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underfliptown
I suck and you should kill me


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 14,344
Last seen: 8 years, 5 months
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new pressure cooker.
#18821495 - 09/10/13 12:12 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I just got a new PC and i realized when i took it out of the box that there was no actual PSI guage. What should I do to measure the psi? Is it possible to oversterilize wild bird seed?
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Quote:
underfliptown said: What should I do to measure the psi?
Read the manual to see what PSI the weight operates at.
Quote:
Is it possible to oversterilize wild bird seed?
No, but it is possible to under-sterilize the bird seed.
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underfliptown
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The manual said nothing about PSI
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



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What is the make and model?
I think I know what you are talking about and it is not going to work for this...
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underfliptown
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



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You got a horrid chinese knock-off pressure cooker. I doubt that will even reach 10 PSI.
Any time a pressure cooker is so vague as to not mention the PSI it operates at, expect it to not be worth your money for mushroom cultivation.
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news
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underfliptown
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do you think it will still work? I could just increase the time i cook it for.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Can you spare $30 to get a cheap one at a retail outlet near you?
The PC you pick up will no doubt hit 15 psi and it will say so on the box.
If you want to risk it, that is your choice but I recommend against it 
I could not say how long I would increase the time for. Maybe double it?
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underfliptown
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Do you mean an additional 30 dollars? Fuck it was such a bitch to get to the store without a car... i couldn't find any with a gauge either. I think i have no choice but to just risk it with this. It's much less than ideal but I think if i heat it up to max and leave it on for 2.5 hours it should sterilize properly. I will likely have to add more water though to make sure it doesn't all evaporate.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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I'm telling you, I don't think it will work.
If you risk it, please come back and let us know so people will know in the future.
Are you in the US?
You can easily order one online.
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underfliptown
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Registered: 03/07/11
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I am in Canada. I had minor success before with just a pot and rags. I think this might just work...
Fuck i am lying to myself i am not very confident in this at all. I just don't want to go back to the store and go through the hastle of finding another one. Maybe thats the best bet though.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Order one online.
It's not incriminating to buy a pressure cooker.
And you will have something reliable.
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underfliptown
I suck and you should kill me


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Man i looked they are like 200 dollars. That's bullshit... Shit's way too expensive.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Amazon has PCs for much cheaper, look up presto pressure cookers on amazon.
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PussyFart
Retired Cultivation Extrodinaire



Registered: 04/08/12
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Loc: Orbiting Earth
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Quote:
underfliptown said: Man i looked they are like 200 dollars. That's bullshit... Shit's way too expensive.
http://www.amazon.com/Presto-01781-23-Quart-Pressure-Canner/dp/B0000BYCFU
Price: $74.00 & FREE Shipping.
--------------------
THIS HOBBY IS NOT FOR THE IMPATIENT! PLEASE BE PATIENT, DON'T BE A PATIENT! A Tale of 10 Isolates, GT Cluster Clone Monotubs, RR's Let's Grow Mushrooms DVD, SGFC(Shotgun Fruiting Chamber), Monotub Tek, Damion5050's Coir Tek, TL's Tek List, Frank's Tek List, EvilMushroom666's Pasteurization Tek, How It Should & Shouldn't Look - NEW CULTIVATORS GUIDE *** *** AFGHAN KUSH GROW LOG *** ***
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Stromrider
This must be the place


Registered: 06/02/13
Posts: 7,326
Loc: Dept of know what I'm say...
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Damn dude you don't have to buy an AA like frank! Lol
Just get you a presto. I recommend the 23 qt
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: PussyFart]
#18821598 - 09/10/13 12:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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underfliptown
I suck and you should kill me


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Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: PussyFart] 1
#18821600 - 09/10/13 12:53 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wow this is awesome. It sucks I have to go back to the store but its cool that I can still pull this off properly. I learned in my last grow that cutting corners just ends up costing more money than simply doing it right the first time.
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Stromrider
This must be the place


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Quote:
underfliptown said: Wow this is awesome. It sucks I have to go back to the store but its cool that I can still pull this off properly. I learned in my last grow that cutting corners just ends up costing more money than simply doing it right the first time.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Yeah this is one hobby where cutting corners will do more harm than anything.
You can go cheap and "macgyver style" in some areas.... but sterility in particular is one area where you cannot cut corners ever, especially with grains. I've heard of people using fractional sterilization with grains with some success, but I would never trust it personally. 15PSI for 1hr+ or bust.
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underfliptown
I suck and you should kill me


