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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Does the school system really want to dumb us down?
#18823734 - 09/10/13 02:51 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've never really fit in at school because everything just goes so slow for me. I feel as if I'm being taught these concepts like I'm mentally handicapped. I can't tell if most people just learn at that slower speed, or the people that already control so much want the rest of us just to be idiots 
I gave up on all the crazy conspiracy theories a few years ago. I don't think there's a New World Order in place, I don't believe Obama is a reptilian (lol), I don't think the illuminati is secretly controlling the world. I don't necessarily not think any of that is possible, but more than likely the people that have lots of stuff have simply made some really simple rules to keep it that way, it's not that difficult.
So to my point, I think the people who make the rules and own most of the "stuff" in the world benefit by having the rest of the population not reach their full potential mentally. This is just a guess but I feel if you just look around there's a decent amount of evidence to support that.
Today in my writing class (I pay $$$ to go to "college" a tech school, but still) our class spent the whole hour and a half watching a really fucking stupid movie. Like those really corny movies you watch in middle school. Except now I'm paying them to hopefully give me a LITTLE more effort than press play on a pathetic movie and then when it's over class is dismissed "see ya guys next time." 
Last class, we google searched some very simple questions the whole time and copy pasted the answers in a document. That was all we did. At least we learned SOMETHING (like, in 1948 or something Russia blockaded a side of Berlin so the USA had to go in and airdrop some supplies so the people could survive). Yea I learned that in a composition class. Today I learned, well, absolutely nothing. Maybe there isn't a big agenda behind this, and our educators are just getting lazy. The reason doesn't matter; this is just embarrassing. I try and write every single day to enhance my abilities, and because I want to write a book (you guys can all read it for free it's not for me to make $). But by taking this class, off the top of my head I can think of so many things our professor could be trying to teach us. Like how to use one of these ; I don't think most people know how. I'm pretty sure I understand it but if I didn't, I could always say nobody taught me. If you have even a high school education I think one should understand basic grammatical structure...
This kind of thing really does eat at me because I feel like it stretches the gap between truly educated individuals, and then everyone else, even the pseudo "I got a 4 year marketing degree that makes me smart" kind of people. I thought up this quote recently - "You know that kind of intelligence you can't teach? I have that." I honestly wonder "when are things going to actually get difficult? Where's the challenge?"
This causes boredom, boredom leads to drug use, drug use leads to further ostracization (inventing that word right now) and I continue to get nowhere. I tell myself I want an education but I wonder how I'll ever make it through without completely boring myself out of it. My first year in college right after high school a couple years back, I partly failed out of some classes because I got sick, but also because of the same shit - I simply couldn't stand the fact that these "college" level classes I was taking just seemed like an oh so slightly harder form of high school. I'm afraid after my generals there's either going to be a huge gap to overcome where all of a sudden things really do become a challenge, or that challenge will simply never arrive and I'll go through school the whole time wondering "what on earth is with this place??"
In fact, I felt a little less intelligent after that class, compared to if I would have just stayed home. At least here I can search things on the internet and even if I'm reading something stupid I can be critical of it and learn in that way. I'm the kind of person that isn't simply work 8 hours, play 8 hours, sleep 8 hours. It's more like sleep when it's needed, work the whole time, and play the entire time I'm working. I don't try and "stop learning" when I'm not in a learning environment i.e school or work. I think most people do that and it really limits them. I also don't think those are the type of people that care about that kind of stuff though, either.
Basically at the end of class 
During class though some girl a few rows in front of me was popping pills. I spent a lot of time wondering what those were... my guess is adderall since she couldn't fucking sit still either
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: extreme]
#18823758 - 09/10/13 02:57 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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good lord i can sympathize! I graduated high school this last year and slept my way through the entire 4 years, graduating with a 4.0 all the while wondering "wheres the challenge?" I'm taking a year off before going back to college, and i hope to god its challenging, fuck spending that kind of money to have a teacher hand out packets and put on videos. But my goal is to get into Berkeley so i'm fairly certain I will get quite a challenge (thank god).
