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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: Patlal] 1
#18828653 - 09/11/13 04:36 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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The two are also not correlated with eachother. Minimum wage doesnt dictate what prices are charged for what. Supply and demand does.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#18828675 - 09/11/13 04:43 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: The two are also not correlated with eachother. Minimum wage doesnt dictate what prices are charged for what. Supply and demand does.
Really? I don't know where you live but everywhere I've lived the prices did go up when minimum wage increased.
Seems the business owners (rightly) passed the cost of the wage increase on to their customers.
Funny thing, I do the same in my businesses.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#18828685 - 09/11/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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By what degree? Also did this only occur in places where their employee base is strictly min wage employees or was it uniform?
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: Patlal]
#18828686 - 09/11/13 04:46 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Nope. Some item aren't elastic. Therefore if the price go up, the sale goes down. You have to take elasticity in account before stating that the price will go up if wages go up.
Price elasticity does not tie in to the effect of a minimum wage increase on the price of goods. Very few consumer items are Giffen Goods
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#18828692 - 09/11/13 04:47 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: The two are also not correlated with eachother. Minimum wage doesnt dictate what prices are charged for what. Supply and demand does.
Correct.
So when the demand for Good X stays the same, and the cost to supply Good X increases, we get a price increase.
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: blackglass6219]
#18828702 - 09/11/13 04:49 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
blackglass6219 said: you do realize that if minimum wage were increased, the price of things would just go up?
Nonsense, that is like saying full employment is also inflationary, it's not true.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: qman]
#18828706 - 09/11/13 04:50 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
blackglass6219 said: you do realize that if minimum wage were increased, the price of things would just go up?
Nonsense, that is like saying full employment is also inflationary, it's not true.
his claim is not without merit, and please back up your argument to the contrary with something besides a simile. tell us why its not true.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#18828710 - 09/11/13 04:51 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: By what degree? Also did this only occur in places where their employee base is strictly min wage employees or was it uniform?
Not a huge degree, but I know few people who when faced with an increase in their costs who do not pass it on to their customers.
I haven't owned a business that pays minimum in some time, but the members of the business groups I'm in all* raise their prices in similar circumstances.
* all = those I'm close enough to to discuss such things.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: memes]
#18828745 - 09/11/13 04:57 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
memes said:
Quote:
qman said:
Quote:
blackglass6219 said: you do realize that if minimum wage were increased, the price of things would just go up?
Nonsense, that is like saying full employment is also inflationary, it's not true.
his claim is not without merit, and please back up your argument to the contrary with something besides a simile. tell us why its not true.
He made the original assertion, let him back up his claim, and not just say "his claim is not without merit". I will be happy to defend my position when he starts to defend his claim.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: qman] 3
#18828753 - 09/11/13 04:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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lol, fucking internet.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: memes]
#18828757 - 09/11/13 04:59 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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qman
Stranger

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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: memes]
#18828924 - 09/11/13 05:26 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, there are many ways in which hiking the minimum wage is not necessarily inflationary, here are just a few.
1. The business may simply reduce it's workforce, less workers does not create more demand.
2. Does the high profitability (from low wages) create inflation? Someone gets the money from the profit margin, are the wage earnings more inflationary than the shareholder profit?
3. Does more demand create higher prices? Maybe in the short term, but what is the best solution to higher prices? Higher prices!! Yes, before you know it, producers jump into the equation and supply increases in short order, remember the spike price in food commodities in 2010-11? Today, corn, wheat, sugar and other soft commodities are down in the dumps, farmers got all excited and produced more than enough to kill the price.
4. When does the producer/business hike prices when wages go higher? Only when they can, otherwise it's profitability that takes the hit. To say that an increase in wages automatically equates to an increase in the final product is false, in a competitive economic environment, the ability to have pricing power is difficult.
5. The % rate of profit margins- are a key part to the equation, today's corporate profit margins are at a all-time high, so there is plenty of room for higher wage growth without killing the bottom line. During the 1970's, wages were high (tight labor market) and profit margins were squeezed, stock prices were in the doghouse, yet the average US worker was doing just great.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: qman] 1
#18828945 - 09/11/13 05:30 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Well, there are many ways in which hiking the minimum wage is not necessarily inflationary, here are just a few.
1. The business may simply reduce it's workforce, less workers does not create more demand.
2. Does the high profitability (from low wages) create inflation? Someone gets the money from the profit margin, are the wage earnings more inflationary than the shareholder profit?
3. Does more demand create higher prices? Maybe in the short term, but what is the best solution to higher prices? Higher prices!! Yes, before you know it, producers jump into the equation and supply increases in short order, remember the spike price in food commodities in 2010-11? Today, corn, wheat, sugar and other soft commodities are down in the dumps, farmers got all excited and produced more than enough to kill the price.
4. When does the producer/business hike prices when wages go higher? Only when they can, otherwise it's profitability that takes the hit. To say that an increase in wages automatically equates to an increase in the final product is false, in a competitive economic environment, the ability to have pricing power is difficult.
5. The % rate of profit margins- are a key part to the equation, today's corporate profit margins are at a all-time high, so there is plenty of room for higher wage growth without killing the bottom line. During the 1970's, wages were high (tight labor market) and profit margins were squeezed, stock prices were in the doghouse, yet the average US worker was doing just great.
i'll just leave. thanks.
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NWlight
Just look