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Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: Shroomism]
#18821621 - 09/10/13 01:05 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I am just not very fond of ordering things online. Last time i ordered spores online (from spores101) they never came. I never got them, and was never reimbursed. I was pissed and ever since then its put a big chip on my shoulder. Although i successfully got MHRB online so i guess it really just depends on the vendor.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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You're not ordering spores from a cubensis spore vendor.
You're ordering a pressure cooker from amazon.com.
That is as reputable as it gets. There is no way around it.
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Mush4Brains
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Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: Stromrider]
#18821634 - 09/10/13 01:10 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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According to the questions on the site it says it will stay between 8 and 12 PSI. If you can steam grains for 8 hours, I'm sure you can go at 8-12 for a couple of hours . No harm in trying it, that's between ~235*F to ~245*F instead of 250*F.
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said: If you can steam grains for 8 hours...
Find me one success story with that. I bet you can only find one or two at most.
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Mush4Brains
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http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/14860484#14860484
That's just one, of course, but if you go through all the posts here you'll find other people who steam for eight hours with success. There is no reason why they can't be telling the truth.
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Stromrider
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Man please don't tell people this is a good idea. You'll just set them up for failure. I know you are just trying to prove a point but don't. Just don't
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Mush4Brains
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Skinty
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Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: Stromrider]
#18821681 - 09/10/13 01:32 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I made a similar "mistake" starting out...got a PC very similar to the one this guy got or identical, it was a 5.5l fresco but from UK so 
Anyway - I think it says on it 45kpa which translates to about 11.5Psi I believe. I have not got a new cooker rather I adjust PCing times. I do cakes for 90 minutes and grain for 2 hours. This isn't recommended and if I hadn't been so lazy lately I would have upgraded to a bigger and better PC.
Up till now I'm pretty certain that I have not had any contam that has been a result of not sterilizing spawn adequately - only lazy inoculation technique.
Sounds like yr exchanging it anyway so good for you buddy
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Stromrider
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I can agree with that. I was saying telling people to steam sterilize their grains was a bad idea
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Mush4Brains
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Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: Skinty]
#18821686 - 09/10/13 01:35 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wasn't suggesting that they should steam sterilize, I was just pointing out (Frank asked me to show him one time that it worked, so I showed him one time that it worked) the fact that RR can do 100lbs of Rye for 12hours up in the mountains where water boils below 212*F, you can technically steam sterilize, and if that is the case, 8-12PSI should not be a problem.
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Skinty
TOP SECRET


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Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: Stromrider]
#18821693 - 09/10/13 01:37 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeh I know psilly 
Still better to nail it first time - if only as it's annoying the whole process taking an extra half hour for every load of jars (although standard times could work just as well but don't wanna take the risk )
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Hobart Cutter
Strange


Registered: 05/06/13
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Re: new pressure cooker. [Re: Skinty]
#18822226 - 09/10/13 07:03 AM (10 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cookers that stay around 10psi work fine, even for grains. Just up the cooking time to two hours and don't stuff it too full.
I think they are called french type PCs in the normal world, because they are used for french cuisine.
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FooMan



Registered: 02/02/05
Posts: 8,957
Loc: Earth
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So you can go to tire stores and get pressure cookers in Canada, eh?
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Quick WBS Prep
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FrankHorrigan
The Inquisition



Registered: 01/04/11
Posts: 10,573
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:
Mush4Brains said: If you can steam grains for 8 hours...
Find me one success story with that. I bet you can only find one or two at most.
I don't want anecdotal evicdence M4B, I'm asking if you can find me a cultivator of limited experience who has had success with this method.
You won't find more than one or two.

Of course it can work, I've done it before in a pinch.
But it's piss-poor advice and an easily rectified situation- return crappy PC, buy decent one for a little extra.
Also you should really check the dates on those posts you link to, here is one from 2003 that is all sorts of wrong:
Quote:
SixTango said: So long as the jars are sitting on a trivot & not in the water in the bottom of the PC, it should work. You might go 120 minutes, though. 6T
This is obviously outdated. It states (incorrectly) that you should not let your jars touch the water in the PC.
Dumb advice by today's standards, I'm sure if he was around he'd agree.
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JohnnieYen
Okay



Registered: 03/15/11
Posts: 3,529
Loc: City Z
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Look on craigslist, or hit up second hand stores or flea markets.
I got an AA925 for 100$ and an AA75x for 400 on craigslist.
I doubt your 5.5L pressure cooker could hold more than 1 jar, much less get to 15 PSI. Waste of time IMO
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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My opinion on pressure cookers for what its worth.
@ 15psi, if you cannot fit at least 4-5 quart jars, it is a waste of energy. I have a 16qt presto which does 7 quarts at one cook. One thing that most of us will agree on, bigger is better. It also saves money in the effect of doing more in less time. If you get a smaller PC to save cash, you will look back and regret not spending a bit more to get a lot more. As others have stated, $$75-$$100 will get a very acceptable PC. It is not going to be an AA, but I have had no issues with presto. Just my 2 cents and the reasoning that you may feel regret later. Plus you can cook a whole chicken in a 16qt, and it makes a great stock pot for making chilli, chicken corn soup (with riveles of course), and pork! Feed your hobby, your mind and body with a proper cooker.
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Mush4Brains
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Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:
FrankHorrigan said:
Quote:
Mush4Brains said: If you can steam grains for 8 hours...
Find me one success story with that. I bet you can only find one or two at most.
I don't want anecdotal evicdence M4B, I'm asking if you can find me a cultivator of limited experience who has had success with this method.
You won't find more than one or two.