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: extreme]
#18824896 - 09/10/13 07:27 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
extreme said: I've never really fit in at school because everything just goes so slow for me. I feel as if I'm being taught these concepts like I'm mentally handicapped. I can't tell if most people just learn at that slower speed, or the people that already control so much want the rest of us just to be idiots 
I gave up on all the crazy conspiracy theories a few years ago. I don't think there's a New World Order in place, I don't believe Obama is a reptilian (lol), I don't think the illuminati is secretly controlling the world. I don't necessarily not think any of that is possible, but more than likely the people that have lots of stuff have simply made some really simple rules to keep it that way, it's not that difficult.
So to my point, I think the people who make the rules and own most of the "stuff" in the world benefit by having the rest of the population not reach their full potential mentally. This is just a guess but I feel if you just look around there's a decent amount of evidence to support that.
Today in my writing class (I pay $$$ to go to "college" a tech school, but still) our class spent the whole hour and a half watching a really fucking stupid movie. Like those really corny movies you watch in middle school. Except now I'm paying them to hopefully give me a LITTLE more effort than press play on a pathetic movie and then when it's over class is dismissed "see ya guys next time." 
Last class, we google searched some very simple questions the whole time and copy pasted the answers in a document. That was all we did. At least we learned SOMETHING (like, in 1948 or something Russia blockaded a side of Berlin so the USA had to go in and airdrop some supplies so the people could survive). Yea I learned that in a composition class. Today I learned, well, absolutely nothing. Maybe there isn't a big agenda behind this, and our educators are just getting lazy. The reason doesn't matter; this is just embarrassing. I try and write every single day to enhance my abilities, and because I want to write a book (you guys can all read it for free it's not for me to make $). But by taking this class, off the top of my head I can think of so many things our professor could be trying to teach us. Like how to use one of these ; I don't think most people know how. I'm pretty sure I understand it but if I didn't, I could always say nobody taught me. If you have even a high school education I think one should understand basic grammatical structure...
This kind of thing really does eat at me because I feel like it stretches the gap between truly educated individuals, and then everyone else, even the pseudo "I got a 4 year marketing degree that makes me smart" kind of people. I thought up this quote recently - "You know that kind of intelligence you can't teach? I have that." I honestly wonder "when are things going to actually get difficult? Where's the challenge?"
This causes boredom, boredom leads to drug use, drug use leads to further ostracization (inventing that word right now) and I continue to get nowhere. I tell myself I want an education but I wonder how I'll ever make it through without completely boring myself out of it. My first year in college right after high school a couple years back, I partly failed out of some classes because I got sick, but also because of the same shit - I simply couldn't stand the fact that these "college" level classes I was taking just seemed like an oh so slightly harder form of high school. I'm afraid after my generals there's either going to be a huge gap to overcome where all of a sudden things really do become a challenge, or that challenge will simply never arrive and I'll go through school the whole time wondering "what on earth is with this place??"
In fact, I felt a little less intelligent after that class, compared to if I would have just stayed home. At least here I can search things on the internet and even if I'm reading something stupid I can be critical of it and learn in that way. I'm the kind of person that isn't simply work 8 hours, play 8 hours, sleep 8 hours. It's more like sleep when it's needed, work the whole time, and play the entire time I'm working. I don't try and "stop learning" when I'm not in a learning environment i.e school or work. I think most people do that and it really limits them. I also don't think those are the type of people that care about that kind of stuff though, either.
Basically at the end of class 
During class though some girl a few rows in front of me was popping pills. I spent a lot of time wondering what those were... my guess is adderall since she couldn't fucking sit still either 
I would guess you have been consuming fluoride and/or are a shill and too dumb/greedy to care. Basically. Duhhhhhh.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: LunarEclipse]
#18825176 - 09/10/13 08:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
psyconaught said: good lord i can sympathize! I graduated high school this last year and slept my way through the entire 4 years, graduating with a 4.0 all the while wondering "wheres the challenge?" I'm taking a year off before going back to college, and i hope to god its challenging, fuck spending that kind of money to have a teacher hand out packets and put on videos. But my goal is to get into Berkeley so i'm fairly certain I will get quite a challenge (thank god).
