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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
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NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel
#18827933 - 09/11/13 02:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan] 2
#18827959 - 09/11/13 02:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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My thought is you should read forum rule 3 before a mod locks your thread.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#18827965 - 09/11/13 02:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
luvdemshrooms said: My thought is you should read forum rule 3 before a mod locks your thread.
Thanks, this is the first time I've posted in the forum.
"3) Threads consisting of nothing more than a link, quote, or a video with no commentary or discussion from the threadstarter will be locked."
Okay so to stop this from being lock I need to post more then a link?
Do I need to edit the OP or can I add it to this post?
Edited by maynardjameskeenan (09/11/13 02:17 PM)
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
#18827967 - 09/11/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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No problem. They just want thread starters to get the ball rolling.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#18828008 - 09/11/13 02:24 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wonder if it's just a coincidence that they decided to released these leaks on the anniversary of 9/11, they have (The Guardian) had this information for a few months now.
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
#18828021 - 09/11/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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So?
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Mush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

Registered: 07/31/13
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18828027 - 09/11/13 02:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: So?
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18828034 - 09/11/13 02:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: So?
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#18828098 - 09/11/13 02:41 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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This doesn't bother anyone? Not only are you being spied on but the government hands over all your raw private data to a foreign nation.
"Notably, a much stricter rule was set for US government communications found in the raw intelligence. The Israelis were required to "destroy upon recognition" any communication "that is either to or from an official of the US government". Such communications included those of "officials of the executive branch (including the White House, cabinet departments, and independent agencies), the US House of Representatives and Senate (member and staff) and the US federal court system (including, but not limited to, the supreme court)".
This is on an honor system with no over-site from the US.
Why is it okay from them to basically spy on US citizens but not the government?
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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Mush4Brains
LOOL HACKED!!!

