nice Ol Bud
Apprentice


Registered: 09/11/13
Posts: 162
Loc: Mystical Maze of Mushroom...
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: cdc219]
#18829597 - 09/11/13 07:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would not be a happy camper. I'll keep posted on this as I too have been hearing a lot of trich problems with tubs.
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Blake_Shroom
Stranger



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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: Nice Ol Bud]
#18829625 - 09/11/13 07:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Substrate? Jar prep?
If you're using coir and and you properly pastuerize and it contains before first flush, your spawn was the problem.
Give us more info so we can diagnose your problem
Also, don't incubate anything except for petris (and jars of your temp is too cold) or you run a good chance at bacteria. The few days you.might save isn't worth the chance
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cdc219
Stranger

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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: Blake_Shroom]
#18829715 - 09/11/13 08:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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OK. Substrate is coir/verm/gypsum. I brick of coir, 2 quarts of verm, bit of gypsum to one gallon water. Field capacity (few drops when squeezed), pasteurized to 160 for 30 min. Spawn is wbs jars, 6 quart jars to substrate. % jars mixed throughout, one jar as a frosting layer mixed in an inch. Sub is 4 inches deep with a plastic liner underneath. I use a garbage bag cut to fit. 1 inch holes at substrate height and 1 inch holes at top, packed with polyfill(maybe too tightly?). I dont think the polyfill is too tight but the water condensation and collection at the bottom makes me wonder if I'm not getting enough air flow. Put in a closet with a daylight cfl, on/off 12. As far as spawn being the problem,.... wouldnt the problem present itself before 2 weeks had passed? I mean, I prep the tubs and cover em up for 2 weeks. When I pull them out, the top is perfectly white. The bottom shows no sign of contams ( I can see the white through the liner). After about 5 days, the yellow appears on the bottom, patches start discoloring on top, and then bam. Green starts growing.
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cdc219
Stranger

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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: cdc219]
#18829725 - 09/11/13 08:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The jars are kept in a closet during colonization, the house is 78. The closet may be a bit hotter but not much. When I allow my tubs to colonize, they are kept in the closet as well. So the temps never get above, I would say, 82
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cdc219
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: cdc219]
#18829734 - 09/11/13 08:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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And i am wrong about the pastuerization temp. It is closer to 175-180.
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leon trout
Estimated Prophet



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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: cdc219]
#18829749 - 09/11/13 08:19 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
cdc219 said: pasteurized to 160 for 30 min.
that does not sound right... gonna need 60 minutes at temp to properly pasteurize...
&anything over 165 is no bueno man... yr pasteurization is failing you, look up frank's proper pasteurization tek... follow it... you'll get this thing straightened right out...
-------------------- “I read somewhere that 77 per cent of all the mentally ill live in poverty. Actually, I’m more intrigued by the 23 per cent who are apparently doing quite well for themselves.” ~ St. Jerome of Marin
the bus come by & i got on, that's when it all began
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Blake_Shroom
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: leon trout]
#18829767 - 09/11/13 08:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Frosting layers are outdated. Grain can dry out and it then becomes a great place for contains to grow. How long do u sterilize your jars? How do u inoculate?
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cdc219
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: Blake_Shroom]
#18829798 - 09/11/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sterilize for 1 hour in pressure cooker. As far as the pasteurization, I will try a lower temp. The thing thats driving me crazy is I did tubs for 3 months and never had a problem. Harvested many ounces,... I used the same techniques and pasteurized at 175. I used Ohmatics easy coir tek and it says to get the temp to 170 (and that it will get into the 200 range) http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=9289857&page=0&vc=1&PHPSESSID=#Post9289857
So no one thinks the liner and condensation is the issue?
Also, the next one I do will lack the frosting layer. I'll try and remember to post results.
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Blake_Shroom
Stranger



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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: cdc219]
#18829857 - 09/11/13 08:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think its more your spawn than your pasteurization. But get that in order too
How do u inoculate? Ms spore syringe? Agar? I would also suggest at least 1.5 hours at 15 psi. Do u use qrt jars? How big of a PC?
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kinkaku
I AM THE LAW!!!!