Good luck x1000 for getting into Berkeley that would be sweet! I'm sure it's a notch past technical college LOL.
Quote:
LunarEclipse said: I would guess you have been consuming fluoride and/or are a shill and too dumb/greedy to care. Basically. Duhhhhhh.
So what should I do about it? Just suck it up and don't think about it? (not saying that sarcastically.. serious question)
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johnm214


Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: LunarEclipse]
#18825200 - 09/10/13 08:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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LunarEclipse: Do not call other poster's dumb or speculate as to whether they may be dumb.
Consider this a warning
-john
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: johnm214]
#18825227 - 09/10/13 08:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
johnm214 said: LunarEclipse: Do not call other poster's dumb or speculate as to whether they may be dumb.
Consider this a warning
-john
I was actually gonna let it slide since he kinda tried to give an answer at the end (the "duhhhhhhh"). I'm aware that most of the posters here tend to have more sarcastic personalities, especially the older folks. Thanks for having my back though johnm214
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: extreme]
#18826787 - 09/11/13 07:55 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
extreme said:
Quote:
johnm214 said: LunarEclipse: Do not call other poster's dumb or speculate as to whether they may be dumb.
Consider this a warning
-john
I was actually gonna let it slide since he kinda tried to give an answer at the end (the "duhhhhhhh"). I'm aware that most of the posters here tend to have more sarcastic personalities, especially the older folks. Thanks for having my back though johnm214 
Sorry John and extreme upon actually reading the entire thread it made more sense.
OP you are on the right track in some ways, you see the BS. But you still are a part of it, going to school, taking classes, working at making the grade. You aren't "dumb", you just don't understand "the system". Whether the elites, or college.
The system as you sort of noted, is designed to make people feel good and important, while actually realizing people (the masses) are a bunch of goons that don't deserve anything but having their money taken. So, the system largely makes the masses work work work for something deemed important like a college degree. Get in debt, then have to work work work at an important job to pay it off.
Like you, I was discouraged with a lot of the so called top notch college classes. In my case, some of the college classes were actually less challenging than in HS.
So my advice or comment to you would be to try not to get confused by what is really going on. It's a fleecing, and people seem to love to go to the barber.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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kennedy


Registered: 02/11/09
Posts: 432
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: LunarEclipse] 1
#18826954 - 09/11/13 08:49 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I felt the same way in school, but I don't think that it's meant to be a form of control, I think that universities probably just like to pass as many people through the system as possible. They're pretty much just selling Bachelor's degrees.
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: kennedy]
#18827379 - 09/11/13 11:37 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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@ Lunar - Don't underestimate me now, I'm a pretty humble person and a lot of times that prevents me from giving myself credit where credit is due, but under the circumstances I've been given I'm a pretty bright fella. I specifically post in this forum to learn though; I feel like a wee tadpole here sometimes but that's OK because I have a lot of potential. I come here to see the opinions of people that have been around the block a few more times than I have and have been able to learn through experience and time. You're one of my favorite posters here Lunar and I really respect what you seem to know but I would like you to appreciate me in return. I've always considered writing to be one of my strengths too, but understand I'm a very critical person and even my best thoughts communicated outside of my head aren't going to look as great as what I see within myself. I'm working on that. This is the only forum here that is extremely critical of ideas and really takes a close look at them, and I think that's a VERY important thing for us all. I already forgot what the difference is between a Straw Man Fallacy and the Red Herring Fallacy (the definition anyway) yet I still ended up with a rough 98.5% in my critical thinking class last semester - which I think this forum should be renamed to - the Critical Thinking Forum. I'm not trying to be cocky I'm just saying I pick up on things really easily. Just let your wisdom run wild and I will always have a lot of respect for that.
Even you cynical bastards of this forum (I'm the next generation of that) I love you guys (and gals). 