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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
#18828154 - 09/11/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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What would Israel or the United States government want to do with a pot smoking 20-something who isn't overtly politically active?
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Mush4Brains]
#18828190 - 09/11/13 02:58 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well if they keep your data permanently, I would guess you wont always be a "pot smoking 20-something who isn't overtly politically active". If you ever cause to much of a stir (try to challenge the power structure) they could use that data to blackmail or discredit you. We all have things we need to hide, how would you feel if someone was looking over your shoulder every time you picked up an electronic device?
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan] 1
#18828386 - 09/11/13 03:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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LOL. What do you suppose anybody could do with the entire trove of private data of everybody? The sheer volume would bury them.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18828491 - 09/11/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: LOL. What do you suppose anybody could do with the entire trove of private data of everybody? The sheer volume would bury them.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/31/nsa-top-secret-program-online-data
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
#18828878 - 09/11/13 05:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah and then what? Do you not understand that huge a pile of data is incomprehensible.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18828991 - 09/11/13 05:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
#18829105 - 09/11/13 06:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't want to break your heart but at some point a person has to read the data.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18829154 - 09/11/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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They have computer programs to read the data old man, this is obviously beyond your generations technological unferstanding. Search bots can sift through the data and compile things of interest. A user could also input search parameters to look up particular things.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod] 1
#18829158 - 09/11/13 06:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I don't want to break your heart
Quote:
zappaisgod said: So?
Quote:
zappaisgod said: LOL.
Whats the deal man? Have I offended you in some way?
I came here for a discussion not playground banter, I realize now this isn't the place to find what I was after.
I would like to discuses the topic at hand but not if this continues.
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
Edited by maynardjameskeenan (09/11/13 06:26 PM)
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Shins]
#18829196 - 09/11/13 06:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: They have computer programs to read the data old man, this is obviously beyond your generations technological unferstanding. Search bots can sift through the data and compile things of interest. A user could also input search parameters to look up particular things.
So? At some point a human has to read the shit.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18829252 - 09/11/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: They have computer programs to read the data old man, this is obviously beyond your generations technological unferstanding. Search bots can sift through the data and compile things of interest. A user could also input search parameters to look up particular things.
So? At some point a human has to read the shit.
I don't understand your point, zappa. The computers can sift through the interesting data surprisingly quickly and compile it in much easier to read forms. The people at the NSA definitely have the capacity to read and understand this data, otherwise, they wouldn't be collecting it. I don't see why Israel wouldn't be able to do the same.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18829256 - 09/11/13 06:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: They have computer programs to read the data old man, this is obviously beyond your generations technological unferstanding. Search bots can sift through the data and compile things of interest. A user could also input search parameters to look up particular things.
So? At some point a human has to read the shit.
correct. But that is after computer sort it out first. I would assume they keep a log of every citizen and their electronic activities. If you read the first Snowden leak he going into it in detail about the how they keep data on people.
Edward Snowden has also said:
“I also had the capability without any warrant to search for, seize, and read your communications. Anyone’s communications at any time. That is the power to change people’s fates.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information_Awareness_Office#Components_of_TIA_projects_that_continue_to_be_developed
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
#18829291 - 09/11/13 06:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Edward Snowden has also said:
“I also had the capability without any warrant to search for, seize, and read your communications. Anyone’s communications at any time. That is the power to change people’s fates.”
Snowden has overstated his power and abilities at the NSA before, and I think he was lying when he said that.
http://news.yahoo.com/5-ways-nsa-leaker-edward-snowdens-story-isnt-115500971.html
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/305409-house-intel-chiefs-snowden-lying
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: BoldAsLove]
#18829294 - 09/11/13 06:52 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said: I don't see why Israel wouldn't be able to do the same.
With Americas citizens private data?
He is a pretty good copy and paste from the reddit post;
"Thanks to Snowden, we now know the NSA:
Had James Clapper lie under oath to us - on camera - to Congress to hide the domestic spying programs Occured in March. .
Warrantlessly accesses records of every phone call that routes through the US thousands of times a day.
Steals your private data from every major web company (Facebook, Google, Apple, Microsoft, et al) via PRISM and pays them millions for it August.
Pays major US telecommunications providers (AT&T, Verizon, et al) between $278,000,000-$394,000,000 annually to provide secret access to all US fiber and cellular networks (in violation of the 4th amendment).
Intentionally weakened the encryption standards we rely on, put backdoors into critical software, and break the crypto on our private communications
NSA employees use these powers to spy on their US citizen lovers via LOVEINT, and only get caught if they self-confess. Though this is a felony, none were ever been charged with a crime.
Lied to us again just ten days ago, claiming they never perform economic espionage (whoops!) before a new leak revealed that they do all the time.
Made over fifteen thousand false certifications to the secret FISA court, leading a judge to rule they "frequently and systemically violated" court orders in a manner "directly contrary to the sworn attestations of several executive branch officials," that 90% of their searches were unlawful, and that they "repeatedly misled the court."
Has programs that collect data on US Supreme Court Justices and elected officials, and they secretly provide it to Israel regulated only by an honor system."
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
#18829307 - 09/11/13 06:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said: I don't see why Israel wouldn't be able to do the same.
With Americas citizens private data?
Yes. I believe that they have access to the raw data and they have the same, or at least similar, capabilities of analysis as the NSA. I don't see why they wouldn't be able to analyze the data in the same manner.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: BoldAsLove]
#18829338 - 09/11/13 07:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
Edward Snowden has also said:
“I also had the capability without any warrant to search for, seize, and read your communications. Anyone’s communications at any time. That is the power to change people’s fates.”
Snowden has overstated his power and abilities at the NSA before, and I think he was lying when he said that.
http://news.yahoo.com/5-ways-nsa-leaker-edward-snowdens-story-isnt-115500971.html
http://thehill.com/homenews/house/305409-house-intel-chiefs-snowden-lying
I have a hard time trusting anything coming from NSA Director or any congressmen.
Maybe Snowden is untrustworthy, I don't know who to believe anymore but I don't think him "2. He reportedly left his home on May 1" or "1. Snowden overstated his salary" makes him an untrustworthy source of information. If he was a liar no one would make a fuss about what he says.
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
#18829452 - 09/11/13 07:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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What do you think of "3. Snowden didn't have the 'authority' to wiretap anybody" or "4.He might not have had the ability to do so, either?" I think the fact that he lies about other things damages his credibility, and I see absolutely no reason to believe him when he makes boastful claims regarding his position at the NSA.
People are making a fuss about what he says because it's exciting. People make fusses about ridiculous things all the time. It's not a testament to his credibility.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: BoldAsLove]
#18829469 - 09/11/13 07:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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And do what with it? At some point a human has to read it and, if actionable, a judge has to allow it. I've said this over and over again. You need to conduct your life as if you are under subpoena and constant surveillance.
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18829492 - 09/11/13 07:29 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
And do what with it? At some point a human has to read it and, if actionable, a judge has to allow it.
I don't know what they plan to do with it. It just seemed that you were arguing they didn't have the ability to handle the data when you said "What do you suppose anybody could do with the entire trove of private data of everybody? The sheer volume would bury them." I think they definitely have the ability to pick out interesting bits of information. What they do with it is anyone's guess.
Quote:
I've said this over and over again. You need to conduct your life as if you are under subpoena and constant surveillance.
Where's the fun in that?
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: BoldAsLove]
#18829580 - 09/11/13 07:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Fun? Hell it's big fun fucking with them. I fuck with the IRS all the time and they're much nastier than anybody else
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Veil of Maya
Stranger

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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18838595 - 09/13/13 08:23 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: They have computer programs to read the data old man, this is obviously beyond your generations technological unferstanding. Search bots can sift through the data and compile things of interest. A user could also input search parameters to look up particular things.
So? At some point a human has to read the shit.
I think zappis is just too ignorant to understand the fact that our future generations will be enslaved in a nation without a constitution. You clearly have no idea how serious this or you just want to stir something up because you are blinded by what you've been told.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Veil of Maya]
#18838866 - 09/13/13 09:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I have lived my entire life as if I was on camera. They have always had the ability to get a court order to expose everything you write. They do not give a fuck what you have to say otherwise. Your best defense is that you are boring.
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Shins
Fun guy



Registered: 09/15/04
Posts: 16,337
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18839419 - 09/13/13 11:40 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think zappa panders to the elite online cuz he's scared of them.
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viktor
psychotechnician