Of course it can work, I've done it before in a pinch.
But it's piss-poor advice and an easily rectified situation- return crappy PC, buy decent one for a little extra.
Also you should really check the dates on those posts you link to, here is one from 2003 that is all sorts of wrong:
Quote:
SixTango said: So long as the jars are sitting on a trivot & not in the water in the bottom of the PC, it should work. You might go 120 minutes, though. 6T
This is obviously outdated. It states (incorrectly) that you should not let your jars touch the water in the PC.
Dumb advice by today's standards, I'm sure if he was around he'd agree.
I think you were missing the point of my post, I was never advocating steam sterilization, simply pointed out that it is possible. I only provided evidence of steam sterilization working because you asked for it.
8PSI in 2003 is the same as 8PSI in 2013. EM666's post is only from a year+ ago, so over the course of 10 years the advice that a sub-15psi cooker will do just fine with extra cooking time has stayed the same. It will work for grains as long as you give them a little extra time, period.
No, a 5.5L will not hold many jars (I started with a 6qt which is ~5.6L), but you can do enough pints to do mini-monos and shoebox trays with single runs. It won't be as energy efficient as my 16qt Presto (probably the same one Whippy has), but it will work, and I don't think he needs to return it as long as he realizes he will have to cook a little longer, and won't get enough grains per run to do a full monotub. If OP is growing for strictly personal uses, the PC will work just fine for what he wants to do.
From 8 hours at 1PSI to 90 minutes at 15PSI to 70 minutes at 20PSI all work, it just is more likely to work with more consistency at higher pressures/temperatures.
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NevilleBartos
Shroomerer



Registered: 09/07/13
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Loc: London
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That's almost exactly the PC I have, and I've had considerable success from it. Mine runs at 11 psi so I boil for at least 90 minutes. Use it. It will work. Check out my gallery for proof.
-------------------- "Five dried grams is what Terrence McKenna would call a heroic dose."
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magicbroncoride
barbaric neanderthal

Registered: 05/27/13
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I have that 23 quart presto from amazon and it will do 15psi no problem and is actually really well built and worth the money.
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Rockhound
The Rockweiler