But you still are a part of it, going to school, taking classes, working at making the grade
Basically my question here is, do we have any other choice?? To tell you truth I recently thought about becoming a farmer, true story. Make my own food, live completely independent from the "system." But even FARMING is becoming a corporation. I've thought about just waiting for a full time spot at my job. It's basically always plan B. It's hard, physical work, but I could definitely support myself and a family (although modestly) if I got a full time spot. Great benefits too.
I don't want to be part of the system... but I just feel an obligation, as if there is no alternative. I don't want to support those that don't care for me (I've done it before and it's lame), but how else can a human survive on this planet?
The system as you sort of noted, is designed to make people feel good and important, while actually realizing people (the masses) are a bunch of goons that don't deserve anything but having their money taken. So, the system largely makes the masses work work work for something deemed important like a college degree. Get in debt, then have to work work work at an important job to pay it off
Yea the whole "feel good" part doesn't seem to have worked on me as well as it takes hold of other people. I mean earning an A on a test or writing a nice paper makes me feel good, but in the back of my mind I still wonder "so what was the point to that??" The added element of watching everyone else reach their goals like this but not really get anywhere makes it that much harder. My twin sister recently got her Bachelor's in some sales type major. She went to a fairly big university and all, now she's got a ton of debt. One of the most important things to me is have zero debt. Right now I have zero debt. I'm proud of that. What also frightens me is job security after graduation. I hear of so many people that get their degree as if all of their problems are immediately solved, but that is rarely the case and I see so many people going back to their low end jobs they were working at before they went to school or while they were in school. I'd be pretty frustrated if I earned a 4 year degree and had to do blue collar work again...
Well thanks for the thoughtful comment Lunar I appreciate it. Do you mind if I ask you at what point you stopped going to college (did you end up getting a degree)? It seems you've had something work for you!
I felt the same way in school, but I don't think that it's meant to be a form of control, I think that universities probably just like to pass as many people through the system as possible. They're pretty much just selling Bachelor's degrees.
I don't think the people at the top really care if other people have money and nice things too, as long as the people at the top still have the most!
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psyconaught
Chemical Connoisseur


Registered: 11/04/10
Posts: 6,100
Last seen: 7 years, 2 months
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: extreme]
#18827889 - 09/11/13 01:50 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just stumbled upon this video, its very applicable, i absolutely love this speech
-------------------- Think for yourself, question authority
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: psyconaught]
#18827974 - 09/11/13 02:16 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The system is designed for people who have no fucking clue what they want to do with life. If a person had an agenda they would discover for themselves the steps to go from A to B. But most people aren't like that. I ask young people all the time what they want to do. A typical answer might be "A marine biologist, or maybe a nurse". They will end up being a nurse. They don't know what they want to do so the system will decide for them.
And the job market is shrinking. There's only so many people you can justify pushing through a shop class these days, or teaching advanced math to. When specialty jobs become tight only the motivated will find themselves in those positions. It's an effect of the computerization of culture and society. With computers less math is needed from the common person and less math is needed by the mid-level person. With automation the need for highly skilled labor is reduced. Mandatory education no longer needs to produce anything more than a student that can handle basic math reading and writing skills.
There's another factor that involves the idea of population control. Prosperity needs to be controlled. I'm not saying they're going about it the right way and perhaps there isn't a right way (though I have a few ideas), but trying to educate the general population to a high degree so they can be as successful as possible and have as many babies as possible isn't going to control the population. This is a highly debatable subject and I'm not saying it holds true, but I can't help but think it factors in.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: psyconaught]
#18827986 - 09/11/13 02:18 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nice. I can relate a lot to what she's saying. "I'm just the best at doing what I am told" I happen to be very good at that too... but in later years I also question what I'm told, and that doesn't make it any easier!
I've always thought the whole point of memorization and recall being a major part in school is just ridiculous. It only shows you can memorize things. She said you cram to memorize things for a test, and after the test you clear your mind so you can fill it with other information for the next test. I don't remember most of the "statistics" I was ever taught in school. I think writing should be emphasized like ten times more than it is now, if we truly wanted everyone to achieve their full potential. It forces students to form their own thoughts and opinions, instead of just regurgitating others. I can learn a lot simply by righting to myself. I can see what I've written, and it always looks a little different when I read it back to myself outside of my head.