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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Shins]
#18839569 - 09/14/13 12:14 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: I think zappa panders to the elite online cuz he's scared of them.
It's a kind of Stockholm Syndrome. Abuse someone badly enough and they will come to love the abuser and accept abuse as a natural part of life.
He appears to be a terrified individual to me. Obedient, cowed, broken. Licking the boots that have stomped his spirit down.
Once you realise that people are abusive because they're scared they become much less repulsive. I think he just needs a hug, myself.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: viktor]
#18839884 - 09/14/13 02:31 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
Shins said: I think zappa panders to the elite online cuz he's scared of them.
It's a kind of Stockholm Syndrome. Abuse someone badly enough and they will come to love the abuser and accept abuse as a natural part of life.
He appears to be a terrified individual to me. Obedient, cowed, broken. Licking the boots that have stomped his spirit down.
Once you realise that people are abusive because they're scared they become much less repulsive. I think he just needs a hug, myself.
For someone who lives in N. Zealand what on earth do you know how the American government is and how things are done here, sure I think the spying is despicable, but it is legal, instead people bitch and cry instead of trying to effect change, and also, quit throwing out strawman's to zappa, you don't know him or his life.
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viktor
psychotechnician



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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: The_Red_Crayon]
#18840138 - 09/14/13 05:37 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not strawmen but psychoanalysis.
I've worked with abuse victims in clinical settings. They all talk like him - life is hard, must dominate and control, compassion is for the weak blah blah blah.
It's shit and I'm saying it openly. It's the mark of a man beaten into his shell. I have nothing but pity.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: viktor] 1
#18840937 - 09/14/13 12:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've got a great idea guys, let's not discuss the content of this thread at all, let's all just bash (or psychoanalyze if thats what you want to call it) zappa
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: BoldAsLove] 2
#18841172 - 09/14/13 01:48 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Psychoanalyze me? They don't have the insight or intelligence to begin to understand me much less interpret me.
You have to have suffered some kind of abuse in order to have Stockholm syndrome. I'm living large. Here's the deal. I always assumed I was being watched. You all should, too. Anything you put in writing can be subpoenaed and it only takes on jackass judge to grant a search warrant. Assume all judges are jackasses. It has often been said that a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich. Act accordingly.
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DeadHearts

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#18842613 - 09/14/13 09:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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[/
Edited by DeadHearts (09/14/13 09:45 PM)
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Veil of Maya
Stranger

Registered: 05/28/13
Posts: 93
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: DeadHearts]
#18844927 - 09/15/13 03:02 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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guys were getting off topic, yeah we know zappis can't think for himself but the fact of the matter is that this is what's happening right now. Is the word change a fairy tale in this situation?
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Veil of Maya]
#18844997 - 09/15/13 03:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Word change a fairy tale. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz
The game is rigged. The people have lost. "If you want a vision of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - forever." -George Orwell
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,375
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 11 hours, 35 minutes
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
#18845064 - 09/15/13 03:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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What does it matter what information is released or how much information you have? Bradley Manning released thousands of documents, including a video tape of helicopter pilots murdering people in a van just for pulling by to inspect a completely hopelessly dying injured man crawling on the ground
Any charges filed? No. Did he get over 30 years in a military prison? Yes.
Who is accountable? Obama? Anyone? No. It matters not what information is released. Once it's released, it does no good for you other then education. That's about it
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I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: imachavel]
#18845243 - 09/15/13 04:25 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Are you saying the Snowden leaks are useless? Do you think we would be better off as a nation if we were left in the dark? I don't.
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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viktor
psychotechnician



Registered: 11/03/10
Posts: 4,293
Loc: New Zealand
Last seen: 1 year, 9 months
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18845497 - 09/15/13 05:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: You have to have suffered some kind of abuse in order to have Stockholm syndrome.
True - but what's more, you have to deny that it was abuse. Aren't you a circumcision victim?
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: imachavel]
#18845705 - 09/15/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
imachavel said: What does it matter what information is released or how much information you have? Bradley Manning released thousands of documents, including a video tape of helicopter pilots murdering people in a van just for pulling by to inspect a completely hopelessly dying injured man crawling on the ground
Any charges filed? No. Did he get over 30 years in a military prison? Yes.
Who is accountable? Obama? Anyone? No. It matters not what information is released. Once it's released, it does no good for you other then education. That's about it 
Why do you keep lying about the video?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: viktor]
#18845707 - 09/15/13 06:22 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
viktor said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: You have to have suffered some kind of abuse in order to have Stockholm syndrome.
True - but what's more, you have to deny that it was abuse. Aren't you a circumcision victim?

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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 30 days
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18853044 - 09/17/13 10:32 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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this thread was also funny.
jesus. people can have their heads up their ass sometimes. i'm not great with talking politics, or caring about it, actually... but people's idea of "psychoanalyzes" in this thread, is just pure gold, for psychoanalyzes.
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Therian
Stranger

