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shivas.wisdom
בּ



Registered: 02/19/09
Posts: 13,462
Loc: Turtle Island
Last seen: 11 hours, 41 minutes
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#18824043 - 09/10/13 04:02 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Does Rolling Stone count?
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Gilgamesh18
Herbivore Man

Registered: 03/01/12
Posts: 11,671
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No but good try
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koods
Ribbit



Registered: 05/26/11
Posts: 106,403
Loc: Maryland/DC Burbs
Last seen: 3 minutes, 45 seconds
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Gilgamesh18]
#18824339 - 09/10/13 05:17 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Gilgamesh18 said:
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shivas.wisdom said:
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Gilgamesh18 said: Actually the burden of proof is on the theist making the god claim as you are doing. So if you can prove your god claim with scientific evidence then I will take the claim seriously.
ARGUMENT FROM GUITAR MASTERY (1) Eric Clapton is God. (2) Therefore, God exists.
If you can link me to some peer reviewed studies on Eric Claptons God status I will build a shrine in his honor and hold services every week praising him to the high heavens!
We do know god is rather negligent when it comes to taking care of his children, so... Yes. Eric Clapton could be god. If Clapton called his Manhattan highrise apartment "Grace," I think that would be confirmation.
Too soon?
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NotSheekle said “if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”
Edited by koods (09/10/13 05:25 PM)
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The Ecstatic
Chilldog Extraordinaire


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 33,573
Loc: 'Merica
Last seen: 3 hours, 38 minutes
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: koods] 2
#18824396 - 09/10/13 05:29 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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JESUS CHRIST!
atheism is a lack, LACK, of belief, dogma, philosophy or anything else.
And Gnosticism, and agnosticism, are total bullshit. Any other topic ever debated, there have been propenents and detractors. There's no fence, or belief supported by unsubstantiated claims.
Imagine an entire subset of people claiming to "know" that bigfoot exists. And another saying they dont know one way or another. For tue record there is absolute zero evidence for such, along with facts from all facets of science supporting that lack of existence.
Then imagine some soft-minded blowhard claim people who know for a fact there isnt a bigfoot have some agenda behind that. Despite it being the only logical conclusion, imagine all these idiots trying to dance around the issur instead of just fucking admitting that there is absolutely no reason to believe, or know, there is a bigfoot.
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

Registered: 05/19/13
Posts: 1,729
Loc: Church of the SubGenus
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Quote:
shivas.wisdom said: maybe to you atheism is about only making the most logical conclusions based on the currently available evidence, but perhaps to another atheist it is solely about denying the existence of a god that they consider forced on them
atheism has no centralized dogma, beyond perhaps the simplest expression of 'lacking belief in a deity'--beyond that it is anyones game--who are you to try and force your personal dogmas onto atheism as a whole?
I like you.
Anyway....
Proselytization is annoying, no matter what your dogma. What irritates people about "militant" atheists and bible-beaters alike is the inherent belief that the adherent has it all figured out and everyone else is an idiot for not understanding that--the folks that are certain that they possess The Truth, and if only you adopt their beliefs, you will also be one of the Enlightened. One might ask why anyone would be so stupid to believe something that isn't proven to exist, but something has to be said for Inspiration, which is ultimately the source of all proven and non-proven things--the Creator-God of Science.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
Edited by BittrBuffalo (09/10/13 07:10 PM)
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 61
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Quote:
BittrBuffalo said: The major problem with the God(s) vs. No God(s) argument is that...
Try reading all of it. What is the point of writing if we do not even bother reading all of it, before adding more and more stuff to read.
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 61
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18824643 - 09/10/13 06:28 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said: Do you really take yourself so seriously as to deny Anything At All?
Yes. I have given my reasons.
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 61
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Nova]
#18824746 - 09/10/13 06:52 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nova said: Lets break things down a bit.
Theism = believing Gnosticism = knowing
All people are either theist/atheist AND ALSO either gnostic/agnostic (they arent mutually exclusive).
"They are mutually exclusive. Agnosticism simply states whether God exists or not cannot be proven. This is a belief. You either know God exists, and knowing about God, you know that He cannot be proven. OR You you know God does not exist, and knowing this, you know He cannot be proven. Either way you would KNOW and by definition and that requires proof. YOU CANNOT KNOW ABOUT SOMETHING THAT IT IS IMPOSSIBLE TO KNOW ABOUT UNLESS YOU KNOW SOMETHING ABOUT IT. So agnosticism, is a belief.
You either adopt atheism or you believe in something." So you cannot be both an agnostic and an atheist.
Edited by pmoseman (09/10/13 07:14 PM)
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 61
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18824773 - 09/10/13 06:58 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said: That's a very clever way of being right no matter what the truth happens to be while taking no responsibility and making no commitments. I kinda admire it to be honest. The only reason you'd have to worry is if the theists turn out to be right. Its no wonder you hold them in such low regard. But as militant an atheist you may be, the theistic route is wrought with the very same reasoning of 'better safe than sorry.' 
"For example, if God is real, but simply cannot be proven, or He can be proven, and is real, then atheism... remains valid. You may think, aha, those atheists have finally been proven wrong, but the FACT that God exists is not a BELIEF and therefore atheism remains unchanged." Other than that I think you've got it right.
Edited by pmoseman (09/10/13 07:00 PM)
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BittrBuffalo
Deaconica