I think knowing HOW to learn information, knowing where to find it if you don't have it stored in your brain, and being objective and asking "why?" to the questions will lead to a much more developed mind. I think having a sense of understanding and WHY something is the way it is a much better approach.
She was able to focus on the work given to her, she focused on taking notes and studied to be a good "test taker." Her classmates would miss assignments because they were "at home reading about an interest of theirs. While others were making art or writing lyrics, I was doing the extra credit." Doing well in school is actually a pretty specific skill when you really look at it. I'm going to stop the vid here because I could probably continue to quote her a lot and end up with a very long post lol. I do wonder, though, when she realized all this and had that "aha" moment, or if she ALWAYS knew this is the way things work but just followed the system anyway. That's a very profound speech though, and it's also very considerate of her other classmates, basically saying "hey just because I'm #1 with my GPA doesn't mean you guys don't have unique and great gifts yourselves" 
This kind of goes back to what Lunar said "But you still are a part of it, going to school, taking classes, working at making the grade"
That video is a nice response to that. I think it sounds a little more genuine when someone that's been a part of the system, hell has MASTERED the system, speaks out against it. Her voice and credentials have the chance to speak a lot louder and can change a lot more than whoever profited off of her as an individual going through the system.
Unless you're an extremely gifted artist, there is very little chance for anyone to make any changes or speak to the masses around here without the credentials. When it comes to solving real problems, people simply need to have an education. That doesn't mean they are educated, but they do need to have some sort of proof that shows they have used their brain.
What do I want to change, you ask? Well I'd like to try and end the drug war. If I can't, I'd like to help people on an interpersonal level with the struggles they face. I'm no stranger to tough times but I feel I'm here to help people. Nobody is going to listen to me or trust me though if I don't go through the hoops, as painful as it is. When I get to the end I just have more power "when I was a freshman I thought this was stupid, but 150 credit hours (and 4 years) later and this piece of paper, I still think this is stupid!"
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: extreme]
#18828043 - 09/11/13 02:30 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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The system is designed for people who have no fucking clue what they want to do with life. If a person had an agenda they would discover for themselves the steps to go from A to B. But most people aren't like that. I ask young people all the time what they want to do. A typical answer might be "A marine biologist, or maybe a nurse". They will end up being a nurse. They don't know what they want to do so the system will decide for them
That sounds a lot like me, and has definitely made things more difficult. I've never been able to narrow it down "this is what I want to do for the rest of my life" - I don't think I'll ever really know. One thing I'm not clear on though is when you say "they don't know what they want to do so the system will decide for them." Can you elaborate a little please? Do you mean someone who has a few options in mind will normally just default to the simplest path or something? If I had a very specific goal in mind I'd definitely be more motivated to put in extra time and effort.
I know a lot of people that don't know what they want to do in life. They tend to be the sorta philosophical, dreamer type, like me. As for work, they usually stress a lot about the "career" aspect and get caught up doing more mindless work for a while. A good friend of mine just started going back to college this semester too. Well actually this is his first time in college. I'm sure he's hesitant, but we're just at the stage "well what better chance do we have than this?" 
I'll let at least a couple people post now before I post again I feel like I'm stealing my own thread I want to hear other opinions too!
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: extreme]
#18828064 - 09/11/13 02:34 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sorry but I'm going to sneak one more post in here since I believe this is relevant. I just remembered making this post a few months back. Yea apparently I've been hesitant for quite some time now. Also this particularly relates to some of your comments Rahz.
http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/18124598#18124598
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Rahz
Alive Again



Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: extreme]
#18828415 - 09/11/13 03:43 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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My favorite job ever was in construction cleanup when I was in my early 20s. I drove a 5 ton dump truck to construction sites (mostly residential) and hauled off all the scrap. It was grueling work but I could get high, take breaks whenever I felt like it, decide my own routes for the day, take lunch at my leisure, and break bad on some left over construction materials. During the summer after a job it was exhilarating to drive down the road standing on the sideboard with the door wide open.
