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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: psi]
#19239830 - 12/07/13 08:12 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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HHHCK
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psi
TOAST N' JAM


Registered: 09/05/99
Posts: 31,456
Loc: 613
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: akira_akuma]
#19239897 - 12/07/13 08:43 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yeah like hocking a loogie or something.
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: psi]
#19239923 - 12/07/13 08:56 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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sounds pretty similar, although, don't say that to anyone Jewish, they'll just tell you you're damn wrong about it's annunciation.
damn old languages.
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Beanhead
IS IRONIC PARADOX


Registered: 10/11/08
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: psi]
#19241623 - 12/07/13 04:05 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
psi said: It's from a language with a different alphabet, so there is no standard way to spell it in our alphabet. I think the "Ch" spelling is supposed to indicate that it should be a throatier sound than the way we normally pronounce "H" in English.
ghhhhhggg like a cat.
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mapleleafmarijuana
Archaeotek Magos



Registered: 03/08/12
Posts: 9,063
Loc: Alberta, Canada
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: Beanhead]
#19242039 - 12/07/13 06:13 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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like Genghis Khan is really CHanghis Khan. who with his army built piles of severed skulls so big,the tops of the piles were snowcapped year round as folklore claims.
-------------------- Vinegar Tom stay black cocksucker, thats the most important thing - joey coco diaz Flesh is Weak. All Hail the Machine God!
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SARAtonin
Violent Dreams


Registered: 09/28/11
Posts: 15,907
Loc: Deutschland
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Day 38:
China falls behind:
It might come to a surprise to many of us living in the West, but the European powers were not always the dominate cultures through history. A prime example of this is the dark ages in which European society regressed to a pre-Greek level of squalor. Meanwhile societies across the Middle East were experiencing leveling of wealth, technology, and knowledge surpassing the Romans.
Even further to the east is China, a proud nation that for the longest time had supported isolationist policies for one simple reason... they did EVERYTHING better. They would participate in some trade, mostly in the silk road where they would trade renewable resources such as silk and tea with Europe for nonrenewable resources such as gold and gems. Another thing that Europeans would trade for with China was highly breakable porcelain, so much so that we just eventually started just calling porcelain China. But one thing they would always gather threw their contact with the outside was that they were doing things better.

This remained the statuesque until the 17th century and a little thing called the Industrial Revolution took place. Due to the great increase in technologies and production capabilities brought about by the Industrial Revolution Europe quickly surpassed China. There was just one issue, convinced that they were still doing things the best, the Chinese did not get the memo.
That is not until Europe decided to give it to them, in the form of the Opium Wars, two incredibly humiliating defeats China received at the hands of the British. The British were not stupid, they knew that a land invasion of China would fail miserably due to their population, so instead most both wars were fought on the seas. There the Industrialized armies of the British easily decimated the pre-industrial China-men.
The boat most commonly used by the Chinese during these wars was called the "junk" massive vessels much larger then their modern counterparts by the same name. The Chinese became so desperate during the second opium war that they literally adopted the tactic of throwing armed monkeys aboard the enemies ship. Due to the great size of the junk ships, the decks of the junk ships would look down upon the decks of the British boats. This allowed the Chinese to throw monkeys strapped with explosives onto the other ships.

This idea might sound not too bad at first, but of you think about it the only two areas in which the explosion would do any damage would be the engine room, or the rudder. Both of these locations were obviously guarded well by the British, and due to the nature of monkeys the great majority would climb up the mast before exploding. This was absolutely ineffective on the steamships of the British which unlike pre-industrial boats, relied on stream power for locomotion. As a result there are no records of there "monkey bombs" being effective.
After the humiliation the these two wars the Qing Dynasty launched the Self-Strengthening Movement, a huge movement focused and modernizing and industrializing China. The Self-Strengthening Movement modernized all aspects of Chinese life from their military to the way they interacted with the outside world. But for as good as this all may sound, culturally this was a massive shocker for the whole of China; western culture many times proved harmful to the Chinese proven by the Taiping Rebellion. I'm planning on posting more about it in the future, but the Taiping Rebellion is estimated to be the deadliest military conflict in all of history surpassing even WWII. This Chinese civil war was brought about by Christianities effects as it spread through China.
Related Facts: The Opium Wars
-------------------- Previous Facts
Month One Master List
Halloween Specials Archive
Week Five Archive
11/28/13 Thanksgiving
12/05/13 Hanukkah
-------------------- God kills indiscriminately and so shall we. For no creatures under God are as we are none so like him as ourselves. Want to join a cult? Click for details…
Edited by SARAtonin (12/08/13 02:37 PM)
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: SARAtonin]
#19245332 - 12/08/13 02:35 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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China would have been better off being as perennial as the grass.
now, they have to act like their normal modern people; and it's fuckin' them to high heaven.
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mpd
Lammen Gorthaur



Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 9,660
Loc: Mostly at home... Mostly....
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: akira_akuma]
#19247231 - 12/08/13 09:03 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Which Chinese civil war are you referring to in your missive, Sara?
-------------------- There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: mpd]
#19247431 - 12/08/13 09:42 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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"the Taiping Rebellion is estimated to be the deadliest military conflict in all of history surpassing even WWII.”
I call BS. I doubt there were even that many people living in the area, not to mention warfare wasn’t nearly as deadly.
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: elax420]
#19248618 - 12/09/13 03:04 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
elax420 said: "the Taiping Rebellion is estimated to be the deadliest military conflict in all of history surpassing even WWII.”
I call BS. I doubt there were even that many people living in the area, not to mention warfare wasn’t nearly as deadly.
You'd be surprised then. Warfare was every bit or even more deadly because it was the common practice to leave no survivors at all excepting perhaps those willing to be taken into slavery. Today war is much more expensive due to technology but it is no more deadly at all. Also, a bronze or iron sword doesn't need reloaded and can be used to kill hundreds or more and there were no pensions or survivors benefits for those killed either. Today a million dollar air raid would be used instead of a sword but its no more lethal. I used to have a graph showing what it cost to kill a person in war over history, that is money spent per fatality. In ancient times life was just cheap like the equivilant of a few cents and now its in the tens of thousands of dollars, its expensive because life has become expensive for some reason, thats the only real difference imo.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: Ellis Dee] 1
#19250042 - 12/09/13 01:02 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
Ellis Dee said:
Quote:
elax420 said: "the Taiping Rebellion is estimated to be the deadliest military conflict in all of history surpassing even WWII.”
I call BS. I doubt there were even that many people living in the area, not to mention warfare wasn’t nearly as deadly.
You'd be surprised then. Warfare was every bit or even more deadly because it was the common practice to leave no survivors at all excepting perhaps those willing to be taken into slavery. Today war is much more expensive due to technology but it is no more deadly at all. Also, a bronze or iron sword doesn't need reloaded and can be used to kill hundreds or more and there were no pensions or survivors benefits for those killed either. Today a million dollar air raid would be used instead of a sword but its no more lethal. I used to have a graph showing what it cost to kill a person in war over history, that is money spent per fatality. In ancient times life was just cheap like the equivilant of a few cents and now its in the tens of thousands of dollars, its expensive because life has become expensive for some reason, thats the only real difference imo.
Still call bullshit. Im saying purely by scope of conflict the numbers aren’t possible, not to mention technology, and numbers of participants.
So thats why everyone was so appalled by the crimean war, and then even more so by ww1, and then even more so by ww2? Saying a nuclear strike is no more deadly than a calvary charge is retarded, and that kind of thinking is why ww1 was so fucked up....
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mpd
Lammen Gorthaur