Registered: 05/19/13
Posts: 1,729
Loc: Church of the SubGenus
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: pmoseman]
#18824804 - 09/10/13 07:05 PM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
pmoseman said:
Quote:
BittrBuffalo said: The major problem with the God(s) vs. No God(s) argument is that...
Try reading all of it. What is the point of writing if we do not even bother reading all of it, before adding more and more stuff to read.
That statement was independent of anything specific that anyone has said and wasn't intended to refute anything, but was an observation of what happens in conversations on this particular topic. Since this is the Internet, and we're a bunch of strangers bickering over abstractions that can't possibly be settled, I suspect that the conversation will end predictably. But I have been surprised thus far in that we engaged in hair-splitting over definitions and managed to climb out of that ditch before indulging in the dissecting grammar or spelling as a straw-man. I also expected serious trolling or flaming by this point, possibly accusations of espousing Nazism. So well done, kids. 
Continue.
-------------------- Disclaimer: This post is a work of fiction, provided for entertainment purposes only. Any resemblance to actual persons or events, past or present, is strictly coincidental. All celebrity voices are impersonated. If you begin your ID request with, "I just ate a bunch of these mushrooms…should I not have done that?" I'm just gonna sit back and watch Darwin at work.
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 61
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Quote:
Fire is Born said:
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TwinEclipse said:
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Fire is Born said:
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TwinEclipse said: Would you believe that the future holds the REAL truth for many of our current beliefs?
I do. The future obtains limitless opportunity.
Every developing human being seeks truth, but the mind chooses to believe.
Aren't you just pointing out the blatantly obvious?
Well, if truth were so obvious, why wouldn't the great minds of shroomery agree on concepts of higher order in this universe? So many contrasting views on this thread.
I said that to demonstrate that the present will never hold all the answers; not during the birth of nihilism and probably not in the near future.
What I take from that is...have fun with life and enjoy the ride, cuz that's all you got and respect OTHER's beliefs, cuz that's all THEY got.
So as time goes on we learn more 
Not necessarily. Remember the dark ages? Didn't think so. How about those flying cars, it is 2015 after-all. 2 more years?!! My argument is moot. We are obviously dealing with a time lord.
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 61
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Quote:
BittrBuffalo said:
Quote:
pmoseman said:
Quote:
BittrBuffalo said: The major problem with the God(s) vs. No God(s) argument is that...
Try reading all of it. What is the point of writing if we do not even bother reading all of it, before adding more and more stuff to read.
That statement was independent of anything specific that anyone has said and wasn't intended to refute anything, but was an observation of what happens in conversations on this particular topic. Since this is the Internet, and we're a bunch of strangers bickering over abstractions that can't possibly be settled, I suspect that the conversation will end predictably. But I have been surprised thus far in that we engaged in hair-splitting over definitions and managed to climb out of that ditch before indulging in the dissecting grammar or spelling as a straw-man. I also expected serious trolling or flaming by this point, possibly accusations of espousing Nazism. So well done, kids. 
Continue. 
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Blend
afferent orchestra


Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
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Quote:
RiderOnTheStorm said:
Quote:
deadendeavor said: That's a very clever way of being right no matter what the truth happens to be while taking no responsibility and making no commitments. I kinda admire it to be honest. The only reason you'd have to worry is if the theists turn out to be right. Its no wonder you hold them in such low regard. But as militant an atheist you may be, the theistic route is wrought with the very same reasoning of 'better safe than sorry.' 
You seem to either be intentionally twisting his logic or you've got your own all bungled up.
Koods, Joie, myself and the other atheists in this thread are saying that most atheists do not believe that there is a 0% chance of god existing. Most take the stance that because no compelling evidence of any kind has ever been presented, there is no reason to believe in the existence of any of the gods in modern or ancient religions.
You know there are cross-cultural concepts and stories of mermaids, but also that there's never been any evidence they exist (despite what the "History" channel might farce up). Are you agnostic about mermaids? Theoretically, though quite improbably, they could exist in some small pocket of the ocean that we've yet to explore.
Koods and I would agree that mermaids don't exist. If a mermaid appeared on south beach and marine biologists presented evidence that determined it was a genuine organic creature, we would then change our stances. If a carcass got fished up by a boat, we might even reevaluate our doubts on their existence. There's no reason to presently be agnostic about mermaids though, nor is there any reason to be about god.
Agnosticism is not the base level stance like agnostics want to make it sound, you're not agnostic about the Flying Spaghetti Monster or sharknados or mermaids, yet all of those have more evidence supporting the possibility of their existence than god does. And you accuse atheism of dodging responsibility and commitment!
It only seems that I'm passing judgment. You may be right about twisting logic. My mind has indeed been twisting lately. And my stance is no "better" or "worse" than anyone's as I see it. I like the agnostic approach of simply admitting that I Don't Know. I am more skeptical than some of you seem to catch onto. Even if there Were some evidence pointing toward any "Truth" I would hesitate to believe it to be legit. Science is never complete, remember. I'm not knocking science, that would be inane. Only pointing out that anything we may think we know with certainty seems historically to be a never learned lesson in futility. You say you and others don't believe mermaids exist, for instance. Why rule it out like that? I mean I know you'll come back and play the "until further evidence " card, but there seems to be two contradicting forces at work here. That's what I'm finding interesting. Where I would say "maybe", and perhaps even think up ways of finding out, you seem to say "lol, I doubt it", and perhaps even think up ways of debunking such claims.
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Blend
afferent orchestra


Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18826092 - 09/11/13 12:51 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Again, I'm not saying either side is superior, I just prefer one approach over another. Really I'm just trying to better understand the stance.
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pmoseman
Illogical Ninja


Registered: 08/29/13
Posts: 61
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: Blend]
#18826112 - 09/11/13 12:59 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
deadendeavor said: ... That's what I'm finding interesting. Where I would say "maybe", and perhaps even think up ways of finding out, you seem to say "lol, I doubt it", and perhaps even think up ways of debunking such claims.
These would both lead us toward the truth.
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Blend
afferent orchestra


Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 2,949
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Re: atheism is small minded. [Re: pmoseman]
#18826134 - 09/11/13 01:03 AM (10 years, 5 months ago) |
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Correct! I definitely agree.
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