That extra bit of sweat during lunch hour really turns the strippers on.
Ahh, those were the days.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Withinity
Untitled


Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 1,357
Loc: Côte d’Ivoire
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: extreme]
#18829759 - 09/11/13 08:21 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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From my observation on schools and the schooling system , there are various aspects to consider , mainly the difference between whats is claimed to be taught and the other 'lessons' learned by just being there;
Theirs the curriculum which is taught that consists of Math, p.e , science etc
And then positive and negative reinforcement which constantly comes into play.
Successful students which complied with the laws of positive reinforcement within the schooling system are more likely to go onto further education such as University.
I have even noticed their is a difference of degree to the enforcement of these things when comparing private to public schools ,
I mean take student from a public school and a private school, the textbooks and overall curriculum they receive in class are relatively similar though private schools are much more strict and generous while operating under a system of positive and negative reinforcement. Private school in turn are more likely to teach children how to act in 'higher' or 'civilized' society even granting the connections to operate within the future generation.
Rich people do understand these principles and the importance of establishing the 'right' network, their children are not sent to these school just because they can.
I don't think school necessarily dumb's you down , though i think the main premise of its existence is to get you successfully working for the system and society , just like any organization loyalty is important and questioning may indicate a sign of otherwise so naturally you would not be trained to really question to much.
There is much to be said on this subject.
--------------------
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: extreme]
#18829795 - 09/11/13 08:33 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
extreme said: @ Lunar - Don't underestimate me now, I'm a pretty humble person and a lot of times that prevents me from giving myself credit where credit is due, but under the circumstances I've been given I'm a pretty bright fella. I specifically post in this forum to learn though; I feel like a wee tadpole here sometimes but that's OK because I have a lot of potential. I come here to see the opinions of people that have been around the block a few more times than I have and have been able to learn through experience and time. You're one of my favorite posters here Lunar and I really respect what you seem to know but I would like you to appreciate me in return. I've always considered writing to be one of my strengths too, but understand I'm a very critical person and even my best thoughts communicated outside of my head aren't going to look as great as what I see within myself. I'm working on that. This is the only forum here that is extremely critical of ideas and really takes a close look at them, and I think that's a VERY important thing for us all. I already forgot what the difference is between a Straw Man Fallacy and the Red Herring Fallacy (the definition anyway) yet I still ended up with a rough 98.5% in my critical thinking class last semester - which I think this forum should be renamed to - the Critical Thinking Forum. I'm not trying to be cocky I'm just saying I pick up on things really easily. Just let your wisdom run wild and I will always have a lot of respect for that.
Even you cynical bastards of this forum (I'm the next generation of that) I love you guys (and gals). 
But you still are a part of it, going to school, taking classes, working at making the grade
Basically my question here is, do we have any other choice?? To tell you truth I recently thought about becoming a farmer, true story. Make my own food, live completely independent from the "system." But even FARMING is becoming a corporation. I've thought about just waiting for a full time spot at my job. It's basically always plan B. It's hard, physical work, but I could definitely support myself and a family (although modestly) if I got a full time spot. Great benefits too.
I don't want to be part of the system... but I just feel an obligation, as if there is no alternative. I don't want to support those that don't care for me (I've done it before and it's lame), but how else can a human survive on this planet?
The system as you sort of noted, is designed to make people feel good and important, while actually realizing people (the masses) are a bunch of goons that don't deserve anything but having their money taken. So, the system largely makes the masses work work work for something deemed important like a college degree. Get in debt, then have to work work work at an important job to pay it off
Yea the whole "feel good" part doesn't seem to have worked on me as well as it takes hold of other people. I mean earning an A on a test or writing a nice paper makes me feel good, but in the back of my mind I still wonder "so what was the point to that??" The added element of watching everyone else reach their goals like this but not really get anywhere makes it that much harder. My twin sister recently got her Bachelor's in some sales type major. She went to a fairly big university and all, now she's got a ton of debt. One of the most important things to me is have zero debt. Right now I have zero debt. I'm proud of that. What also frightens me is job security after graduation. I hear of so many people that get their degree as if all of their problems are immediately solved, but that is rarely the case and I see so many people going back to their low end jobs they were working at before they went to school or while they were in school. I'd be pretty frustrated if I earned a 4 year degree and had to do blue collar work again...