Registered: 04/02/13
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: Blake_Shroom]
#18829904 - 09/11/13 09:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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is your tub dialed in right? there should be dry rings around the polyfill check out franks how to dial in mano's. as for the pasteurize raise the time a bit and coir can be pretty tricky sometimes.
also does your tub colonize at all befor it contams?
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cdc219
Stranger

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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: Blake_Shroom]
#18829925 - 09/11/13 09:05 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Noc with spore syringe. I flame sterilize the tip then wipe with alcohol soaked paper towel.(I guess if I take a spore print and make syringes, it is called multispore?) I use quart jars, small pc. Only takes 2 quart jars at a time so when I make jars, it takes all day:(
I'll figure it out. Just thought it was the water pooling under the liner. Should there be visible condensate on the sides and top? Cant remember how the first (successful) tubs looked.
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cdc219
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: cdc219]
#18829937 - 09/11/13 09:07 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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My tub colonizes completely! Thats why I cant understand where the contams are coming from. Also, thats why I dont think its the spawn because if it was, I would think contams would show before complete colonization (2weeks). I just threw the tub out, so I cant check it now. But I will check out the link you sent.
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kinkaku
I AM THE LAW!!!!




Registered: 04/02/13
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: cdc219]
#18829944 - 09/11/13 09:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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ya it sounds to me that maybe your tubs weren't dialed in right
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PhosCap
Gratuitous Heavenly Grace



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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: cdc219]
#18830016 - 09/11/13 09:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
cdc219 said: The jars are kept in a closet during colonization, the house is 78. The closet may be a bit hotter but not much. When I allow my tubs to colonize, they are kept in the closet as well. So the temps never get above, I would say, 82
And also.. if your closet is 80 then inside your tub will be 82-84ish.
IF your spawn is good then most likely its your pasteurized substrate giving you grief. Ya need to fix a procedure for your sub.
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cdc219
Stranger

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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: kinkaku]
#18830105 - 09/11/13 09:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Got a link for Franks how to Dial In Monos?
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kinkaku
I AM THE LAW!!!!




Registered: 04/02/13
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: cdc219]
#18830127 - 09/11/13 09:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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GimpCollector
To Drunk To Taste The Chicken

Registered: 02/08/12
Posts: 1,097
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: PhosCap]
#18830169 - 09/11/13 09:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I mine as well be inoculating in a dumpster with my grains, as I pretty much do it open air with the AC blasting, and the snake cages 5 feet away.
I say snake cages, because they shit, and over night, their shit turns into a furry Caterpillar.
But grains they seem pretty fucking resilient, compared to the BRF tek that I wasted a year on. As long as I let them consolidate, shake the fuck out of them, let them recover, then spawn to grain jars, or spawn to tubs (Damians 50/50) they seem pretty hardy. Yeah I spelled Damian wrong, deal with it.
Anyway, I don't think heat is your problem, as I live in Phoenix, and my house is usually 78 De-grees, and my shit is in the closet that runs 5 de-grees hotter. Check your method, you are hitting the same common denominator everytime and it's blowing your shit up. Think about your steps.
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azur
God of Fuck


Registered: 04/21/12
Posts: 28,103
Loc: Daid
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: kinkaku]
#18830195 - 09/11/13 09:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here's my take: You're not sterilizing as you need 90 min You're not properly pasteurizing as you need 60 min Also, summer time always fucks with me with everything in the air.
I suggest you do what I had to do and start from scratch. And be meticulous. Good luck
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kinkaku
I AM THE LAW!!!!




Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1,322
Loc: Россия
Last seen: 8 years, 1 month
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: azur]
#18830205 - 09/11/13 09:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
azur said: Here's my take: You're not sterilizing as you need 90 min You're not properly pasteurizing as you need 60 min Also, summer time always fucks with me with everything in the air.
I suggest you do what I had to do and start from scratch. And be meticulous. Good luck
jesus guys read the whole thread before you post. is bulk sub was completely colonized
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azur
God of Fuck


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Posts: 28,103
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: kinkaku]
#18830256 - 09/11/13 09:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I read the thread. Mine were colonized too. Trich starts out white though. I'm only speaking from the same experience I had as him.
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Gretchenmeister
Starbeing/Psilocybin Savant



Registered: 07/23/05
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: cdc219]
#18830275 - 09/11/13 10:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
cdc219 said: OK. Substrate is coir/verm/gypsum. I brick of coir, 2 quarts of verm, bit of gypsum to one gallon water. Field capacity (few drops when squeezed), pasteurized to 160 for 30 min. Spawn is wbs jars, 6 quart jars to substrate. % jars mixed throughout, one jar as a frosting layer mixed in an inch. Sub is 4 inches deep with a plastic liner underneath. I use a garbage bag cut to fit. 1 inch holes at substrate height and 1 inch holes at top, packed with polyfill(maybe too tightly?). I dont think the polyfill is too tight but the water condensation and collection at the bottom makes me wonder if I'm not getting enough air flow. Put in a closet with a daylight cfl, on/off 12. As far as spawn being the problem,.... wouldnt the problem present itself before 2 weeks had passed? I mean, I prep the tubs and cover em up for 2 weeks. When I pull them out, the top is perfectly white. The bottom shows no sign of contams ( I can see the white through the liner). After about 5 days, the yellow appears on the bottom, patches start discoloring on top, and then bam. Green starts growing.
I have a couple of suggestions.
1. Go ahead and pasteurize for a full hour. And let it cool on its own.
2. Take a look at your grain spawn prep. Lotta times when contams rear their heads during the time frame you are speaking of it can be traced back to endospores not being properly hatched out, lying dormant, then busting out. Endospores are hit and miss from bag to bag of grain and will depend on many factors including how old the grain is. Standard practice to properly eliminate endospore germination requires 24hours of hydration to ensure they fully hatch prior to pc.
Could be many things but according to your information I lean towards focusing on those two items.
Also be sure you are keeping your tubs up off the ground by at least 3 feet. You probably are but thought I would throw that in there. Keep in mind other types of molds are green too, including some kinds of penicilliums aka common bread mold.
-------------------- What's wrong with folks? Point your IRC client to irc.socialirc.com, port 6667, #cultivation and #shroomery for live chat with like minded hobbyists and connoisseurs. Mush Porn
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Uhurungus
Avoiderer of Bullshit


Registered: 04/20/13
Posts: 838
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what's your spawn ratio? 14 days is a long ass time. even IF you were doing PE. i spawn between 1:3 and 1:4 and usually i'm putting tubs in fruiting between days 5 and 7. i dont know for sure but that extra week it's sitting there doing whatever it's doing, in that no fresh air environment sounds like a recipe for disaster.
cut your colonization time down, stop consolidating (if you even are) and let them puppies breathe!
-------------------- I'm never 100% on anything, just close enough to risk looking foolish.
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Nice Ol Bud
Apprentice


Registered: 09/11/13
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Loc: Mystical Maze of Mushroom...
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Re: Keep Losing Monotubs,... Help [Re: Uhurungus]
#18833616 - 09/12/13 06:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Uhurungus said: what's your spawn ratio? 14 days is a long ass time. even IF you were doing PE. i spawn between 1:3 and 1:4 and usually i'm putting tubs in fruiting between days 5 and 7. i dont know for sure but that extra week it's sitting there doing whatever it's doing, in that no fresh air environment sounds like a recipe for disaster.
cut your colonization time down, stop consolidating (if you even are) and let them puppies breathe!
Ya I agree. Definitely use more spawn so they have a bigger army.. faster colonization time.. & thus allowing FAE earlier along the lines so the trich doesn't get too attached too fast.
That's if it's settling in while prepping your tubs. Your spawns a whole different ball game.
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Edited by Nice Ol Bud (09/12/13 06:17 PM)
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