Registered: 10/22/12
Posts: 9,660
Loc: Mostly at home... Mostly....
Last seen: 8 years, 7 months
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: elax420]
#19250229 - 12/09/13 01:45 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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I disagree. I think it is the evolution of warfare on the one hand and inflation on the other.
-------------------- There is no truer calling for mankind than that of true conservatism.
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
Loc: Fire in the sky
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: elax420]
#19251868 - 12/09/13 06:51 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
elax420 said:
Quote:
Ellis Dee said:
Quote:
elax420 said: "the Taiping Rebellion is estimated to be the deadliest military conflict in all of history surpassing even WWII.”
I call BS. I doubt there were even that many people living in the area, not to mention warfare wasn’t nearly as deadly.
You'd be surprised then. Warfare was every bit or even more deadly because it was the common practice to leave no survivors at all excepting perhaps those willing to be taken into slavery. Today war is much more expensive due to technology but it is no more deadly at all. Also, a bronze or iron sword doesn't need reloaded and can be used to kill hundreds or more and there were no pensions or survivors benefits for those killed either. Today a million dollar air raid would be used instead of a sword but its no more lethal. I used to have a graph showing what it cost to kill a person in war over history, that is money spent per fatality. In ancient times life was just cheap like the equivilant of a few cents and now its in the tens of thousands of dollars, its expensive because life has become expensive for some reason, thats the only real difference imo.
Still call bullshit. Im saying purely by scope of conflict the numbers aren’t possible, not to mention technology, and numbers of participants.
So thats why everyone was so appalled by the crimean war, and then even more so by ww1, and then even more so by ww2? Saying a nuclear strike is no more deadly than a calvary charge is retarded, and that kind of thinking is why ww1 was so fucked up....
I think you're just mistaking the method of war for its lethality. A couple thousand years a go a king merely had to raise an army by sending messengers and get them swords or spears or they might even use their farming implement. Then march then like a plague of locusts. And if you can't realize a footed army is as deadly as a atom bomb then the discussion might as well be over. Lets say hypothetically, that instead of bombing Nagasaki the city had been surrounded by men for several months so soften them up by starvation, then the troops had gone in and slaughtered every man woman and child with the sword. That would have been more lethal than the bomb. All the bomb does is make slaughter quick and easy, press a button. It doesn't make it any more lethal or anything. War always is a sordid business but ancient war was expecially face to face. Anyway, if you'll do some research, you'll find this sort of thing is true. Regards.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19251997 - 12/09/13 07:12 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Yes this discussion is over if you seriously think some yokels with a sharpened rock on a stick can kill as many people as a fucking atom bomb.
You know the population in modern times is like infinitely bigger than it was back when you are talking right? I think you have played a few too many video games dude.
Plus its a lot fucking harder to get a guy to stab a kid in the throat with aforementioned rock on a stick, than it is to get a dude to hit a button or pull a trigger from long distances. You already made the argument that we are getting detached from the methods of killing used but don’t realize that makes war much more deadly.....
Its like the argument vegetarians make, not nearly as many people would eat meat if they had to kill and butcher the animals themselves.
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SARAtonin
Violent Dreams


Registered: 09/28/11
Posts: 15,907
Loc: Deutschland
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: elax420] 1
#19252326 - 12/09/13 08:17 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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You realize we are talking about China right? Also if you're "calling bullshit" on an estimation, I'm not too sure you understand the word estimation. (tongue-in-cheek) I don't really want to get into this now because I had planned on making the Taiping rebellion another fact later on down the road. But fact of the matter is more then one historian has estimated over 100,000,000 deaths resulting from the conflict, a 15 year period of total war.
-------------------- God kills indiscriminately and so shall we. For no creatures under God are as we are none so like him as ourselves. Want to join a cult? Click for details…
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: SARAtonin]
#19252417 - 12/09/13 08:36 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Well its just fallacious to call it more deadly than the world wars.
unless your getting into revisionism. I looked up the population of china in 1860 it was like 300 million. No fucking way 1 in 3 people died.
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Ellis Dee
Archangel



Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 13,104
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Last seen: 4 years, 10 months
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: elax420] 1
#19252473 - 12/09/13 08:46 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
elax420 said: Well its just fallacious to call it more deadly than the world wars.
unless your getting into revisionism. I looked up the population of china in 1860 it was like 300 million. No fucking way 1 in 3 people died.
I think thats where the miscommunication is coming from. 1 in 3 is a lot and is in line with wars of that era. Modern people can't seem to understand that population attrition was one of the commonest tactics. Today that sort of extermination of people is called things like war crimes but in truth its how war is throughout history. And the weapons really were sharp sticks and metal too.
Please don't take that to mean I have any sympathies for those butchers, merely that I'm a realist and not a denialist about human's animal nature and our history... We are fascinating and barbarous creatures. Hoping you are well.
-------------------- "If the foundations be destroyed, what can the righteous do."-King Solomon And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: Ellis Dee]
#19252526 - 12/09/13 08:55 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Alright i guess we are at an impasse.
heres what wikipedia says.
With no reliable census at the time, estimates are necessarily based on projections, but the most widely cited sources put the total number of deaths during the 15 years of the rebellion at about 20–30 million civilians and soldiers.[4] [12] Most of the deaths were attributed to plague and famine. At the Third Battle of Nanking in 1864, more than 100,000 were killed in three days.
The rebellion happened at roughly the same time as the American Civil War. Though almost certainly the largest civil war of the 19th century (in terms of numbers under arms), it is debatable whether the Taiping Rebellion involved more soldiers than the Napoleonic Wars earlier in the century, and so it is uncertain whether it should be considered the largest war of the 19th century
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unknown1123
Experimental

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 5,813
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: elax420] 1
#19253177 - 12/09/13 11:11 PM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
elax420 said: Yes this discussion is over if you seriously think some yokels with a sharpened rock on a stick can kill as many people as a fucking atom bomb.
You know the population in modern times is like infinitely bigger than it was back when you are talking right? I think you have played a few too many video games dude.
Plus its a lot fucking harder to get a guy to stab a kid in the throat with aforementioned rock on a stick, than it is to get a dude to hit a button or pull a trigger from long distances. You already made the argument that we are getting detached from the methods of killing used but don’t realize that makes war much more deadly.....
Its like the argument vegetarians make, not nearly as many people would eat meat if they had to kill and butcher the animals themselves.
Just by this statement I can tell you lack intellect.
What the dude you are talking to is trying to say that there were more deaths back then in the wars, thus making them more deadly. Yes thermo-nuclear bombs can potentially kill millions of people, but fact is they haven't. Really if you want to get an estimate of total deaths by nuclear bombs, only 2 in the world that's be used on a enemy, around 150k-180k people. Deaths by sword, probably over a hundred million maybe more than a billion. So the sword is more deadly than nuclear bombs, on a death by death ratio.
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elax420
Anal Destroyer


Registered: 10/16/12
Posts: 15,536
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Re: Saras Fun History Fact of the Day. [Re: unknown1123]
#19253537 - 12/10/13 01:02 AM (10 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
unknown1123 said:
Quote:
elax420 said: Yes this discussion is over if you seriously think some yokels with a sharpened rock on a stick can kill as many people as a fucking atom bomb.
You know the population in modern times is like infinitely bigger than it was back when you are talking right? I think you have played a few too many video games dude.
Plus its a lot fucking harder to get a guy to stab a kid in the throat with aforementioned rock on a stick, than it is to get a dude to hit a button or pull a trigger from long distances. You already made the argument that we are getting detached from the methods of killing used but don’t realize that makes war much more deadly.....
Its like the argument vegetarians make, not nearly as many people would eat meat if they had to kill and butcher the animals themselves.
Just by this statement I can tell you lack intellect.
What the dude you are talking to is trying to say that there were more deaths back then in the wars, thus making them more deadly. Yes thermo-nuclear bombs can potentially kill millions of people, but fact is they haven't. Really if you want to get an estimate of total deaths by nuclear bombs, only 2 in the world that's be used on a enemy, around 150k-180k people. Deaths by sword, probably over a hundred million maybe more than a billion. So the sword is more deadly than nuclear bombs, on a death by death ratio.

Ya i get what point he is trying to make but it is a very weak one at best. thanks for clearing that one up for me sherlock.
Tell me one war that is more deadly than WW2 (pro tip ya can’t)
But i guess you guys are into arguing against raw data. Here have some more http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_and_anthropogenic_disasters_by_death_toll
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