Registered: 03/04/09
Posts: 684
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: akira_akuma]
#18857619 - 09/18/13 11:44 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
You need to conduct your life as if you are under subpoena and constant surveillance.
FUCK.....THAT....SHIT!! And you characterize this behavior as living in a "free society" I didn't fight for that shit. The founders stated that our fourth amendment rights "were God given".
Quote:
You need to conduct your life as if you are under subpoena and constant surveillance.
Not a chance.
"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." -Jefferson
Nothing will ever change until we vote these assholes out of office, or until reporters for the times get spied on, or some senators niece gets her vag groped by a TSA agent, or your congressman's wife has a cop put their fingers in her snatch and asshole for a driving offense, or some supreme court justice has his internet searches spied on and revealed,or they have the cops bust down their door, throw in a few flash bangs, shoot their dog, have guns drawn on their children, for the crime of having an electric bill that is too high for their standards, which of course is "legitimate" probable cause for some lying, ex lawyer turned judge douche to issue a warrant for.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Therian]
#18858148 - 09/18/13 01:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't know why this is such a big deal. Anything you write can be subpoenaed. All your records can be. Pretty much anything at all. It has always been true. If they have reason to believe that you are committing a crime they can go to a judge with their evidence and get a subpoena. It is right there in the Constitution.
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18858677 - 09/18/13 03:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I don't know why this is such a big deal. Anything you write can be subpoenaed. All your records can be. Pretty much anything at all. It has always been true. If they have reason to believe that you are committing a crime they can go to a judge with their evidence and get a subpoena. It is right there in the Constitution.
Was there evidence presented to a judge a subpoena/warrant issued in the situation being discussed, or in the situation of the snowden revelations. I honestly don't know, but if not it would seem you're comparing apples with oranges
--------------------
  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Simplicitry]
#18858916 - 09/18/13 04:08 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Actually you're comparing apples to oranges. I was making a general observation about how you should live your life. What the NSA is doing is just datamining what phone number calls another. Unless they get a warrant. Except for other things that Snowden revealed, which is that we spy (horrors!) on other countries. Shoot him on sight. He is a spy and a traitor.
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18858956 - 09/18/13 04:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I don't have a problem with us spying (on foreigners, and other governments that is). I don't have any love for snowden, he made his choices and now he'll live with outcome. But just to clarify, you do have a problem with the government collecting information without showing evidence to a judge to obtain a subpoena/warrant don't you? (on individuals protected by our constitution that is)
Edited by Simplicitry (09/18/13 04:18 PM)
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Simplicitry
Just another mushroom lover



