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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #18880501 - 09/23/13 12:56 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

zappaisgod said:

hell its the NSAs JOB to lie nevermind snowden.

The only people James Clapper needs to tell the truth to is the President, the intelligence committees and the FISA Court.  They're fucking spies.  Are you so daft that you think there should be no state secrets at all?crets at all.




Since when is it the nsa's job to lie?    If I read the law that created the nsa, will it say that?




Sometimes you have to lie to protect state secrets
Quote:



What law says that they are allowed to lie to congress?    Does the law that makes it illegal to lie to congress have an exception for the nsa?  Clapper should have refused to answer the question if he wanted to stay on the right side of the law.




There are security exceptions to what is required in open session.  He never should have been asked those questions by the grandstanding irresponsible idiots.  He would be derelict in his duty if he didn't lie in open session.  The only place for Clapper to be deposed like that is before the Intelligence committees.  In secret.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #18895208 - 09/26/13 06:09 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
I read that article but disagree with the conclusion that Snowden was lying about any of the 5 things.    My rebuttal is a few posts above.





Sorry, I missed your rebuttal earlier. I'll respond to it now.

Quote:

None of the accusations in that story hold up.




I disagree, I think they are accurate.

Quote:

When he overstated his salary he was talking about how much he made at another job, not at the NSA.  He never said the NSA paid him the higher number.




And the article didn't claim he did. It is actually very clear that Snowden was lying about the  salary he was receiving from the firm  that was employing him, Booz Allen Hamilton. They have issued a statement confirming that he has been fired and that his salary was not $200,000. And regardless, it seems that you agree that he lied about that anyways.

Quote:

As a sysadmin, he would have access to do anything that anyone else could do, since he controls the computers.  If the NSA could listen to phone calls, so could he.




As for this, it hasn't been confirmed to be a lie, but it seems that it very well could have been, and in my opinion, probably is. In the article I quoted they discuss how there are checks and limits, both technical and human, that would have to be circumvented. And even though some analysts give him the benefit of the doubt, one said:

"On some technical matters, Snowden's proficiency can't be questioned. But some of his assertions about the intelligence community are difficult to square with reality."

Quote:

Regarding his lack of credentials, I was hired to do sysadmin work by the government and never went to college.  They never asked me if I graduated HS either.  When they asked why I never went to college, I said that I started IT Security consulting directly out of high school, and that made me look even better than going to school would have.




From a former CIA official:

"Snowden's claim to have been placed under diplomatic cover for a position in Switzerland after an apparently brief stint at the CIA as a systems administrator also raised suspicion. "I just have never heard of anyone being hired with so little academic credentials," the former CIA official said. The agency does employ technical specialists in overseas stations, the former official said, "but their breadth of experience is huge, and they tend not to start out as systems administrators.""

So again, not confirmed to be a lie, but certainly fishy.

Quote:

And who cares when he left his home...




I certainly give zero shits. But this one would appear to be a confirmed lie. Again, my whole point has been that Snowden has lied in the past.

And finally, you seem to have missed one point in your rebuttal. I didn't see where you discussed anything to do with his claim that "I, sitting at my desk, certainly had the authorities to wiretap anyone: From you or your accountant, to a federal judge, to even the president if I had a personal email."

Michael Hayden called this "absolutely outrageous." I suppose it could be argued that he may have had the ability to do that (though I find it highly unlikely for the reasons stated in the article), but he certainly didn't have the authority to do so.


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DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


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OfflineAlan RockefellerM
Mycologist
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Registered: 03/10/07
Posts: 48,276
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Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: BoldAsLove]
    #18897115 - 09/27/13 01:39 AM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
I suppose it could be argued that he may have had the ability to do that (though I find it highly unlikely for the reasons stated in the article), but he certainly didn't have the authority to do so.






He did not have the authority to do it, but due to his physical and electronic proximity, there is no way to stop insiders from getting access to everything.


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InvisibleBoldAsLove
Pokemon Master


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 2,549
Loc: Kanto Region
Re: NSA shares raw intelligence including Americans' data with Israel [Re: Alan Rockefeller]
    #18898388 - 09/27/13 12:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Alan Rockefeller said:
Quote:

BoldAsLove said:
I suppose it could be argued that he may have had the ability to do that (though I find it highly unlikely for the reasons stated in the article), but he certainly didn't have the authority to do so.






He did not have the authority to do it, but due to his physical and electronic proximity, there is no way to stop insiders from getting access to everything.




Right, but he claimed that he had the authority to do it. That is certainly a lie.

And there are many systems in place to prevent insiders from gaining access to things they shouldn't have access to. Of course there are ways around the system, but it isn't an easy thing to do, especially without getting caught.


--------------------
DISCLAIMER: None of the ideas expressed above are actually mine. They are told to me by Luthor :alientransform: and Ferdinand :cigar:, the five inch tall space aliens who live under my desk. In return for these ideas, I have given them permission to eat any dust bunnies they may find under there.


Edited by BoldAsLove (09/27/13 12:12 PM)


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