Registered: 01/12/10
Posts: 18,686
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: memes]
#18828952 - 09/11/13 05:32 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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explain briefly in everyday language why it is facepalm worthy?
I'm a science geek I don't get a lot of this economics stuff
it's that I can't contribute to threads like this as much as you guys haha I always get in over my head
--------------------

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Bodhi of Ankou
*alternate opinion blocks path*


Registered: 06/02/09
Posts: 24,778
Loc: Soviet Canukistan
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#18828954 - 09/11/13 05:33 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: By what degree? Also did this only occur in places where their employee base is strictly min wage employees or was it uniform?
Not a huge degree, but I know few people who when faced with an increase in their costs who do not pass it on to their customers.
I haven't owned a business that pays minimum in some time, but the members of the business groups I'm in all* raise their prices in similar circumstances.
* all = those I'm close enough to to discuss such things.
So in other words it was completely sporadic and the belief that "well it'll just be compensated for with price increases" is false, is it not?
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: memes]
#18828960 - 09/11/13 05:34 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
memes said:
Quote:
qman said: Well, there are many ways in which hiking the minimum wage is not necessarily inflationary, here are just a few.
1. The business may simply reduce it's workforce, less workers does not create more demand.
2. Does the high profitability (from low wages) create inflation? Someone gets the money from the profit margin, are the wage earnings more inflationary than the shareholder profit?
3. Does more demand create higher prices? Maybe in the short term, but what is the best solution to higher prices? Higher prices!! Yes, before you know it, producers jump into the equation and supply increases in short order, remember the spike price in food commodities in 2010-11? Today, corn, wheat, sugar and other soft commodities are down in the dumps, farmers got all excited and produced more than enough to kill the price.
4. When does the producer/business hike prices when wages go higher? Only when they can, otherwise it's profitability that takes the hit. To say that an increase in wages automatically equates to an increase in the final product is false, in a competitive economic environment, the ability to have pricing power is difficult.
5. The % rate of profit margins- are a key part to the equation, today's corporate profit margins are at a all-time high, so there is plenty of room for higher wage growth without killing the bottom line. During the 1970's, wages were high (tight labor market) and profit margins were squeezed, stock prices were in the doghouse, yet the average US worker was doing just great.
i'll just leave. thanks.
I guess my post was worth it then.
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memes
Blessed



Registered: 01/11/05
Posts: 27,785
Loc: In a Tree
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: qman]
#18828979 - 09/11/13 05:39 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yep! You're the smart!
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: Bodhi of Ankou]
#18829036 - 09/11/13 05:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said:
Quote:
luvdemshrooms said:
Quote:
Bodhi of Ankou said: By what degree? Also did this only occur in places where their employee base is strictly min wage employees or was it uniform?
Not a huge degree, but I know few people who when faced with an increase in their costs who do not pass it on to their customers.
I haven't owned a business that pays minimum in some time, but the members of the business groups I'm in all* raise their prices in similar circumstances.
* all = those I'm close enough to to discuss such things.
So in other words it was completely sporadic and the belief that "well it'll just be compensated for with price increases" is false, is it not?
No. It is not (IME). An increase in expenses is passed on to the consumer.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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qman
Stranger

Registered: 12/06/06
Posts: 34,927
Last seen: 3 days, 16 hours
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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: memes]
#18829044 - 09/11/13 05:54 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
memes said: Yep! You're the smart!
The very same people (the economically poor and minorities) that you claim to have such a special place in your heart for, are the ones you have no interest in helping in the real world.
So far in this thread, you have advocated for legitimizing the illegal foreign worker (which fucks over the unskilled US worker more than anything), and not hiking the miniman wage (which is at a 30-40 year low in real terms), because of a irrational fear of inflation.
You aren't any advocate to the economically disadvantaged, you're a big hypocrite.
Edited by qman (09/11/13 05:55 PM)
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Schmendrick
Last of the Red Hot Swamis



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Re: 76% of Americans live paycheck to paycheck [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#18829045 - 09/11/13 05:55 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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I don't know what you guys are bitching about. I love $45 hamburgers... when I was younger I bought a few of them inadvertently (went to Burger King without the funds in my account, and got an overdraft fee).
They tasted all the sweeter once I knew I had REALLY paid for them.
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