Registered: 05/23/09
Posts: 1,070
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Simplicitry]
#18859054 - 09/18/13 04:32 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd also like to say that unlike other subjects I discuss here I honestly haven't educated myself sufficiently on Snowden(I don't know if he sold information to the Chinese/Russians. Something I would frown upon) but if after adequately educating myself on the situation I find that the government is improperly collecting data on Constitutionally protected people or undermining our internet privacy then I'll be happy it's been revealed to me regardless of my opinions of him on other levels
--------------------
  "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." I think we should cut all the social parasites from their welfare checks. Then they will either find a means to support themselves or starve to death, either of wich is good for the economy and society. I have a dream that one day this nation will rise up and live out the true meaning of its creed: "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal." "Islam in a man is worse then rabies in a dog"
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 7 hours, 58 minutes
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: BoldAsLove]
#18862956 - 09/19/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: LOL. What do you suppose anybody could do with the entire trove of private data of everybody? The sheer volume would bury them.
It would be easy to search through this large amount of data to find confidential insider information on companies that would affect the stock price. Someone in Israel could get rich doing insider trading or selling industrial secrets.
Quote:
zappaisgod said: So? At some point a human has to read the shit.
Correct. Search algotithms can turn terrabytes of emails into just a few pages of text that is likely to contain what the interesting bits.
The way it works is you let it run overnight, sifting through the data for industrial secrets, etc., and then in the morning you spend 15 minutes reading the top results.
You would tell the search algorithm to flag documents that are marked confidential, secret, etc, and contain keywords that make it likely that the industry you are spying on is the one referenced in the document.
Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said:
Snowden has overstated his power and abilities at the NSA before, and I think he was lying when he said that.
http://news.yahoo.com/5-ways-nsa-leaker-edward-snowdens-story-isnt-115500971.html
None of the accusations in that story hold up. When he overstated his salary he was talking about how much he made at another job, not at the NSA. He never said the NSA paid him the higher number. As a sysadmin, he would have access to do anything that anyone else could do, since he controls the computers. If the NSA could listen to phone calls, so could he. Regarding his lack of credentials, I was hired to do sysadmin work by the government and never went to college. They never asked me if I graduated HS either. When they asked why I never went to college, I said that I started IT Security consulting directly out of high school, and that made me look even better than going to school would have. And who cares when he left his home...
Quote:
BoldAsLove said: What do you think of "3. Snowden didn't have the 'authority' to wiretap anybody" or "4.He might not have had the ability to do so, either?"
Certainly he was not supposed to have the ability to wiretap people. However there are so many ways around that. Since he has access to the facility, he could just sit at someone elses desk and use their authority to tap people. Or he could use a keystroke logger to get the passwords needed to tap people. As a network admin there are so many tricks he could have used, and there is no way to stop all of them. Once someone has physical access to a machine, the security is pretty much sunk, and at the end of the day you have to trust _someone_ because the analysis are spies, not computer admins.
I have heard that the NSA fixed this problem by firing all its sysadmins. So now there is no one updating the systems, installing security patches or guarding the data. Just an air gap, and all it takes is one unintentional leak, one cable plugged into the wrong port or a one line misconfiguation in a router, and a classified system becomes available over the internet.
It is simply not possible to make a system that is not hackable. That is one of the reasons the NSA should not be trusted with so much important data.
At IBM they once had a system they would show to customers, telling them that it was the worlds most secure computer. It had no network connection, and therefore could not be hacked. One day, someone broke in and stole it.
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 7 hours, 58 minutes
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18862981 - 09/19/13 01:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: Actually you're comparing apples to oranges. I was making a general observation about how you should live your life. What the NSA is doing is just datamining what phone number calls another. Unless they get a warrant.
I guess you missed the part where they were caught weakening the encrpytion algorithms used on the internet? These are the same algorithms that banks use. (yes, when you do that online bank transfer, the only thing protecting your money is SSL. When you use a ATM, the only thing protecting your account is DES.) Not cool to go around intentionally weaking them. They also occasionally inserted backdoors and naively thought that they were the only ones who would ever find them. Of course critical bits of code (like SSL) get audited by every government on earth, and many people would have found the backdoors.
http://www.propublica.org/article/the-nsas-secret-campaign-to-crack-undermine-internet-encryption
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#18863448 - 09/19/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Certainly he was not supposed to have the ability to wiretap people. However there are so many ways around that. Since he has access to the facility, he could just sit at someone elses desk and use their authority to tap people. Or he could use a keystroke logger to get the passwords needed to tap people. As a network admin there are so many tricks he could have used, and there is no way to stop all of them. Once someone has physical access to a machine, the security is pretty much sunk, and at the end of the day you have to trust _someone_ because the analysis are spies, not computer admins.
No objections here. My only point was that Snowden has lied about his position, power, and authority in the past.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: BoldAsLove]
#18863610 - 09/19/13 03:59 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Actually you're comparing apples to oranges. I was making a general observation about how you should live your life. What the NSA is doing is just datamining what phone number calls another. Unless they get a warrant.
I guess you missed the part where they were caught weakening the encrpytion algorithms used on the internet? These are the same algorithms that banks use. (yes, when you do that online bank transfer, the only thing protecting your money is SSL. When you use a ATM, the only thing protecting your account is DES.) Not cool to go around intentionally weaking them. They also occasionally inserted backdoors and naively thought that they were the only ones who would ever find them. Of course critical bits of code (like SSL) get audited by every government on earth, and many people would have found the backdoors.
http://www.propublica.org/article/the-nsas-secret-campaign-to-crack-undermine-internet-encryption
Do you think Snowden is a trustworthy source of information Alan? Do you believe him?
Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
Certainly he was not supposed to have the ability to wiretap people. However there are so many ways around that. Since he has access to the facility, he could just sit at someone elses desk and use their authority to tap people. Or he could use a keystroke logger to get the passwords needed to tap people. As a network admin there are so many tricks he could have used, and there is no way to stop all of them. Once someone has physical access to a machine, the security is pretty much sunk, and at the end of the day you have to trust _someone_ because the analysis are spies, not computer admins.
No objections here. My only point was that Snowden has lied about his position, power, and authority in the past.
Sorry but to me this sounds like a classic Ad hominem attack. What makes him so untrustworthy?
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
#18863659 - 09/19/13 04:15 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
Certainly he was not supposed to have the ability to wiretap people. However there are so many ways around that. Since he has access to the facility, he could just sit at someone elses desk and use their authority to tap people. Or he could use a keystroke logger to get the passwords needed to tap people. As a network admin there are so many tricks he could have used, and there is no way to stop all of them. Once someone has physical access to a machine, the security is pretty much sunk, and at the end of the day you have to trust _someone_ because the analysis are spies, not computer admins.
No objections here. My only point was that Snowden has lied about his position, power, and authority in the past.
Sorry but to me this sounds like a classic Ad hominem attack. What makes him so untrustworthy?
How is that in anyway ad hominem?? Snowden has lied many times.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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maynardjameskeenan
The white stipes



Registered: 11/11/10
Posts: 16,391
Loc: 'Merica
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: BoldAsLove]
#18863866 - 09/19/13 04:53 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said:
Quote:
Certainly he was not supposed to have the ability to wiretap people. However there are so many ways around that. Since he has access to the facility, he could just sit at someone elses desk and use their authority to tap people. Or he could use a keystroke logger to get the passwords needed to tap people. As a network admin there are so many tricks he could have used, and there is no way to stop all of them. Once someone has physical access to a machine, the security is pretty much sunk, and at the end of the day you have to trust _someone_ because the analysis are spies, not computer admins.
No objections here. My only point was that Snowden has lied about his position, power, and authority in the past.
Sorry but to me this sounds like a classic Ad hominem attack. What makes him so untrustworthy?
How is that in anyway ad hominem?? Snowden has lied many times.
Please elaborate? It seem to me that there is a concerted effort to discredit the guy. If he was really a liar do you think anyone would pay attention to anything he says?
-------------------- May you be filled with loving kindness. May you be well. May you be peaceful and at ease. May you be happy. AMU Q&A
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
#18866845 - 09/20/13 09:30 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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First of all, to be ad hominem as you are claiming, I would have to blatantly attack the person I am debating with on grounds that are not relevant with the topic matter. I am not debating with Snowden, nor am I directly attacking him. Had I said something along the lines of "Snowden's a fat, ugly drunk. What does he know about anything?" then that would be ad hominem.
On the other hand, what I did, questioning someone's ethos is a valid method of argument. I provided evidence, from the same situation basically, where he has lied about similar matters. This casts doubt on similar claims that he makes.
People pay attention almost exclusively to liars, eg. politicians. People are paying attention to him because they find the practices, and the documents, he released interesting. They don't care at all about his credibility, because his credibility does not affect the validity of the documents he released, just the validity of his statements.
Now, I at no point got involved in the debate of what Snowden did, or even what I think of the guy. You can scroll back through my posts in this thread and see where this discussion originated. It was in response to this quote of Snowden's that you posted:
Quote:
“I also had the capability without any warrant to search for, seize, and read your communications. Anyone’s communications at any time. That is the power to change people’s fates.”
Maybe he had that power, maybe he didn't. Me providing examples where he has inflated his power and position before is not an example of ad hominem.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 30 days
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: BoldAsLove]
#18866921 - 09/20/13 09:50 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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people should always read the origins of an argument they wish to partake in. most people, however, don't.
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luvdemshrooms
Two inch dick..but it spins!?