Well thanks for the thoughtful comment Lunar I appreciate it. Do you mind if I ask you at what point you stopped going to college (did you end up getting a degree)? It seems you've had something work for you!
I felt the same way in school, but I don't think that it's meant to be a form of control, I think that universities probably just like to pass as many people through the system as possible. They're pretty much just selling Bachelor's degrees.
I don't think the people at the top really care if other people have money and nice things too, as long as the people at the top still have the most!
Well extreme thank you for your appreciation! You do seem like a bright fellow after all. LOL.
I got a BS in Food Science. They BSed me, and I got a degree. But it was a good choice in a major, got me a job when times were tough, mid seventies recession was a deep one. Let's just say the philosophy majors weren't being hired by General Foods.
Good for you, no student debt. I paid some, my folks always thought college was so important, they paid some, and I didn't work during school. Besides, back then it was probably about 12% of now. For out of state to the state school versus the "arts and farts" (we didn't say that but it has a nice ring) not too bad. The arts school was way more, and just not that great. I mean I could take arts school classes, just not too many. Yippee.
Well that's it OP keep your nose to the grindstone, head down, work is good, and if you think too much you may just shoot yourself. Or jump.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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Spacerific
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Registered: 10/13/12
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: LunarEclipse]
#18832351 - 09/12/13 12:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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John Taylor Gatto. Explains the whole thing. Award winning teacher for several decades, knows the system inside out. His work confirms that yes, absolutely, public school is made to dumb you down, and does so not through incompetence, but by intentional design.
The effects of school and those of TV and advertising are very similar. Short attention span, shallow short term thinking, a sense of nervousness and seeking approval from others, or buying the right products to fix that, etc. Not much else I can write here, Gatto explained the whole sad truth far better than I ever could. Watch it and weep.
-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: Spacerific]
#18833952 - 09/12/13 07:39 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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It should have been obvious long ago. Parent Teachers Association.
I Don't Think So!!!
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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LunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: Spacerific]
#18834017 - 09/12/13 07:54 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Spacerific said: John Taylor Gatto. Explains the whole thing. Award winning teacher for several decades, knows the system inside out. His work confirms that yes, absolutely, public school is made to dumb you down, and does so not through incompetence, but by intentional design.
The effects of school and those of TV and advertising are very similar. Short attention span, shallow short term thinking, a sense of nervousness and seeking approval from others, or buying the right products to fix that, etc.
Not much else I can write here, Gatto explained the whole sad truth far better than I ever could. Watch it and weep.
It's all true what you say. Sad but true. I was an all state drummer in one of the best high school bands in the land. Fuck school I was a musician and still am. Like these guys.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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viktor
psychotechnician



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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: extreme]
#18834614 - 09/12/13 10:01 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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You might as well have been describing my own problems at school. By fluke I became aware at a young age that I would need to decide my own moral values (thanks Nietzsche) and then the expectations of society became little more than an annoyance, like a barking dog a few blocks away.
I think the truth is that 99% of society would go mental without these structures/strictures in place, and they don't care if you don't like them because the idea (I think) is that you should be able to direct your own learning after a certain point.
Doing a Master's Degree was great for me. I found it very difficult but at the end of it you certainly can direct your own learning (which is what a Master is).
It seems to me that 1 in every 100 or so men simply must be the captain of his own ship. I started a publishing company to get around the problem of taking orders from intellectual inferiors, which had up until then driven me bananas.
-------------------- "They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."
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Hobozen


Registered: 11/03/11
Posts: 10,634
Loc:
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: viktor]
#18834836 - 09/12/13 10:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Gaining facts is one thing but being able to apply that info to an envisioned whole where the pieces flow and grow through interconnection with the direction of creative intent is... Some thing the education system seems intent on overlooking.