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In april I bought a mirro 92116 on amazon for $37 and change shipped, after waiting 3 days for the price to drop from $75. It does 7 qts. nicely. A few days after receiving it, a pc got detonated in boston. I haven't had any government agents inquiring about my online purchases.
This thread reminds me of this guy I knew in high school. He had these ideas he would talk about constantly, ranging from possible but inefficient, to outright impossible. He thought of me as that smart science kid, so I got to hear, and then debunk, all his ideas. Then I would get to hear his 'whatifs' until he found a new facination. And this ONE time he kinda proved me wrong. I broadened my thinking a little bit that day.
-------------------- Rocks speak to me, and tell me this: The Hell Creek formation is a gigantic slab of rocks that covers several western states. It contains an account of the dinosaurs' demise. In the late Cretaceous period, the first Cannabis species appear, and soon after, all the non-bird dinosaurs disappeared. Obviously, marihuana killed the dinosaurs. That giant meteor that smacked the yucatan peninsula right afterwards, coincidence.
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said: It won't be as energy efficient as my 16qt Presto (probably the same one Whippy has)
Presto has been making them pretty much identical for decades. Mine was made in 74' best I guess from the stamp inside the lid. It is bright yellow and it is heavy duty cast aluminum. I don't know what they make them out of now, but I'm sure there are differences in manufacture.
Yes 8-12 psi might work (though doubtful read on). You may have to make more than a few trial runs to document how many hours it takes to guarantee bacteria etc do not survive. If it takes 90min @ 15 psi, it may take 120 minutes+ at 8-12psi. The jiggler on this unit is said to vent @ 12 psi down to 8psi. This sort of "decompression" could result in dried grains. You will drop from 242f down to 233f in a short instant. It may be impossible to keep grains properly hydrated with these conditions. Water evaporates from the grain when this happens.
It is no different than pulling the jiggler from a larger unit. The larger units hold at 15 psi, and vent over that. This is creates a constant pressure/temp.
My concern with long lengths of cooking with such a small PC with this behavior, is that it could run out of water. It is venting out steam every time it jiggles...lots of it. 12 down to 8 is quite a good deal of volume and heat. Everything about trying to make the best out of the improper tool is a recipe for failure. This is simply not even close to optimal. It might work, but for the headache involved, you would do best to get something more inline with the hobby. There are very good reasons why we use the units we do.
*Edit*
For science: My statement that this unit vents @ 12 psi down to 8 is directly from the specs q/a from the provided link.
Edited by HypnotoadCroaked (09/10/13 06:19 PM)
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Mush4Brains
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Well at least my Presto should be around in 40 years . Except now they're made in China , so maybe not.
You're right, the decompression could cause an issue, but as long as you have the right temperature on the stove shouldn't you be able to prevent this decompression?
Yes, you will need trial runs, but there is no reason if kept between 8-12 PSI you can most definitely sterilize grains.
If you keep your stove on high while PCing, you can easily boil off your water, that is why once you reach pressure you turn your stove down, no?
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said: You're right, the decompression could cause an issue, but as long as you have the right temperature on the stove shouldn't you be able to prevent this decompression?
Yes, you will need trial runs, but there is no reason if kept between 8-12 PSI you can most definitely sterilize grains.
If you keep your stove on high while PCing, you can easily boil off your water, that is why once you reach pressure you turn your stove down, no?
How do you know you are between 8 and 12 psi? There is no gauge to speak of. Sure you can back off the heat, but then how do you know how much pressure you are at. Every time the blow-off drops pressure, your grains are drying out. If it cannot maintain constant, readable and predictable pressure it is not close to optimal.
You have less water in the pot, and more time to waste it. The chance for failure in that situation is greater. 2 inches of water in this unit and this unit is 9 inches wide. 3.14* (4.5*4.5) *2 = 127 cubic inches......OR approx half gallon
(Pi times radius Squared Times height in inches is volume divided by 231 cubic inches)
A 16 quart presto is 12 inches wide 3.14* (6*6) *2 = 226 cubic inches or approx a whole gallon.
So a presto 16 quart with 2 inches of water holds twice as much water, and will run quite a bit less time. I don't know if it even possible for the "Canadian Tire model" to not run itself dry. I have never used a half gallon of water up, but I've never run my pc over 2 hours. This one may require 2.5+ hours @ ????? Psi.
The unit in question is listed at 6 inches tall. A ball quart jar with a lid is 6 1/2. You can probably fit 3-4 pint jars in this unit. You can do more with a cheaper stock pot and PF tek. One can get a huge stock pot, brf, verm, and jars for a similar cost, and make much more colonized spawn in less time. This alone is reason enough to take it back. It was purchased based only on cost, and there are better options. It certainly should not have been purchased because it was a perfect size for our hobby.
Quote:
Whippy said: Everything about trying to make the best out of the improper tool is a recipe for failure. This is simply not even close to optimal. It might work, but for the headache involved, you would do best to get something more inline with the hobby. There are very good reasons why we use the units we do.
I am not saying that it will not work at all. I am saying that it is "not even close to optimal". Its a moot point to argue a hypothetical. The unit price is listed as $49.99. FWIW as a pressure cooker for food, this is overpriced. For $20-30 more You can do MUCH MUCH more, more efficiently and predictably with a real pressure cooker.
I wouldn't use this for anything, certainly not for trying to sterilize grain. The reviews alone should identify durability.
So to recap my reasoning:
inability to note actual pressure Possibility to dry out grain due to decompression at temps over boiling Inefficient size for hobby Possibility to run dry on long runs.
There is a bit that COULD go wrong. I would think that grains drying out would be the most prevalent issue.
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Mush4Brains
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Can't argue with all of that, there is a more likely chance that something could go wrong. I will say that I don't have any gauges on any of my cookers, so I have to trust the weight/toggle.
I would go with Frank and Whippy here and try to exchange this for a bigger model at Canadiantire, or order one online if you can find free or cheap shipping.
However, I will still stand by the fact that an 8PSI cooker can cook grains perfectly fine.
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HypnotoadCroaked
Retired, but will check MSGs

Registered: 01/05/13
Posts: 1,168
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Quote:
Mush4Brains said:
However, I will still stand by the fact that an 8PSI cooker can cook grains perfectly fine.

Id agree with that statement 100%. If you can maintain constant, readable, and predictable pressure, it can certainly be done. This unit offers none of that in a small package with a disproportionate price.
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Mush4Brains
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I thought I had read through all of the questions but missed the height of it . But every thorough discussion like this will help people in the future.
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underfliptown
I suck and you should kill me


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Well I am convinced.
Although I am almost tempted to experiment with this PC for grains for the sake of science. I just checked how many jars fit: 4...
Disappointing. If i didn't need the money to get the good one I would for sure experiment with this. I'll do it later anyways, I am kind of interested is seeing who is right with actual evidence.
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