Registered: 11/29/01
Posts: 34,247
Loc: Lost In Space
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: akira_akuma] 2
#18867015 - 09/20/13 10:20 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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What? People should know what the fuck they are talking about before they talk about it?
Good one.
-------------------- You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 30 days
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: luvdemshrooms]
#18867144 - 09/20/13 10:59 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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i know! weird, eh? crazy fucking flippant humans and their knownot disregard for logic.
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imachavel
I loved and lost but I loved-ftw



Registered: 06/06/07
Posts: 31,375
Loc: You get banned for saying that
Last seen: 11 hours, 35 minutes
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel *DELETED* [Re: akira_akuma]
#18867292 - 09/20/13 11:35 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by imachavelReason for deletion: fukit
--------------------
I did not say to edit my signature soulidarity! Now forever I will never remember what I said about understanding the secrets of the universe by paying attention to subtleties!
I'm never giving you the password again. Jerk
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BoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: imachavel]
#18867339 - 09/20/13 11:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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How is this relevant to Snowden and the NSA?
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Simplicitry]
#18868824 - 09/20/13 05:46 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Simplicitry said: I don't have a problem with us spying (on foreigners, and other governments that is). I don't have any love for snowden, he made his choices and now he'll live with outcome. But just to clarify, you do have a problem with the government collecting information without showing evidence to a judge to obtain a subpoena/warrant don't you? (on individuals protected by our constitution that is)
Judges are part of the government. I have no problem with the NSA data-mining. Reading the contents is another issue.
--------------------
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Alan Rockefeller
Mycologist

Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
Last seen: 7 hours, 58 minutes
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: BoldAsLove]
#18871183 - 09/21/13 08:25 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Snowden has lied many times.
What did he lie about?
I have not seen any statements from that I would consider lies.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#18871644 - 09/21/13 11:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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He certainly lied when he took an oath not to reveal secrets.
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BoldAsLove
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#18872977 - 09/21/13 04:44 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
Snowden has lied many times.
What did he lie about?
I have not seen any statements from that I would consider lies.
http://news.yahoo.com/5-ways-nsa-leaker-edward-snowdens-story-isnt-115500971.html
Here's some of them. You can argue whether or not the lies are significant or not, but they are lies.
Also, here is a quote from the Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. Take it for what you will.
Quote:
"He was lying,” said Chairman Mike Rogers, Breitbart reported. “He clearly has over-inflated his position, he has over-inflated his access and he’s even over-inflated what the actual technology of the programs would allow one to do. It’s impossible for him to do what he was saying he could do.”
Source
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: BoldAsLove]
#18873687 - 09/21/13 08:20 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I read that article but disagree with the conclusion that Snowden was lying about any of the 5 things. My rebuttal is a few posts above.
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zappaisgod
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#18875224 - 09/22/13 09:48 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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He certainly and irrefutably lied when he took the position.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18876100 - 09/22/13 02:14 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: He certainly and irrefutably lied when he took the position.
As any patriotic American should, when they see a gross misuse of tax dollars. The nsa was, and perhaps still is working against the best interests of the American people.
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Shins
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#18876187 - 09/22/13 02:31 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The NSA lied when they took an oath to protect the constitution.
they also lied when they repeatedly denied any of this was happening prior to snowden's revelations.
hell its the NSAs JOB to lie nevermind snowden.
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maynardjameskeenan
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Shins]
#18876218 - 09/22/13 02:37 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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"If you see something say something"... Unless it involves the illegal activity of powerful people.
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zappaisgod
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#18876354 - 09/22/13 03:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: He certainly and irrefutably lied when he took the position.
As any patriotic American should, when they see a gross misuse of tax dollars. The nsa was, and perhaps still is working against the best interests of the American people.
That is not for either you or him to decide and I disagree with it completely.
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zappaisgod
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Shins]
#18876361 - 09/22/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shins said: The NSA lied when they took an oath to protect the constitution.
they also lied when they repeatedly denied any of this was happening prior to snowden's revelations.
hell its the NSAs JOB to lie nevermind snowden.
It is not for you to know what they are doing. They are a spy agency. If you know what they are doing then everybody knows what they are doing which kind of makes them utterly useless, doesn't it? Or are you one of the dingbats who think that there should be no state secrets? I don't recall an organization taking an oath. How does that work, anyway? Further they have been found to be Constitutionally allowed in spite of the bleatings of the law ignorant rabble.
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zappaisgod
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan]
#18876364 - 09/22/13 03:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said: "If you see something say something"... Unless it involves the illegal activity of powerful people.
What illegal activity?
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maynardjameskeenan
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18876450 - 09/22/13 03:35 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: The NSA lied when they took an oath to protect the constitution.
they also lied when they repeatedly denied any of this was happening prior to snowden's revelations.
hell its the NSAs JOB to lie nevermind snowden.
It is not for you to know what they are doing. They are a spy agency. If you know what they are doing then everybody knows what they are doing which kind of makes them utterly useless, doesn't it? Or are you one of the dingbats who think that there should be no state secrets? I don't recall an organization taking an oath. How does that work, anyway? Further they have been found to be Constitutionally allowed in spite of the bleatings of the law ignorant rabble.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/08/22/nsas-a22.html
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said: "If you see something say something"... Unless it involves the illegal activity of powerful people.
What illegal activity?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/opinion/the-criminal-nsa.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-08-15/world/41431831_1_washington-post-national-security-agency-documents
http://www.salon.com/2013/07/01/this_man_is_still_lying_to_america/Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: He certainly and irrefutably lied when he took the position.
As any patriotic American should, when they see a gross misuse of tax dollars. The nsa was, and perhaps still is working against the best interests of the American people.
That is not for either you or him to decide and I disagree with it completely.
But it's right for you to decide..? You sound like a NSA shill by saying stuff like this, why do you protect these people?
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zappaisgod
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: maynardjameskeenan] 1
#18876619 - 09/22/13 04:12 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Shins said: The NSA lied when they took an oath to protect the constitution.
they also lied when they repeatedly denied any of this was happening prior to snowden's revelations.
hell its the NSAs JOB to lie nevermind snowden.
It is not for you to know what they are doing. They are a spy agency. If you know what they are doing then everybody knows what they are doing which kind of makes them utterly useless, doesn't it? Or are you one of the dingbats who think that there should be no state secrets? I don't recall an organization taking an oath. How does that work, anyway? Further they have been found to be Constitutionally allowed in spite of the bleatings of the law ignorant rabble.
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/08/22/nsas-a22.html
Quote:
In one of the documents, a heavily blacked-out 86-page 2011 secret court opinion released Wednesday that declared NSA activities to be unconstitutional, US District Judge John Bates wrote that on three occasions within a three-year period, the state “disclosed a substantial misrepresentation regarding the scope of a major collection program.”
Spare me the World socialist web siteQuote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
maynardjameskeenan said: "If you see something say something"... Unless it involves the illegal activity of powerful people.
What illegal activity?
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/28/opinion/the-criminal-nsa.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Op ed, not news. Federal judges have decide that their opinion is falseQuote:
http://articles.washingtonpost.com/2013-08-15/world/41431831_1_washington-post-national-security-agency-documents
I have no expectation that they will be perfect. Can you poit to one single prosecution that has resulted from this?Quote:
http://www.salon.com/2013/07/01/this_man_is_still_lying_to_america/
The only people James Clapper needs to tell the truth to is the President, the intelligence committees and the FISA Court. They're fucking spies. Are you so daft that you think there should be no state secrets at all? He shouldn't even be asked this shit in open session.Quote:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: He certainly and irrefutably lied when he took the position.
As any patriotic American should, when they see a gross misuse of tax dollars. The nsa was, and perhaps still is working against the best interests of the American people.
That is not for either you or him to decide and I disagree with it completely.
But it's right for you to decide..? You sound like a NSA shill by saying stuff like this, why do you protect these people?