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Spacerific
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Re: Does the school system really want to dumb us down? [Re: Hobozen]
#18835387 - 09/13/13 01:38 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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-------------------- Blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
For truly, I say to you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it. - Matthew 13:16
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: Does the <nobr><a href="#" class="FAtxtL" id="FALINK_2_0_1">school</a></nobr> system really want to dumb us down? [Re: Spacerific]
#18837190 - 09/13/13 02:26 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Great posts everyone. Thanks Spacerific for the interesting vid 
Well that's it OP keep your nose to the grindstone, head down, work is good, and if you think too much you may just shoot yourself. Or jump
Yea thinking too much can definitely be a bad thing for me sometimes lol. I've accepted that this is just the way things are before, and sometimes just zoning out in class yet still getting points for attendance can sort of even the playing field with the rest of the class. Right now I'm just not reading my composition textbook since it's not teaching me anything, so maybe I'll write like any other kid fresh out of high school. That's doubtful though, when I took this same class when I was 18 I was amazed even then at how bad most people are at writing. I had a minor epiphany if that's what you wanna call it Wed night, it was the best inside joke EVER (the punchline had ties with this thread). Life has seemed a little less serious since then 
Doing a Master's Degree was great for me. I found it very difficult but at the end of it you certainly can direct your own learning (which is what a Master is)
I was kinda hoping somebody would touch on this. It wasn't the entire point of this thread but one of my questions was "when does it get more difficult?" This seems to answer that question. I also like your captain of your own ship analogy.. I don't like letting other people control me, especially when they don't seem qualified themselves.
Quote:
Spacerific said:

Big fancy flat screen TVs and video games probably haven't helped much in recent times lol. It wasn't long ago people read books and had to use their imagination.
So guys my first essay for this class is an "evaluation essay." I'm supposed to express an opinion and persuade my audience to accept my viewpoint. I tend to do better when I write about things I'm passionate about but sometimes those things can be pretty controversial. Any ideas?? I've got some brainstorming to do this weekend (by far the hardest part for me in writing essays is picking a topic that isn't too edgy but is still interesting enough for me to actually write a decent paper).
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: Does the <nobr><a href="#" class="FAtxtL" id="FALINK_2_0_1">school</a></nobr> system really want to dumb us down? [Re: extreme]
#18837219 - 09/13/13 02:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yea thinking too much can definitely be a bad thing for me sometimes lol.
Maybe you should try thinking more about the external, it often seem like you're quite self-centered IMO. There's a lot of focus on 'I' in your posts.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Re: Does the <nobr><a href="#" class="FAtxtL" id="FALINK_2_0_1">school</a></nobr> system really want to dumb us down? [Re: liquidlounge]
#18837260 - 09/13/13 02:49 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: Yea thinking too much can definitely be a bad thing for me sometimes lol.
Maybe you should try thinking more about the external, it often seem like you're quite self-centered IMO. There's a lot of focus on 'I' in your posts.
Thanks for your insightful feedback
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: Does the <nobr><a href= [Re: extreme]
#18837338 - 09/13/13 03:11 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Subjective feelings are great contributors to chaos.
Edited by liquidlounge (09/13/13 03:20 PM)
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: Subjective feelings are great contributors to chaos. 
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: hypocrisy [Re: extreme]
#18837443 - 09/13/13 03:38 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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There it's.
You claim to be a critical person, is this critique ever directed towards yourself? Try reading most of your posts in this forum and you might come to the same conclusion as I do.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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Whatever man, I really don't care now. Thanks for adding nothing constructive at all to this thread. Everything I've said in here as far as personal observations go are just that, personal observations. I'm not stating them as facts and I'm open to other ideas from other people. I dunno, my apologies if I come off so sure of myself and everything I believe, because I'm not.
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: hypocrisy [Re: extreme]
#18837527 - 09/13/13 04:00 PM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for adding nothing constructive at all to this thread.
I gave feedback on why you feel that you think too much and how it can be a bad thing for you.
I'm open to other ideas from other people.
Not when it gets serious.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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extreme


Registered: 04/05/11
Posts: 9,340
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k. u win
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