I didn't make any decision to keep things secret. The duly elected representatives of the people of the United States of America did. Who the fuck do you think you are to decide what should or should not be secret. Who elected you? Who elected Snowden? Or are you one of those drooling mouthbreathers who thinks there should be no secrets at all.
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The_Red_Crayon
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Alan Rockefeller] 1
#18878112 - 09/22/13 09:42 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well, obviously we cant have everyone exposing state secrets because of their perceived moral convictions. We do need a level of security, my problem is not with Snowden, its the fact that their is hundreds of thousands of people just like Snowden who may do nasty things with their info, also the responsibility is through the contractor, in this case Booz Allen, who were acquired by The Carlysle group, another shadowy private equity firm with their fingers in all sorts of no-bid government contracts.
Snowden, what ever you think of him, I think its ironic that he drops bombs on Obama over surveillance and all these secrets, yet he seeks asylum in a country thats a egregious violator of human rights
examples like the notorious Anti-Gay laws that's are being passed, a country that has fought 3 wars in Chechnya, one in Dagestan, invaded S. Ossetia, and backs a tyrant in Chechnya named Ramzan Kadyrov Who is a major kleptocratic asshole who sports a fleet of Lamborghini's
Quote:
Kadyrov is a noted collector of sports cars. He owns a Lamborghini Reventón, one of only 20 made.[60][61] He is also known for his extensive collection of Chechen daggers.[62][63] On 5 October 2011, he celebrated his 35th birthday in a lavish fashion in the presence of several Hollywood stars, including the actor Jean-Claude Van Damme and the actress Hilary Swank as well as British violinist Vanessa-Mae, singer Seal and many others.[64] When asked where the money for the live-televised celebration were coming from, he reportedly laughed and said "Allah gives it to us", before adding: "I don't know, it comes from somewhere".[65]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzan_Kadyrov This guy is bad news. Why flee to a country who is more of a police state then the USA, like Russia gives a shit about Snowden, he's just a pawn to them, and if giving his ass up to the US would benefit them, they would do it, but right now they are thumbing their nose at us, and Snowden is a clear indication of that, a Pawn of Putin. huh that's got a ring to it.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: zappaisgod]
#18879513 - 09/23/13 07:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
hell its the NSAs JOB to lie nevermind snowden.
The only people James Clapper needs to tell the truth to is the President, the intelligence committees and the FISA Court. They're fucking spies. Are you so daft that you think there should be no state secrets at all?crets at all.
Since when is it the nsa's job to lie? If I read the law that created the nsa, will it say that?
What law says that they are allowed to lie to congress? Does the law that makes it illegal to lie to congress have an exception for the nsa? Clapper should have refused to answer the question if he wanted to stay on the right side of the law.
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zappaisgod
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#18880501 - 09/23/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
hell its the NSAs JOB to lie nevermind snowden.
The only people James Clapper needs to tell the truth to is the President, the intelligence committees and the FISA Court. They're fucking spies. Are you so daft that you think there should be no state secrets at all?crets at all.
Since when is it the nsa's job to lie? If I read the law that created the nsa, will it say that?
Sometimes you have to lie to protect state secretsQuote:
What law says that they are allowed to lie to congress? Does the law that makes it illegal to lie to congress have an exception for the nsa? Clapper should have refused to answer the question if he wanted to stay on the right side of the law.
There are security exceptions to what is required in open session. He never should have been asked those questions by the grandstanding irresponsible idiots. He would be derelict in his duty if he didn't lie in open session. The only place for Clapper to be deposed like that is before the Intelligence committees. In secret.
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BoldAsLove
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#18895208 - 09/26/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said: I read that article but disagree with the conclusion that Snowden was lying about any of the 5 things. My rebuttal is a few posts above.
Sorry, I missed your rebuttal earlier. I'll respond to it now.
Quote:
None of the accusations in that story hold up.
I disagree, I think they are accurate.
Quote:
When he overstated his salary he was talking about how much he made at another job, not at the NSA. He never said the NSA paid him the higher number.
And the article didn't claim he did. It is actually very clear that Snowden was lying about the salary he was receiving from the firm that was employing him, Booz Allen Hamilton. They have issued a statement confirming that he has been fired and that his salary was not $200,000. And regardless, it seems that you agree that he lied about that anyways.
Quote:
As a sysadmin, he would have access to do anything that anyone else could do, since he controls the computers. If the NSA could listen to phone calls, so could he.
As for this, it hasn't been confirmed to be a lie, but it seems that it very well could have been, and in my opinion, probably is. In the article I quoted they discuss how there are checks and limits, both technical and human, that would have to be circumvented. And even though some analysts give him the benefit of the doubt, one said:
"On some technical matters, Snowden's proficiency can't be questioned. But some of his assertions about the intelligence community are difficult to square with reality."
Quote:
Regarding his lack of credentials, I was hired to do sysadmin work by the government and never went to college. They never asked me if I graduated HS either. When they asked why I never went to college, I said that I started IT Security consulting directly out of high school, and that made me look even better than going to school would have.
From a former CIA official:
"Snowden's claim to have been placed under diplomatic cover for a position in Switzerland after an apparently brief stint at the CIA as a systems administrator also raised suspicion. "I just have never heard of anyone being hired with so little academic credentials," the former CIA official said. The agency does employ technical specialists in overseas stations, the former official said, "but their breadth of experience is huge, and they tend not to start out as systems administrators.""
So again, not confirmed to be a lie, but certainly fishy.
Quote:
And who cares when he left his home...
I certainly give zero shits. But this one would appear to be a confirmed lie. Again, my whole point has been that Snowden has lied in the past.
And finally, you seem to have missed one point in your rebuttal. I didn't see where you discussed anything to do with his claim that "I, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone: From you or your accountant, to a federal judge, to even the president if I had a personal email."
Michael Hayden called this "absolutely outrageous." I suppose it could be argued that he may have had the ability to do that (though I find it highly unlikely for the reasons stated in the article), but he certainly didn't have the authority to do so.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
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Alan Rockefeller
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: BoldAsLove]
#18897115 - 09/27/13 01:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
BoldAsLove said: I suppose it could be argued that he may have had the ability to do that (though I find it highly unlikely for the reasons stated in the article), but he certainly didn't have the authority to do so.
He did not have the authority to do it, but due to his physical and electronic proximity, there is no way to stop insiders from getting access to everything.
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BoldAsLove
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
#18898388 - 09/27/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:
BoldAsLove said: I suppose it could be argued that he may have had the ability to do that (though I find it highly unlikely for the reasons stated in the article), but he certainly didn't have the authority to do so.
He did not have the authority to do it, but due to his physical and electronic proximity, there is no way to stop insiders from getting access to everything.
Right, but he claimed that he had the authority to do it. That is certainly a lie.
And there are many systems in place to prevent insiders from gaining access to things they shouldn't have access to. Of course there are ways around the system, but it isn't an easy thing to do, especially without getting caught.
-------------------- DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor and Ferdinand , the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.
Edited by BoldAsLove (09/27/13 12:12 PM)
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